New RPA bases, any updates?

[Nobody]

Last update from Apr 16 said candidate locations would be identified by summer 16.( https://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/719458/af-releases-criteria-for-basing-new-rpa-units.aspx)

Does anyone here know anything new or is it still shutup and color?  With the first few batches of 18xers ready to punch soon I thought maybe there would be good sourced rumors as to what to expect.

[BFM this]

Nope.

Too early for predictions?  In 2020 there will be another round of CPIP, which will reflect back on AF, GAO, and Rand studies published in 2008, 2012, 2014, and...2016.  And around we will go!

[Clark Griswold]

From another thread, it was brought up to spread the love from Guam to Puerto Rico to eliminate the needs for mid-shifts.  The article says you have to have another flying mission there already, to be considered for these new bases, open up: 

Anderson, Hickam, C-Springs (associate unit), Ft. Worth (tenant unit on the NAS), Dobbins (new or moved Reserve unit), Shaw (new or moved unit with the possibility of dual qual aggressor AT-38 for a long tour there) and a new unit in Puerto Rico.  All of these new or moved units should be pulled from Creech, it is a cancer eating at the morale of the AF.

Follow on - for the new wing/groups at a bases without an MQ-9 presence currently, select Beale and Moody for new operations.

Basing for the RPA community needs to follow a few guidelines:

QOL is huge as the job can be soul crushing and causes low retention.

Geographical spread is important to cover the 24 hour Z day without having to operate from 2100 - 0500 local.

Sovereign US soil is probably to the best solution (not the only) to avoid the controversy of RPA kinetic operations.

 

Edited September 4, 2016 by Clark Griswold

[guineapigfury]

The easy fix is Guam and Hawaii.  Both US soil and offer sufficient time zone spread to avoid mids.  All we'd need to make this work is a couple of buildings and some GCS's.  "Deploy" people there for 6-9 weeks a pop and we don't even need to stand up new squadrons.  This could get done in 6 months if the Air Force actually wanted to solve the problem.

[ShavedDogsAss]

The easy fix is Guam and Hawaii.  Both US soil and offer sufficient time zone spread to avoid mids.  All we'd need to make this work is a couple of buildings and some GCS's.  "Deploy" people there for 6-9 weeks a pop and we don't even need to stand up new squadrons.  This could get done in 6 months if the Air Force actually wanted to solve the problem.

Sadly, none of these arguments weighs into the calculus.

My $$$:

I'd expect DM for the active flying. (Great ranges and ready restricted airspace access, along with tenant guard DGS on-site)

MCE will go to Langley. Huge DGS on-site, with the added bonus of political theater whenever you need it.

Yes, they are new locations, but QoL or shift-work timing would not overpower airspace, politics, and DGS self-aggrandizement.

[Clark Griswold]

[guineapigfury]

10 minutes ago, ShavedDogsAss said:

 

Sadly, none of these arguments weighs into the calculus.

My $$$:

I'd expect DM for the active flying. (Great ranges and ready restricted airspace access, along with tenant guard DGS on-site)

MCE will go to Langley. Huge DGS on-site, with the added bonus of political theater whenever you need it.

Yes, they are new locations, but QoL or shift-work timing would not overpower airspace, politics, and DGS self-aggrandizement.

 

I expect you're correct.  The last thing we need is another CONUS desert location, so that's probably what we'll get.

[Clark Griswold]

On September 4, 2016 at 4:51 PM, guineapigfury said:

I expect you're correct.  The last thing we need is another CONUS desert location, so that's probably what we'll get.

I wish I could refute your prediction but if you look at the track record of the AF and in the criteria for basing FTUs (remote, desolate and likely to induce binge drinking) that is probably it.  

I would humbly offer for discussion and suggestion Kirkland AFB, NM for a schoolhouse and MCE campus with LRE and MX on aircraft training done at an out base, in my plan I would offer an off site location at KGNT, Grants-Milan airport.  A little shorter than 8k (7100) but that could be fixed / waived and the students (11X types that will continue to get assigned to RPAs) get to fly a GA aircraft to LRE events (only 50 NM away), 18Xs are along for the ride too.  KGNT is well away from the Class C airspace and human civilization but still close to the ranges.  Kirkland has plenty of playmates for the syllabus to train with and while Albequerque is not perfect, it beats the F out of Clovis.

