Was flying for the Air Force worth it?

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

Definitely worth it, would do it again. There's a lot of bullshit, but I'm also pretty sure there's more bullshit in the medical field especially as a doctor. Probably more pay too, but I'll tell you what... we don't work 28 hour shifts as an Air Force pilot. I need my goddamn 12 hours of crew rest.

[Guest]

we don't work 28 hour shifts as an Air Force pilot.

Yeah, thankfully augmented days can only last 24 hours.


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[sqwatch]

No, but ignorance is bliss. If you've never flown on the mil side, you almost certainly don't know or fully appreciate what you're missing. Lots of guys are happy just to get airborne, beat up the local pattern, and have lunch somewhere different every weekend. 

I enjoy GA flying as much as I do mil flying. It's relaxing and my kids think it's cool as hell.


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[Razor666]

Bro,

Young dude here compared to these gray beards. I "DID" the whole Air Force thing. Academy grad, ENJJPT grad and all that queep. On paper it looks awesome and those are my quals. Bomber dude who has done the mission. If I could do it all again, I would have gone to the Guard and got picked up to fly the plane I wanted to fly and been in an awesome command that doesn't deal with the active duty bullshit of green dot and queep. Guard/Reserve literally scoffs Active Duty bullshit. My Guard bros at UPT had the time of their lives because they knew no matter how good or bad they did, they were going to fly X aircraft right out of UPT and go to a sweet unit. It is honestly ridiculous now at how terrible the environment is in the active duty Air Force right now and hence you see 99% of pilots punching to get out of the AD and go fly for the Majors (and make twice of what you make as an AD Pilot right off the bat) and don't have to deal with the nonsense. Plus if you go AD it is all luck and timing. You could get a sweet gig or be completely shafted into a plane and location you don't want to be in for 10 years because you can't leave because they are critically manned. 

I see where these older dudes are coming from though. 20 years ago the Air Force was awesome! It was lead by warriors who trained warrior and was focused getting our mission done. Nowadays you have shoe clerks who feel that they are no longer in the support roll of the dudes down range and get all butthurt with rules and when they are not held in such high esteem as a pilot. IE Chiefs down range yelling at dudes their PT shirt wasn't tucked in or that it was too sweaty. True story, I was there.  

So BLUF or TLDR. Go to med school (make bank, meet awesome and smart chicks in your career field, live where you want to live and do what you want to do without asking for permission) and when you are done with med school since its easier to do while you are young and single or just young. Then go rush an awesome guard unit and get your adrenaline fix and dream of flying fulfilled there with some of the most experienced warriors in the world. 

[nsplayr]

Some quick counter-points, just to cut down on the hyperbole:

1 hour ago, Razor666 said:

If I could do it all again, I would have gone to the Guard and got picked up to fly the plane I wanted to fly and been in an awesome command that doesn't deal with the active duty bullshit of green dot and queep.

Let it be said that statistically, it is much easier to get a pilot slot by going to the Academy than by cold rushing Guard units as an off-the-street guy.  Going straight to flying in the Guard is what I would recommend to young guys as well, but I also mention that this route often includes a detour as an E in the unit while you go to college so you can build up the type of relationships typically required to be hired in the first place.

1 hour ago, Razor666 said:

It is honestly ridiculous now at how terrible the environment is in the active duty Air Force right now and hence you see 99% of pilots punching to get out of the AD and go fly for the Majors (and make twice of what you make as an AD Pilot right off the bat) and don't have to deal with the nonsense.

A) The exit rate is obviously not 99%, but you know that.  B) An O-4 on flight pay at any location in the United States makes more than first year airline pay.  Your pay potential is much higher at the airlines and you catch back up and exceed AD pay quickly, but don't pretend like you don't have to take an initial pay cut going from AD to the airlines. C) Everywhere has nonsense, you sometimes get to choose your flavor and even more rarely, the amount.

