Single Seat or Strike Eagle?

[tk1313]

19 hours ago, R-Dub said:

I've never taken the Viper to combat.  Having said that, I'm not sure I would ever want to.  The jet is a nightmare from a human factors or avionics perspective.  The RADAR is a joke.  The ability to utilize sensors is still a slave to a 1970s construct that has been completely debunked and remains a complete liability to the airframe.  Many of the current DT efforts are an attempt to bring the jet to a level that is, in many ways, equivalent with F-15E Suite 5, let alone Suite 9.  Except for Auto ICAS.  I wish the F-15C/D/E could get that, if only for risk reduction.  In many ways, the Viper jet is a true testament to the dudes flying the jet.  There's a ton of compensation required to employ it effectively, and the bros have done an amazing job over the last 25 years making that jet as lethal as it has been. 

Wow, you really are living the dream. And nice description of the pros and cons of both... So basically, fun flying: Viper easy choice; War fighting: F-15 easy choice?

[icohftb]

If you're considering the Mudhen, you should really look into a Bone. Bigger payload, longer ranger, and same maneuverability: )

[HossHarris]

Bone is probably better at air to air as well

[Hacker]

I love hearing single seat guys talk about what it is like to fly with a WSO.

[11F]

Flying the Raptor, I've never once wished I had A) stayed in the F-15C or 2) had a WSO or iii) flown any other fighter. Having flown with WSOs only in IFF, I never thought to myself, "Man, I really enjoyed flying with that WSO!"


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[tk1313]

32 minutes ago, 11F said:

Flying the Raptor, I've never once wished I had A) stayed in the F-15C or 2) had a WSO or iii) flown any other fighter. Having flown with WSOs only in IFF, I never thought to myself, "Man, I really enjoyed flying with that WSO!"


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Obviously you feel invincible in a jet that can down 15 eagles before even being seen, but...Which is more fun to fly: The Raptor or the F-15C?

[11F]

Obviously you feel invincible in a jet that can down 15 eagles before even being seen, but...Which is more fun to fly: The Raptor or the F-15C?

F-22:
- Better at Air-to-Air than the Eagle
- More thrust
- Less drag
- More maneuverable
- Better sensors

[tk1313]

7 minutes ago, 11F said:

F-22:
- Better at Air-to-Air than the Eagle
- More thrust
- Less drag
- More maneuverable
- Better sensors

Awesome. It's a true shame the funding was cut short.... The raptor is the best fighter ever build IMHO...

[Azimuth]

2 hours ago, icohftb said:

If you're considering the Mudhen, you should really look into a Bone. Bigger payload, longer ranger, and same maneuverability: )

Just more WSO's...

[Toro]

6 hours ago, Hacker said:

I love hearing single seat guys talk about what it is like to fly with a WSO.

This is the best response to the OP's question.

Don't worry about the crew aspect, choose the one that suits the mission you want.  If you want an A/A mission with an aircraft that excels at that mission, go C model.  If you want a dual role aircraft that is designed to excel at A/G, go for the Strike Eagle.  The Mudhens can't BFM for shit against the Vipers and Eagles, but the other guys don't get to rage into a threat zone at more than 500 knots, less than 500 feet, blacked out, at night.

With more than 1500 Strike Eagle hours, I can count on one hand - make than one finger - the number of WSOs who were talking luggage.  They know their role, the crew duties are clearly laid out, and we have a good method for setting those straight who have problems figuring it out.

[Sparkle]

Thank you all for the insight and opinion, it's been entertaining and quite informative. I look forward to learning more and more as I advance through the program, I'm pumped to have the opportunity! Another question I've thought of during this discussion is what are the likes/dislikes you have about the A/A and A/G missions? 

Edited October 3, 2016 by Sparkle

[Toro]

4 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Thank you all for the insight and opinion, it's been entertaining and quite informative. I look forward to learning more and more as I advance through the program, I'm pumped to have the opportunity! Another question I've thought of during this discussion is what are the likes/dislikes you have about the A/A and A/G missions? 

Likes: Everything

Dislikes: Nothing

Oh, you're talking about specifics to each.

