Was flying for the Air Force worth it?

[sqwatch]

Nailed it brick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ram]

The best self-test comes when I ask myself what I'd tell my kids.

No way would I advise them to pursue active duty life as a pilot, but I would whole-heartedly support the ANG.

There are just too many damn variables today, and the 10-year commitment isn't going away (especially with rumors of its increase). Variables exist in the ANG, too, but nothing like the fvcked-up shenanigans we've seen in the last 6-9 years in the active duty USAF.

Honestly, if asked about a mil career by my kids, this would be my advice: Go to a great school on an ROTC scholarship, major in a STEM field, then go be a contracting officer for 4 years and get out as a young captain to make bank at a defense contractor.

My kids' father got real lucky so far with his flying career. Couldn't dodge the school bullet but I am walking away with great experiences and the ability to speak an Asian language, AND I'm going back to my F-16 mistress.

I am the exception, not the rule. I would not expect the next generation's experience to be as good as mine. They'll be too damn busy turning red dots into green dots and remodeling the bathrooms to accommodate the 7 different "genders" in the squadron.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[matmacwc]

Must be going to Shaw

[Ram]

Must be going to Shaw

Who, me?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[matmacwc]

Yes, also known as ground zero of anti fighter pilot culture 

[Ram]

Yes, also known as ground zero of anti fighter pilot culture 

Gotcha.

Naw, AFPC actually did something that made sense: they're sending a Korean-speaking Viper pilot to a squadron in Korea.

Knowing AFPC's track record, I was expecting Spang.

HARRUMPH to actually getting my first choice.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[scoobs]

Has the AF really changed, or is it perception over time? The famous "letter" came out in Vietnam and is still relevant.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[mcbush]

23 minutes ago, scoobs said:

Has the AF really changed, or is it perception over time? The famous "letter" came out in Vietnam and is still relevant.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

Every pilot on these boards knows the answer to that question.

[matmacwc]

Harrumph!  And sent you to the best one!

Edited September 26, 2016 by matmacwc

[brickhistory]

Even non-pilots can as well.

Careerism has always existed.  It always will.

"Fair-haired," "golden boy," "early identified" types have always existed.  Always will.

However, the deliberate destruction of the squadron has occurred since the 1990s.

The focus on everything but the mission has occurred since the 1990s.

Look at the number of GOs today with the size of our miniscule force compared with WWII, Korea, or even your Vietnam example.

Those on the spot, usually the best able and having the most SA on what the problem is and how to rectify it, now are neutered and must ask "Mother [insert your non-gender specific noun here] may I" before doing anything.  And so on until at least a GO, if not a several button type is reached.

Yes, it, the Air Force has changed.

And people who wanted to be a part of the older version are voting with their feet.

The new CSAF is the first to publicly identify this.

So they've known for years if not decades, but no one would do anything about it because they would have been fired/retired.

Not exactly "service before self" behavior, IMHO.

[Ram]

Harrumph!  And sent you to the best one!

I even have my hat ready...

Songtan Sally 2016!




Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[matmacwc]

Psst, lets go

[Stitch]

17 hours ago, Ram said:

 

I even have my hat ready...

Songtan Sally 2016!




Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

That's fucking awesome.  However, with my luck it'd say "Make A-Town Great Again"... But would still wear it with pride! 

 

[war007afa]

On 9/25/2016 at 10:20 PM, brickhistory said:

Even non-pilots can as well.

Careerism has always existed.  It always will.

"Fair-haired," "golden boy," "early identified" types have always existed.  Always will.

However, the deliberate destruction of the squadron has occurred since the 1990s.

The focus on everything but the mission has occurred since the 1990s.

Shack!

It goes back to the fracturing of the service. Fingers has it right: the squadron used to be everything. You never had a NEED to go outside the squadron save for a few instances. Each squadron had a personnelist, someone to handle pay vouchers, even MX reported to the same CC who owned the jets and the mission sets. 

I remember going to work with my dad and seeing pilots and maintainers in the same offices working towards the same goal. If a line didn't go, there wasn't quibbling over who owned the failure: the answer was clear, the SQ!

To bad we couldn't periodically autosave every once in a while and realize the unintended consequences of the path the service set out on. 

[ThreeHoler]

Mx reorg 7!


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[LoneStar]

It has been a while since I posted anything - but if you guys don't mind helping me out with a project I'm working on with some guys from the CAF.  Help me out and feel free to complain and tell me to pound sand. I have 2217 days left on my commitment, I think you know where I stand.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/pilotshortage

[ClearedHot]

On 9/25/2016 at 0:00 AM, matmacwc said:

I would tell my kids to do it.

I would not.

[Day Man]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I would not.

2...don't have kids that I know of, but if it came up, I would steer them towards the Coast Guard.

