The Next President is...

[Vertigo]

On 4/19/2018 at 8:35 AM, tk1313 said:

The Cold War is over. The 1980s called... they want their foreign policy back. (couldn't resist)

 

I'll take Cold War foreign policy towards Russia  than the current one, which appears to be:

[Sit On Acorns]

 

[Lawman]

3 hours ago, Vertigo said:

I'll take Cold War foreign policy towards Russia  than the current one, which appears to be:

 

Remind me which administration bombed their surrogate in Syria twice plus killed a bunch of their merc’s, actually got NATO to agree to not be an empty shell of an organization with a pretty blue flag and pay up, approved arms sales of munitions to include anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, shuttered the Russian consulate in Seattle, and has their diplomat to the U.N. pretty much daily taking them to task for stuff.

 

I could have sworn that all happened in the last 18 months.

 

But you’re right, that picture couldn’t reflect Obama. He was after all willing to be much more flexible in how he got f’d By Russia. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Lawman

[tk1313]

[Bobby]

[Lawman]

1 hour ago, Bobby said:

 

One guy is into (literally) fat girls... 

Another likes watersports...

Kinda makes you wish for the 60s and normal debauchery like two actual prothers also being Eskimo brothers with the worlds number 1 hot chick at the time...

[brickhistory]

[Vertigo]

On 4/20/2018 at 2:06 PM, Lawman said:

 

Remind me which administration bombed their surrogate in Syria twice plus killed a bunch of their merc’s, actually got NATO to agree to not be an empty shell of an organization with a pretty blue flag and pay up, approved arms sales of munitions to include anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, shuttered the Russian consulate in Seattle, and has their diplomat to the U.N. pretty much daily taking them to task for stuff.

 

I could have sworn that all happened in the last 18 months.

 

But you’re right, that picture couldn’t reflect Obama. He was after all willing to be much more flexible in how he got f’d By Russia. 

Bombed an empty airfield, and gave a "heads up... move your equipment and personnel cause we're gonna hit these places"

The mercs attacked our forces. The only other option was to let the mercs kill them. Seems like common sense rather than an offensive strategy.

The same UN diplomat who announced there will be new sanctions on Russia, only to find out that Trump called Putin before that and said "No there won't be". Oh and then failed to notify that same U.N. diplomat of that conversation. Where's the sanctions that passed Congress with a near unanimous vote and was signed into law? You know the ones that were supposed to take affect in October but Trump decided to just ignore? 

Shuttered the Russian consulate and then became irate when he found out he was expelling more diplomats than the other nations. 

I think it's good Trump's backing the resolution that came out of NATO's 2014 summit when Obama was President that forces other nations to reach the GDP goals.

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by Vertigo
a word

[Stitch]

On 4/20/2018 at 7:22 PM, brickhistory said:

To bad many here won't get it. (Especially the first picture)

[Kiloalpha]

1 hour ago, Stitch said:

To bad many here won't get it. (Especially the first picture)

Wilt Chamberlain right? The dude who played for the Lakers and Harlem Globetrotters? This was when he signed his contract and told the world how good he would be.

[Lawman]

Bombed an empty airfield, and gave a "heads up... move your equipment and personnel cause we're gonna hit these places"

 

The mercs attacked our forces. The only other option was to let the mercs kill them. Seems like common sense rather than an offensive strategy.

 

The same UN diplomat who announced there will be new sanctions on Russia, only to find out that Trump called Putin before that and said "No there won't be". Oh and then failed to notify that same U.N. diplomat of that conversation. Where's the sanctions that passed Congress with a near unanimous vote and was signed into law? You know the ones that were supposed to take affect in October but Trump decided to just ignore? 

 

Shuttered the Russian consulate and then became irate when he found out he was expelling more diplomats than the other nations. 

 

I think it's good Trump's backing the resolution that came out of NATO's 2014 summit when Obama was President that forces other nations to reach the GDP goals.

 

 

If you’ve got access to SIPR you know your first point is complete bullshit. If you don’t want to go do the research on it I can’t help you. You’ll just swallow more anti-Trump hysteria talking points like BQZip’s mom swallows.... well that’s self explanatory,

Germany signed a 2014 agreement and still hasn’t met it, though they will now that Trump has publically taken them to task about it. Obama had an empty piece of paper from the “No Action Talk Only” group that ran out of bombs while asking us to shoulder the load from behind in Libya. Trump also put in those Congressionally mandated sanctions, just late... along with more of them. And you completely walked away from the Ukraine situation because while Obama was sitting around denying who those little green dudes were, now we are actively selling Javelins to Ukraine... which might actually make a difference with all those “rebel controlled” T-72MBs and BMP-3s running around.

Again for all the bitching and bullshit that’s been built around this idea that Trump is literally being puppet mastered by Putin we sure do spend a lot of time doing shit to actively piss them off. 

