Clark Griswold Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Wondering if we will see more of this with the rise of "Grey Zone" warfare: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/23/world/americas/colombia-airline-flights-venezuela.html?_r=0 There was no specific mention of a loss of separation but it was enough to get a "sharp diversion". China seems to be practicing this also: https://www.lawfareblog.com/chinas-harassment-civilian-ships-and-aircraft-south-china-sea-reminds-us-why-we-need-more-us-freedom This article and referenced speech imply they make no distinction or even attempt at distinguishing between civil and military traffic for interception or harassment. Could ICAO as a governing body respond? Suspension or some or all certifications or reciprocity of certifications?
Clark Griswold Posted October 31, 2017 Author Posted October 31, 2017 Intercept of Iranian civil registered A310: https://theaviationist.com/2015/04/30/rsaf-intercept-a310-sanaa/
Clark Griswold Posted February 19 Author Posted February 19 (edited) Restart on old thread: https://simpleflying.com/el-al-flight-radio-hijac-attempt-somali-airspace/ Edited February 19 by Clark Griswold
kaputt Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Was this really a cyber attack, or just some terrorists who found their best English speaking pal to try and pretend to be ATC on the VHF frequency the El Al flight was already on? 1
TreeA10 Posted February 19 Posted February 19 (edited) Sounds like a CPDLC hack. The re-route was sent but not accepted, certainly not executed. Pilots asked for further info via VHF or HF. For those not familiar: CPDLC is a data link with the regional controlling agency. You can swap messages, requests altitude or route changes, and more. Onthe 787, The controlling agency can send route changes and the pilots can ACCEPT, IGNORE, or CANCEL the incoming message. If the pilots push ACCEPT, the route is loaded into the FMS but you still have to press EXECUTE on the FMS to enter and activate the change. Edited February 19 by TreeA10
herkbum Posted February 19 Posted February 19 From some discussion on our internal pilot forum, my understanding is that it was voice. The actual ATC controller told them to refer to CPDLC and ignore VHF attempts. It was a female voice and the guys felt if was not the real controller and queried. We fly thru that area quite a bit. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app
Clark Griswold Posted February 19 Author Posted February 19 More on the incident Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Clark Griswold Posted February 19 Author Posted February 19 Seems overblown as a “threat” Depends as it all ended well, had it been a less security conscious carrier it might have ended differently Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kaputt Posted February 19 Posted February 19 I’ll follow up on my post though and say that something that could be a dangerous development, even over VHF voice channels, is did they use some sort of AI spoofing tech to closely match the voice of the on-shift controller? I saw that mentioned on Reddit. No idea if that’s what happened but that would actually be a concerning threat to civil aviation since VHF frequencies are not hard to access. 1
BashiChuni Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Guys there’s not a lot of ATC control over Somalia. Pretty easy to figure that out…and ignore it.
slc Posted February 19 Posted February 19 2 hours ago, BashiChuni said: Guys there’s not a lot of ATC control over Somalia. Pretty easy to figure that out…and ignore it. This.....as someone who recently flew into/around/and over I can vouch for that statement.
M2 Posted February 21 Posted February 21 Israeli El Al Alleges Hackers Targeted Flights in Mid-Air Hijack Attempt (hackread.com)
Clark Griswold Posted March 19 Author Posted March 19 Not exactly civil traffic but close enough for this thread: https://www.twz.com/news-features/gps-jamming-of-u-k-defense-secretarys-jet-highlights-russias-regional-ew-activities Interesting read with good embedded links
FourFans Posted March 20 Posted March 20 (edited) I fly the black sea corner routinely as civil traffic. Couple months ago we made the turn and completely unmasked our GPS antennas to face north and immediately got an ANP of 20+. It's a bit of a hazard. Edited March 20 by FourFans
dream big Posted March 20 Posted March 20 19 hours ago, Clark Griswold said: Not exactly civil traffic but close enough for this thread: https://www.twz.com/news-features/gps-jamming-of-u-k-defense-secretarys-jet-highlights-russias-regional-ew-activities Interesting read with good embedded links Been going on for over a year, severely affecting our mil platforms as well, and we haven’t done s$&t about it..