1 hour ago, Razor666 said:

20 years ago the Air Force was awesome! It was lead by warriors who trained warrior and was focused getting our mission done. 

20 years ago was 1996 for those of us who can do math.  Are you seriously saying that the USAF of 1996 was led by more "warriors" than today?  By what metric?  The most senior dudes back then like the CSAF took part in Vietnam, but the average O-6 of 1996 likely did not or did so very briefly.  Today's average O-6 has had the opportunity to see combat time in Afghanistan/Iraq/Libya/Syria/GWOT et al, and that opportunity has been sustained unlike almost any other conflict in our nation's history.

I'll give you that today's leaders are not exactly Moses leading us to the Promised Land by virtue of their occasional dips into CTZE zones and that a Viper doing NTISR over Afghanistan isn't the same as running an F-4 over North Vietnam, but I'm just trying to call out some obvious fallacies in your argument.

//break break//

For reference against my advice below, I am an '07 year group AFSOC CSO currently in the Guard after doing AD, so YMMV considerably.

My answer to the OP is that flying for the Air Force was absolutely worth it for me and I'd do it all over again mostly the same way.  I flew with great people, made some humble but tangible contributions to the nation's security and efforts to combat global terrorist organizations, and was paid well and learned a lot while I was at it.  Many of my civilian friends from high school and college have nice lives and careers, but their answer to, "So...what have you been up to for the last 10 years?" isn't nearly as good as mine.

My career luck and timing was good in once sense (missed that whole "huge recession thing" while I was suckling Uncle Sugar's teet), but bad in others (I left active duty frustrated and somewhat burned out after 8 deployments and being sent on an assignment that I had 7-day opt'd...not what I was expecting).

Learning to be as stoic as you can about life was helpful...control what you can, including how you react to the things you can't control.

On the back side now with 2 years mostly in the civilian world under my belt, I'm looking forward to getting back into the fight via my new home in the Guard and I have a better appreciation for the idea that things have a way of working themselves out exactly the way they were supposed to.

BL: Decide for yourself whether you'd rather heal the sick or fly, fight and win, and then give one of those your 100%.  Talk to both doctors and pilots in real life and used their advice to inform your decision.  Good luck!

[matmacwc]

#1.  What he said

#2. Shut up Nav

 

love you Ns 

[Bobby]

#1.  What he said

#2. Shut up Nav

 

love you Ns 

Hahaha. Big "2" for #2. Beat me to it!


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[HuggyU2]

Was it worth my 28 years of service?

Yes.  

Would I do it again?

Yes.  

Edited September 22, 2016 by HuggyU2

[ATIS]

Fly Navy instead, chicks dig the "whites".

https://www.med.navy.mil/sites/nmotc/nami/Pages/WelcomeAboardNAMI.aspx

https://www.navy.mil/view_image.asp?id=225372

 

ATIS

[HuggyU2]

12 minutes ago, ATIS said:

Fly Navy instead, chicks dig the "whites".

 

ATIS, you guys really do impress the ladies in Singapore and Thailand with those whites.  And your bar act.

But, I've got bad news for you...

They look like hot chicks, but they are really guys.   Sorry.  

[viper154]

As a young guy that non vol'd to RPAs straight out of UPT I would probably do it again. Just being able to fly for a year in military jets was fing awesome, and I've met people that will be life long friends. RPAs can and do suck, but there are good days you go home and see shit on the news you did/participated in to kill bad guys or save the world, and that's kinda cool. The hope that I will get to fly again keeps me going. The B/S and queep do get old quick. CBTs, SAPR, shoe clerks being butt hurt about doing their job, or you having to do there job for them, paperwork for days, the list goes on. Go guard, do both your dreams, profit.  

[ATIS]

33 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

ATIS, you guys really do impress the ladies in Singapore and Thailand with those whites.  And your bar act.

But, I've got bad news for you...

They look like hot chicks, but they are really guys.   Sorry.  

Singapore not so much. 