That part (like how close we came repeatedly to a shooting war in a certain AOR) always seemed to gets ignored by people making a big damn deal about Trump saying “congratulations” to Putin in a phone call that Obama also made in 2014 saying congrats.

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Lawman

[17D_guy]

21 hours ago, Lawman said:

 Trump also put in those Congressionally mandated sanctions, just late... along with more of them.

Good stuff, but did he in effect the last round?  The one where our (awesome) UN Ambassador came back with the, "I'm not confused."

[brickhistory]

It's still early and it's only to the best of my recollection, but Obama (and Clinton since she was the SecState) does lead Trump in one important category:

 

Ambassadors killed:

Obama/Clinton                             Trump

        1                                                  0

 

We can discuss "leading from behind" in another post...

[congressman]

On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 3:06 PM, Lawman said:

 

Remind me which administration bombed their surrogate in Syria twice plus killed a bunch of their merc’s, actually got NATO to agree to not be an empty shell of an organization with a pretty blue flag and pay up, approved arms sales of munitions to include anti-tank weapons to Ukraine, shuttered the Russian consulate in Seattle, and has their diplomat to the U.N. pretty much daily taking them to task for stuff.

 

I could have sworn that all happened in the last 18 months.

 

But you’re right, that picture couldn’t reflect Obama. He was after all willing to be much more flexible in how he got f’d By Russia. 

Also multiple rounds of sanctions despite the left repeating that "he hasn't implemented the sanctions congress passed" (He has.)  

But, Obama said "knock it off" to putin once so he wins.  

[Vertigo]

On 4/25/2018 at 12:53 AM, brickhistory said:

It's still early and it's only to the best of my recollection, but Obama (and Clinton since she was the SecState) does lead Trump in one important category:

 

Ambassadors killed:

Obama/Clinton                             Trump

        1                                                  0

 

We can discuss "leading from behind" in another post...

Much easier to not get them killed when you leave those positions vacant. What are we at like 44 ambassador positions have gone unfilled by Trump? Can't kill someone who doesn't exist, amirite?

[SHFP]

I bet you are sorry that you were too young to Go Downtown.  Sure you would have enjoyed a stay in the Hilton.  

 

[SHFP]

I apologize for venting.  I just found out that another fighter friend is in final hospice and was having a few toasts.  Didn't mean to be a jerk.

 

[Guest]

Much easier to not get them killed when you leave those positions vacant. What are we at like 44 ambassador positions have gone unfilled by Trump? Can't kill someone who doesn't exist, amirite?

Really? Can you channel your inner libtard any further?

[brickhistory]

3 hours ago, Vertigo said:

Much easier to not get them killed when you leave those positions vacant. What are we at like 44 ambassador positions have gone unfilled by Trump? Can't kill someone who doesn't exist, amirite?

 

Really, you are going with that? 

Unconfirmed in the appointment by the Senate as opposed to KIA despite the repeated and denied requests for further, reliable security in a rapidly deteriorating situation like Libya was (albeit too close to the 2012 election to risk repudiating the "everything is fine" doctrine) sure seems like a better result.

Results do seem to matter to the current guy to the dismay of the entrenched of both political parties.  Not empty, hollow words like the last one.

Not counting, of course, "I'll have more room, heh heh, to maneuver after the next elections."  Those seemed to have had results as well.

[Vertigo]

On 4/28/2018 at 10:16 PM, brickhistory said:

 

Really, you are going with that? 

Unconfirmed in the appointment by the Senate as opposed to KIA despite the repeated and denied requests for further, reliable security in a rapidly deteriorating situation like Libya was (albeit too close to the 2012 election to risk repudiating the "everything is fine" doctrine) sure seems like a better result.

Results do seem to matter to the current guy to the dismay of the entrenched of both political parties.  Not empty, hollow words like the last one.

Not counting, of course, "I'll have more room, heh heh, to maneuver after the next elections."  Those seemed to have had results as well.

And what party was in control of the purse strings at the time that voted "No!" to the requested increased embassy security funding at the time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6BLMz1chEM



Regardless, the "whataboutism" to deflect valid criticisms on this administration is telling.  

[brickhistory]

2 hours ago, Vertigo said:

And what party was in control of the purse strings at the time that voted "No!" to the requested increased embassy security funding at the time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6BLMz1chEM



Regardless, the "whataboutism" to deflect valid criticisms on this administration is telling.  

SecState Clinton was responsible for the allocation of the Department's budget, regardless of it had been increased or not.  The Ambassador on the ground requested, repeatedly, for reliable help.  Which was denied repeatedly.  I'm betting security at the Lichtenstein Embassy could've been cut to shift some funds, but that's just humorous now.

Regardless, a US Ambassador was murdered under the watch of the previous Administration.

Which you have conveniently just declared that "whataboutism" is invalid.  Which is ironic since the current Administration has stated publicly that much of its agenda is to undue the buffoonery of the previous Administration.  Sooo, how does one make the apples to apples comparison if you declare that the old apple can't be looked at?  Either way, I reject the premise.