Clark Griswold Posted March 20 Author Posted March 20 Been going on for over a year, severely affecting our mil platforms as well, and we haven’t done s$&t about it..I guess we could jam in response I’m fine with that but not sure what else non kinetic we could doIt’s bullshit and I’m not sure being the bigger man and not retaliating (openly) is a viable COA going forward We just seem to be content letting assholes screw around with usSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
M2 Posted April 30 Posted April 30 Thousands of flights to and from Europe affected by suspected Russian jamming | Airline industry | The Guardian Flights in and out of Britain are among thousands that have been affected by suspected Russian jamming of GPS systems. More than 2,300 Ryanair flights have reported incidents of GPS interference since last August, according to a report, as well as almost 1,400 at Wizz Air, 82 at British Airways and four from easyJet. About 46,000 aircraft in total have logged problems with GPS over the Baltic Sea in the same time period, the Sun reported, based on analysis of flight logs with the website GPSJAM.org. Most of the GPS problems reported on the website have come in eastern Europe, bordering Russia... (full story at title link)
nsplayr Posted April 30 Posted April 30 Yea they're jammin' more than Bob Marley out there in a somewhat-successful attempt to defeat Ukrainian drones and other GPS-aided munitions. Thanks a lot Vlad!
M2 Posted September 23 Posted September 23 Electronic Warfare Spooks Airlines, Pilots and Air-Safety Officials If you don't have access to the WSJ, log onto the USAF MWR library website using your DoD Identification Number and DOB, then go under 'Find A Resource' and search for it... https://daf.dodmwrlibraries.org/ By the way, I already checked...there are no gun magazines listed! 🤬🤬🤬 2
Clark Griswold Posted September 23 Author Posted September 23 Had a UPS dude in the JS yesterday and he mentioned this from his recent flying in the ME, they were spoofed and GPS said they were over Cairo when still over 200+ NM away, they reverted to VORs and confirmation of track with ATC, don’t let those radio nav and dead reckoning skills atrophy… Article posted at drudge with no pay block: https://www.wsj.com/business/airlines/electronic-warfare-spooks-airlines-pilots-and-air-safety-officials-60959bbd
uhhello Posted September 23 Posted September 23 (edited) I can't find it but there is a great European airline compnay with a ride along that shows all the jamming/spoofing once they hit UKR & ME. Found it Edited September 23 by uhhello
polcat Posted September 24 Posted September 24 The FAA doesn't have guidance or updated mandates in place for US air carriers? Say it ain't so. And the AIM isn't too helpful either, only to report anomalies online. Are there any airline dudes here that fly international that can comment on their procedures to mitigate this issue? Also, its somewhat shocking that the AAL B777 crew in that WSJ article experienced GPS issues all the way back to the US.
Stoker Posted September 24 Posted September 24 5 hours ago, polcat said: The FAA doesn't have guidance or updated mandates in place for US air carriers? Say it ain't so. And the AIM isn't too helpful either, only to report anomalies online. Are there any airline dudes here that fly international that can comment on their procedures to mitigate this issue? Also, its somewhat shocking that the AAL B777 crew in that WSJ article experienced GPS issues all the way back to the US. GPS spoofing effectively tells the FMS that the INUs are all off by some degree and should correct their position. Once they change to match the bad GPS signal, even once the spoofing ends, they can't go back to their original, correct position, which means that for the rest of the flight you have the FMS interpolating between good GPS and bad INUs for position, so you won't ever get a really good solution. https://ops.group/blog/nat-crossing-after-gps-spoofing/
herkbier Posted September 24 Posted September 24 Not an airline guy.. forgive the elementary question. Why is there no ability to exclude the GPSs? Or ability to remove the bias introduced into the INU? Inflight alignment? What do you do if you lose power in flight and have to reboot?
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