Thailand on the other hand...your internal "Bitchin Betty" should be on full tilt the entire time you are BOG in that AOR (drunk or sober). 

One of my plane captains came back post portcall with a black-ish eye/scratches on the face.  I asked how he got it...he just pointed to his Adam Apple.  Nuff said. 

Break Break

To the OP:

Flight Docs are truly gold in the Navy.  You might want to give it a look.  Besides being cool (I never met a douche flight doc)...they also bring IV bags on cross country/airshow trips so you can rehydrate under the plane after sampling the local adult malt beverage(s) the night (and into the morning) before.  You never let a Doc buy his/her on drinks on the road....never.

Best of luck with your decision...listen to your gut. 

Huggy....you nailed (STS) this O-club whites wearing Naval Aviator.  You all beeeoootch about wearing your blues here on the boards...but we Navy guys couldn't wait until Friday (or Wednesday night in San Diego) to put on our whites and head to the club. (Tap your sarc meter folks if it's sticking or INOP).

ATIS

[herkbum]

#1.  What he said

#2. Shut up Nav

 

love you Ns 

We're glad to have him. Just need to get him off to trng.


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[Marco]

4 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

ATIS, you guys really do impress the ladies in Singapore and Thailand with those whites.  And your bar act.

But, I've got bad news for you...

They look like hot chicks, but they are really guys.   Sorry.  

Since when has that stopped a drunk sailor?

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[matmacwc]

1 hour ago, herkbum said:

 

We're glad to have him. Just need to get him off to trng.


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I think you got a good one, just a bit of a lefty.

[scoobs]

Short answer, yes.  I’ve absolutely loved flying for the AF.  I wouldn’t trade it for the world.  The flying has been incredible, but more satisfying than the flying has been the people; being part of a brotherhood. 

Side note, to offer a different perspective on the Guard/ARC, here’s some additional considerations:

1.  Guys are saying (or implying) if you join the Guard/ARC, you know what airframe you’ll be flying and where you’ll live.  Ok.  …Maybe.  Right?  Some units/missions are more stable than others….there are lots of politics involved.  But many, many units change airframes, move location, or close entirely.  There are units that have done all 3 of those in just the last decade.  Just something to consider.

2.  An enormous advantage that AD has over Guard/ARC is the opportunity for change and to live in several different places, especially overseas.  Additionally, there’s opportunity to switch airframe/mission, and ……in relatively rare cases, to do incredibly cool exchanges.  ....And in many cases, you get to do those things and then come back.  I’ve known several guys that flew Harriers or Tornado’s for the RAF/GAF.  I’ve got a buddy flying Trainers in Argentina.  I’ve got tons of buddies that have gone to language school; one guy for Olmstead to study in Brazil.  I know a guy that got selected for the “Prestigious Captain’s PhD Program.”  That dude is going to earn a PhD, from an ivy league school, on the Air Force’s time and dime.  Others have done ALO tours and earned their Airborne wings.  I’ve got tons of buddies that have Tx’d to the F-35 and the Viper in the middle or even end of their career.  Tours in Germany, Japan, Spain, Hawaii, Alaska…..tours at domestic beach bases.  Guys teaching gliders in Colorado Springs.  I’ve got two buddies flying for the Thunderbirds.  The list goes on....my point is you will lose many of those opportunities in the Guard/ARC.  And before everyone goes ballistic reminding me of the catalogue of AD shit-deals out there, I get it.  There are a lot of shit deals.  A ton.  In fact, the shit deals can disproportionately outnumber the good deals in many cases.  Depends on your situation.  It’s a gamble.  And the gamble part of AD is the name of the game.  It isn’t for everyone.  I’m just saying it’s something to consider. 

 

The difference between AD and Guard/ARC is a choice between fundamentally different lifestyles and opportunities.  Be a military officer full-time and PCS every 1-3 years OR be a military officer part time and (hopefully) enjoy the stability of living in one place.  There’s lots of talk about queep and Green dot training, but I encourage guys looking for advice to not miss the forest for the trees.