But just for fun, here's some "whataboutisms:
 

What about the record number of federal judges approved and in office under the current Administration?

What about the potentially historic nK upcoming visit?  Whether it's successful or not is still TBD admittedly.

What about the consecutive quarters of very strong economic growth?

What about the consecutive quarters of lowering unemployment including and especially among minorities?

And the list could go on.

Compared to that, not having designated but not yet confirmed by the Senate (except, of course, for the just confirmed gay one to Germany so there's that bigotry thing not happening again.  And this will be the second time that the Senate's role in confirming the nominated people for all those ambassadorships is ignored), does seem to be a case of effective prioritization.  The diplomatic relations between the US and various countries seems to be humming along.  With or without a formal ambassador in place.

Which is infinitely better than having a dead ambassador.  But I'm old-fashioned that way.

[Vertigo]

3 hours ago, brickhistory said:

What about the record number of federal judges approved and in office under the current Administration?

Record number? If by record number you mean he's 6th out of the last 19 Presidents, then yeah! Great! 
https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-trump-federal-judiciary/

 

3 hours ago, brickhistory said:

What about the potentially historic nK upcoming visit?  Whether it's successful or not is still TBD admittedly.

I think this is fantastic. I'll even give Trump some credit for the about face we've seen out of NK even without the talks taking place. Whether it's intentional or not I think Trump's irrationality has pushed NK to change how they act.

The NK regime just wants to survive. Everything the do and say is in service to that goal. A core component of their crazy act is having global superpowers with leaders who act rationally. But that's changed with Trump, a man who appears to be unstable in his actions and words. So they've had to change tactics.I like to think of NK as the weedy kid with a bad haircut that everybody laughs at in high school, whose only friend is the fat, foreign exchange student from China. But NK doesn't want to rely on China for their protection, they want to remind everyone they have a voice. Therefor they've adopted a very distinct strategy- act crazy. Coming across as unstable and volatile. It's important to note that's just an act. In order to appear stronger they publicly try to intimidate the US- the nice guy, muscular jock across the room. The strongest person they can see. Calling them names and knowing they would never -really- respond. 

And it works. Most nations decide NK is just not worth the hassle. They just roll their eyes and give in to whatever they're demanding to shut them up for a little while because it's easier than the alternative. 

But now there's been a change to the jock. This time when NK looks over at the USA, rather than seeing a sensible, rational face, they see a wide grin and crazy eyes staring back at them. There suddenly is another crazy kid in the class... a much LARGER and STRONGER crazy kid! And they suddenly realize that if they continue to provoke this new jock might actually respond now. Add in the fact that their one friend, China, has been getting fairly annoyed with their antics and their friendship has cooled some. Also when they look over at the jock they see him wearing shoes made by China. And when they look at their friend China they see him eating an American cheeseburger- these two are trading economically and culturally. The ideological divide between China and the USA has diminished greatly since the 50s... so NK has to wonder, if things really went down, would my buddy really have my back?

So NK thinks "wow, maybe now is a good time to tread softly, now is a good time to drop the crazy act"

I believe we have Trump's irrationality to thank for that, at least partially at least. Whether that was his plan the whole time or just a lucky byproduct of his unstableness, who cares, it seems to be doing something which is better than nothing.

3 hours ago, brickhistory said:

What about the consecutive quarters of very strong economic growth?

It's wonderful that what started under Obama has continued thus far under this administration. It's not quite the growth Trump has said it would be (we're still under his promised 3% or more) but hopefully we'll get there soon. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/27/606078181/economy-probably-started-2018-off-slow-short-of-trumps-growth-target

3 hours ago, brickhistory said:

What about the consecutive quarters of lowering unemployment including and especially among minorities?

Again- it's wonderful that what started under Obama has continued under this administration. I hope this continues or at least stays this low. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Vertigo
Link

[brickhistory]

So no one can compare the current Administration's accomplishments to the last one.

But the last one gets credit for what's occurring now?

That's convenient.

 

Ah well, it's still not Hillary in the White House.

[Azimuth]

1 hour ago, brickhistory said:

Ah well, it's still not Hillary in the White House.

You’re right, I mean with all the Twitter diplomacy, lawyers being hire and fired for possible criminal and civil litigation, hiring and firing of cabinet members, paying of porn starts (but not with campaign funds), military parade planning, who had time to focus on issues with the country? I’m sure the meeting at the DMZ this summer will net him Time Man of the Year honors and that Nobel Peace Prize.

Cue all the classical realists...

Edited May 3, 2018 by Azimuth

[brickhistory]

Previous guy (I know it's not PC to reference the past lest one learn from it) got the Nobel Peace Prize for not being George W. Bush.

I'd be fine if this guy got it for not being Hillary.