Do you want to spend your ground time in the vault memorizing a litany of procedures and coming up with a game plan, then be ready to execute another plan on the fly?  When you fuck all that up and merge, do you think you can hang at 9Gs (or 6.9 in the Mudhen) until you fix your problem?  If so, you should go air-to-air.

Do you want to spend your ground time in the vault memorizing threats and weapons effects and planning your target run for best case, then be ready to flex to the backup plan with a secondary or tertiary targeting plan?  When everything goes to hell and SAMs start launching, can you threat react, monitor your flight lead, then get back together and hit your target?  If so, you should go air-to-ground.

Summary: A/A - fly high, turn bad guys in the air into hair teeth and eyeballs.  A/G - fly low, turn bad guys on the ground into hair teeth and eyeballs.

[HossHarris]

Or go vipers and do it all ... 

[HU&W]

1 hour ago, HossHarris said:

Or go vipers and try to do it all ... 

fify

[pawnman]

11 hours ago, Toro said:

Likes: Everything

Dislikes: Nothing

Oh, you're talking about specifics to each.

Do you want to spend your ground time in the vault memorizing a litany of procedures and coming up with a game plan, then be ready to execute another plan on the fly?  When you fuck all that up and merge, do you think you can hang at 9Gs (or 6.9 in the Mudhen) until you fix your problem?  If so, you should go air-to-air.

Do you want to spend your ground time in the vault memorizing threats and weapons effects and planning your target run for best case, then be ready to flex to the backup plan with a secondary or tertiary targeting plan?  When everything goes to hell and SAMs start launching, can you threat react, monitor your flight lead, then get back together and hit your target?  If so, you should go air-to-ground.

Summary: A/A - fly high, turn bad guys in the air into hair teeth and eyeballs.  A/G - fly low, turn bad guys on the ground into hair teeth and eyeballs.

Let's not forget, the last time we ACTUALLY turned an airborne bad guy into hair, teeth, and eyeballs was, what, 1993?  Allied Force or Northern Watch, I don't remember.

[pawnman]

22 hours ago, icohftb said:

If you're considering the Mudhen, you should really look into a Bone. Bigger payload, longer ranger, and same maneuverability: )

And the WSOs do most of your mission planning for you.

[PlanePhlyer]

52 minutes ago, pawnman said:

And the WSOs do most of your mission planning for you.

And that's a bad thing?

[Ram]

Only if you like re-typing steerpoints in the EOR.

[Toro]

3 hours ago, pawnman said:

Let's not forget, the last time we ACTUALLY turned an airborne bad guy into hair, teeth, and eyeballs was, what, 1993?  Allied Force or Northern Watch, I don't remember.

Well, since you brought it up....

 

[di1630]

So what was the pilot/bus driver doing when the "cough" nav/was doing all the killing and who got credit?


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[11F]

The last USAF aerial victory was on May 4th, 1999 in Operation ALLIED FORCE. Lt Col Michael H. Geczy shot down a Mig-29 with an AIM-120 while flying an F-16CJ with the 78 EFS.

[Ram]

Well, since you brought it up....
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Jeebus Christola on a Cracker, a GBU-10 for a helo? Is everything WSOs do Korea-esque not-quite-right?


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[Lawman]

Jeebus Christola on a Cracker, a GBU-10 for a helo? Is everything WSOs do Korea-esque not-quite-right?


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Meh,

We're dropping multiple GBUs/Hellfires to kill a dude getting paid 200 dollars to dig a hole and bury HME. A GBU-10 for a MI series is probably a bargain by comparison.


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[pawnman]

11 hours ago, PlanePhlyer said:

And that's a bad thing?

No.  I'm trying to sell the B-1.  We need the manning.

[VMFA187]

No F-15 experience over here, unfortunately. But more than my share of flying with a WSO in F-18s.

Bottom line - Single seat trumps all. There are WSOs/Navs who are worth their weight in gold, but I would trade them for having to fly with the others. Something about being up there alone, or even better, with three of your buddies who are all in sole control of their machines.