You can't post anything positive about AD on this forum. You know better.

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[SurelySerious]

You can't post anything positive about AD on this forum. You know better.

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[dannoc]

Ancient Aviator here.  20 years, FAIP, F-4s, OV-10s.  Then 19 years with a major, great job, not much pressure (compared to the USAF), didn't take my work home with me, and a pretty stable life style.

So what dominates my memory now?  Hardly anything from the airlines.  It's all about AF buddies, reunions, and BS about military flying.  Wouldn't do it any other way if given the choice again. 

[billy pilgrim]

OP,

Tons of solid info in this thread from dudes that have been there, done that.  I was in a similar situation at your age and went mil.  Now I am a post ADSC (bragging!!) 11F, with some docs in my family so I have seen both sides of this.

AD vs Guard - lots more opportunities on AD and lots more REALLY bad deals.  Hence you are going to get wildly varying opinions on this.

Mil vs. civilian - again, very unique experiences available on the mil side, however you will work your ass off for no guarantee of anything.  Oh, and you'll be committed for 10 years as a pilot.

Another option is to become a civilian doc - then do a stint with a fighter guard (f15/16) unit as a flight surgeon.

Both of your career paths will take a ton of work.  The doctor route will have a much safer return on the time and effort you invest.  That being said, some of the stuff I've seen and done flying in the military I literally would not trade for anything.  The military route offers (potentially) greater rewards but at orders of magnitude more risk.

Not sure if I would do it again.  There have been a lot of incredible experiences and a lot of really bad ones.  YMMV.  Good luck!

[herkbum]

I think you got a good one, just a bit of a lefty.

He may be one of the few in the Grp. I guess he'll keep us semi-balanced


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[brickhistory]

THIS.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/article/pilot-flies-around-the-world-taking-amazing-photographs-from-the-aircrafts-cockpit/ss-BBwy8ui?ocid=spartanntp#image=8

Add in the stuff that military aviators get to see and those memories make those last breaths right before lights out worthwhile.

 

And this comment from an SLF who saw some cool sh!t so those that are meat servos probably saw 10x cooler stuff.

 

 

[glitchfire]

Thanks for the advice. Seems like everyone's mileage varies. Guess at the end of the day it really is a gut decision. Good to have my expectations checked, after reading this thread I'll have a more realistic outlook no matter what I choose. 

 

I'll try to remember to report back in 2 years or so. 

Edited September 25, 2016 by glitchfire

[matmacwc]

I would tell my kids to do it.

[Learjetter]

I would tell my kids to do it.

"2"

[brickhistory]

12 hours ago, matmacwc said:

I would tell my kids to do it.

Not a military pilot, so no vote that matters.  Got it...

However, I would not.  I didn't encourage or discourage any of my three but answered questions or started the topics to see what they thought about it.  Exactly none of them wanted to.

Both my wife and I are second generation USAF largely influenced by our fathers' service to be the next generation.  The buffoonery that we experienced was not lost upon our kids.  They have made the choice not to voluntarily experience the same or worse again.

The politicians outside the military don't take existential threats seriously and throw uniforms at problems expecting the hammer to be the solution while restricting how hard the hammer can strike.  Not a unique trait for civilian politicians, I admit.

The politicians within the military aid and abet this behavior.  Some of the political-ness of senior military officials is also not a new thing.

However, since the mid-1980s when I first became affiliated with Big Blue/DoD in uniform through to today in khakis and a polo shirt, the ability to say "no" and take the consequences of being fired or retired has disappeared.

Look at the "Deid" and "What's wrong with the Air Force threads" for examples.  Some ideas/attitudes/behavior is cyclical and just human nature.  Some of it is not and is a further politicization of the military with all the political correctness and social justice charges at the expense of military efficiency and killing people and breaking their things.

 

And get the f' off my lawn...