QOL improved by decent location, low cost manned flying mission attached at least to the FTU, FTU collected with other MWS's and Ranges for training - not perfect location but not bad either.   

Edited September 6, 2016 by Clark Griswold

[Nobody]

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2016/jun/24/creech-departure-langley-afb-promoted-as-home-for/

 

This is the most current info I could find.

[Mark1]

32 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

I wish I could refute your prediction but if you look at the track record of the AF and in the criteria for basing FTUs (remote, desolate and likely to induce binge drinking) that is probably it.  

I would humbly offer for discussion and suggestion Kirkland AFB, NM for a schoolhouse and MCE campus with LRE and MX on aircraft training done at an out base, in my plan I would offer an off site location at KGNT, Grants-Milan airport.  A little shorter than 8k (7100) but that could be fixed / waived and the students (11X types that will continue to get assigned to RPAs) get to fly a GA aircraft to LRE events (only 50 NM away), 18Xs are along for the ride too.  KGNT is well away from the Class C airspace and human civilization but still close to the ranges.  Kirkland has plenty of playmates for the syllabus to train with and while Albequerque is not perfect, it beats the F out of Clovis.

QOL improved by decent location, low cost manned flying mission attached at least to the FTU, FTU collected with other MWS's and Ranges for training - not perfect location but not bad either.   

And if they moved to Kirkland all the squadron members could get a pallet of 3 lb. Chunk Light Albacore Tuna cans for less than $599!  You can't get that shit at Creech without paying to freight it out there.  That's a big QoL boost. 

[Nobody]

https://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/938315/af-narrows-locations-considered-for-basing-new-rpa-units.aspx

 

Praise Jesus

[nsplayr]

Those are definitely some upgrades.  Now let's talk spreading out more across time zones and they'll really be on to something.  About 15 years late but hey, better late than never I guess!

[Clark Griswold]

4 hours ago, Nobody said:

https://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/938315/af-narrows-locations-considered-for-basing-new-rpa-units.aspx

Praise Jesus

Since Star Trek is turning 50 and this is decent list, Spock says...

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

Those are definitely some upgrades.  Now let's talk spreading out more across time zones and they'll really be on to something.  About 15 years late but hey, better late than never I guess!

What you want your cake and eat it too?  

Every time zone on US soil with a Droid base, a GA companion aircraft for brief escapes to dance the skies on laughter silvered wings... that's not that hard to do Air Force.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Clark Griswold

[BFM this]

First off, the AF is telegraphing its punch: which base clearly shows that the CPIP executive summary was skimmed briefly before the entire report was fed into the shredder in keeping with the highest of AF tradition?
The MCE base is going to be Offutt.

The second base will be Eglin, to take advantage of the ranges. Yes, Slingblade would correctly point out that you now have two locations in the same time zone, against all common sense, reason, and published conclusions of the CPIP, to which the AF will reply:


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[Clark Griswold]

Not an unlikely outcome but one most hope.

Referencing the CPIP and some of it's main points with humble suggestions:

https://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/633740/acc-charts-path-for-remote-aircrews-units.aspx

- Approximately double the number of RPA flying squadrons.

Concur - do that in the ARC with dual qual waivers galore, spreading the love and offer AD positions to give new choices to those assimilated by the Borg.
- Create a new wing to normalize organizational and command and control structures relative to other weapon systems.
- Standardize the squadron, group and wing structure.

Concur
- Assign RPA units in new locations to potentially include overseas locations.

Concur:  Recommend a new base in Poland, expand in Sigonella or to Aviano, and in the Pacific if we can just get the tip in, Australia.
- Decrease the heavy burden of persistent in garrison combat operations by increasing RPA manning and associated resources by 2,500-3,500 Airmen.
- Define career tracks for officer and enlisted RPA operators and maintainers.
- Study the promotion and professional military education selection rates for RPA officers.
- Study the feasibility of a single specialty code for RPA maintenance personnel.

Concur
- Streamline processes to better enable Reserve component forces to support the mission

Concur x 2 - offer the mission with either dual qual or easy transition back and forth between manned and RPA quals (like 3 year tours then in-house requal in the manned platform) and there are a lot of ARC units / members that would direct Droids

[HU&W]

Follow the sun ops is dead, so time zones don't matter one bit.  Dwell was the selected COA, and honestly it makes more sense from a resourcing standpoint as something that would be actually achievable (https://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/717598/air-force-approves-rpa-initiatives.aspx).  