I'm willing to bet I was Blue Falconed by Big Blue harder than anyone else here. Was it worth it for me? You bet. I have experiences, friends, and lessons learned from active duty that 99.69% of the population will never get the opportunity to receive. Could I watch my theoretical kids go through the asshattery? Fuck no.

[HU&W]

AF's a great springboard to life/career.  That said, I don't think I'd encourage my kids to do anything requiring more than a 4-year commitment, sadly including my own job.

[ViperStud]

4 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I would not.

3. If I had kids in high school now I would steer them away. It'll be many years until I have kids in that position and things can change over a decade or two. Maybe by that military will recover to a point where I would be happy to see them go in that direction, but F-NO if it were now. 

[Prozac]

On 9/25/2016 at 7:20 PM, brickhistory said:

 

Not exactly "service before self" behavior, IMHO.

Ding ding ding! It is now imbedded in the culture that you should be far more concerned about your next promotion, assignment, and/or decoration than you should be about the mission.  If you aren't, you will fall behind.  The "speech" from one's CC these days almost always consists of something like: "You're a good pilot.  So are Bob and Sally and Billy.  In fact, when it comes to the actual job, you're all pretty much the same in the eyes of the people who matter.  So, let's talk about your roadmap to the vaunted SQ/CC position and beyond.  To get ahead, check box X, then Y, then Z (nevermind that none of those are mission related. The mission will take care of itself.)  If you do this, you must be a good officer and will be rewarded for your stalwart dedication to the self licking ice cream cone."  I have heard this speech or something very close to it from the majority of my SQ/CCs and above and every time I hear it my heart sinks a little more.  I'm convinced that the majority of the leadership thinks in this manner and this is why no one seems to be able to take a wholistic view of how to get the USAF where it needs to be.  They simply aren't motivated to think beyond the next three years because that's the way we're all told we're supposed to think.  Until there is a dramatic shift in this way of thinking, I surely would not recommend the AF to my children.  

[Sprkt69]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Ding ding ding! It is now imbedded in the culture that you should be far more concerned about your next promotion, assignment, and/or decoration than you should be about the mission.  If you aren't, you will fall behind.  The "speech" from one's CC these days almost always consists of something like: "You're a good pilot.  So are Bob and Sally and Billy.  In fact, when it comes to the actual job, you're all pretty much the same in the eyes of the people who matter.  So, let's talk about your roadmap to the vaunted SQ/CC position and beyond.  To get ahead, check box X, then Y, then Z (nevermind that none of those are mission related. The mission will take care of itself.)  If you do this, you must be a good officer and will be rewarded for your stalwart dedication to the self licking ice cream cone."  I have heard this speech or something very close to it from the majority of my SQ/CCs and above and every time I hear it my heart sinks a little more.  I'm convinced that the majority of the leadership thinks in this manner and this is why no one seems to be able to take a wholistic view of how to get the USAF where it needs to be.  They simply aren't motivated to think beyond the next three years because that's the way we're all told we're supposed to think.  Until there is a dramatic shift in this way of thinking, I surely would not recommend the AF to my children.  

And that is why the SS Big Blue is currently sinking yet the leadership is still acting like things are pretty darn good as the rest of us are jumping ship

[Clark Griswold]

I have kids but not old enough that this is an issue, if I was giving advice to nieces, nephews, etc... I would still recommend it but I would have to pull no punches on the bullshit and have them decide after hearing my nuanced encouragement.  

For every emasculating moment of insanity I can usually balance it with a recollection of the thrill of flying military aircraft in actual operations or in some interesting way, along with other actual military activities or duties that gave me pride in service or were just cool.

It's math, this graph is how I think about my AD career, at some point I hit the top and no matter how much effort I put in the benefit (personal/professional satisfaction, respect for BB, etc...) just started to taper off...

I've been AD and am now Guard, I would tell them do what you can to get a Guard/Reserve slot, then look at AD AF, if you want to be an AF pilot.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Clark Griswold

[Lawman]

I have a 1 year old son... and plans are in the works to have another something in the coming years.

If and when my son(s) or future daughter tells me he/she/they want(s) to join the Army and be like his dad.... I may hold them under water until they change their mind. Specifically if they intended to enlist in the Army so they can "earn their way" later on I would definitely water board my child until that mech/civil engineering degree looked like a better idea.

Or I could just have the pull everything out of the garage and write down what was in it... then throw away the list and make them do it again. After a couple of incidents of that, they may understand exactly why not all the years of service their dad did is accurately represented in the plaques and pictures hanging in the "Me room."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dream big]

Go guard/reserve...seriously!

you still get to fly military airplanes, you still get to serve your country, all without the added bullshit (depending on the unit.)

Yes guard units have their own issues but generally as a military pilot who actually likes to fly and eventually instruct you will be much happier.