[Clark Griswold]

41 minutes ago, HU&W said:

Follow the sun ops is dead, so time zones don't matter one bit.  Dwell was the selected COA, and honestly it makes more sense from a resourcing standpoint as something that would be actually achievable (https://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/717598/air-force-approves-rpa-initiatives.aspx).  

Pardon my ignorance but what do you mean by dwell in the selected COA?

[HU&W]

2 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

Pardon my ignorance but what do you mean by dwell in the selected COA?

2:1 combat to dwell time.  Units will spend 1/3 of the year in a noncombat training status.   

From the cited article: "ACC is expanding the training pipeline for operators, creating a more robust force and decreasing the current operational tempo. A combat operations-to-dwell ratio of 2:1 will provide Airmen predictable schedules, improve work-life balance, enable further professional development, offer increased training opportunities, and ultimately improve readiness, according to Col. Jeffry Long, ACC's director of CPIP."

[Clark Griswold]

1 minute ago, HU&W said:

2:1 combat to dwell time.  Units will spend 1/3 of the year in a noncombat training status.   

From the cited article: "ACC is expanding the training pipeline for operators, creating a more robust force and decreasing the current operational tempo. A combat operations-to-dwell ratio of 2:1 will provide Airmen predictable schedules, improve work-life balance, enable further professional development, offer increased training opportunities, and ultimately improve readiness, according to Col. Jeffry Long, ACC's director of CPIP."

"I see" said the blind man.  Thanks.

Maybe that is better from the resourcing infrastructure cost but I would still argue for a mostly distributed strategy.  Span the time zones and try if you can not only for QOL but to seed the base for Congressional support / friends to the RPA enterprise (if it is ever needed).  

There's the Operational strategy of not being concentrated and vulnerable with all eggs in one basket, the HR strategy of offering many basing options for QOL (homesteading for example) to encourage retention in the career field and the Political strategy of more congressional districts / senators having a base with an RPA operation there - all politics is local; it may cost a bit more but ultimately it is not always a cost minimization problem.

[HU&W]

In this case, resourcing is more than just a question of cost.  That said, I think the real value will come from downtime for training and reconstitution.

[Clark Griswold]

3 hours ago, HU&W said:

In this case, resourcing is more than just a question of cost.  That said, I think the real value will come from downtime for training and reconstitution.

Hopefully so.  I am just repressing memories of mid-shifts and would do anything (including spending millions as a taxpayers) to avoid them.

Just a suggestion for basing RPAs to maintain AD CAPs:

Anderson, Hickam, Elmendorf, Vandenberg, Beale, Nellis, Creech & Cannon (unfortunately too much invested), Kirtland, Tinker, Columbus, MacDill, Robins, Langley, Puerto Rico (Ramey AFB)

[BFM this]

Just a suggestion for basing RPAs to maintain AD CAPs:

Anderson, Hickam, Elmendorf, Vandenberg, Beale, Nellis, Creech & Cannon (unfortunately too much invested), Kirtland, Tinker, Columbus, MacDill, Robins, Langley, Puerto Rico (Ramey AFB)

Yeah, CPIP had all of those suggestions as well. Obviously, they didn't make the cut. Or criteria. Or something. Because, you know, Offutt, of course!


...Kirtland? Wtf is wrong with you, man?


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[Clark Griswold]

8 minutes ago, BFM this said:

...Kirtland? Wtf is wrong with you, man?

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Got to give a pound of flesh sometimes to the AF... ABQ isn't bad and if the AF has a giant boner to keep the RPA enterprise basically HQ'd in the SW of America for remote training areas then Kirtland is not a bad place for it: town is adequate, snow skiing in the winter, decent scenery... don't live there but have passed thru a few times for business and this seems like something the AF could be persuaded to supporting...

 Vegas... maybe but as an FTU location that would probably go over like a fart in church with the shoe clerks for all the distractions possible.  Don't get me wrong, if Clark Griswold was allowed to decide this arbitrarily I'd reward those RPA folk with an awesome location for an FTU / spiritual HQ as a consolation prize since a lot of them were non-vols.

[guineapigfury]

The only consolation prize this nonvol is looking for is a DD214.

[Clark Griswold]

2 hours ago, guineapigfury said:

The only consolation prize this nonvol is looking for is a DD214.