17D_guy Posted August 16, 2018 Posted August 16, 2018 3 hours ago, drewpey said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/revoke-my-security-clearance-too-mr-president/2018/08/16/8b149b02-a178-11e8-93e3-24d1703d2a7a_story.html?utm_term=.26f93ba123b1 Legit was not expecting that author. Thanks for posting, good read.
Lord Ratner Posted August 17, 2018 Posted August 17, 2018 Ok, so he's defending his friend. That's great. But honestly I can't watch any of these retired honorable men on cable news for more than a minute before I stop venerating their service. I don't care if you're a republican or democrat, if you want to be a pundit, you should lose your clearance.Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Azimuth Posted August 17, 2018 Posted August 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said: Ok, so he's defending his friend. That's great. But honestly I can't watch any of these retired honorable men on cable news for more than a minute before I stop venerating their service. I don't care if you're a republican or democrat, if you want to be a pundit, you should lose your clearance. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Read his letter twice, didn't once see the word "friend" included. Most people lose their clearance two years after they retired/separated unless an employers pays to have it renewed.
drewpey Posted August 17, 2018 Posted August 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said: Ok, so he's defending his friend. That's great. But honestly I can't watch any of these retired honorable men on cable news for more than a minute before I stop venerating their service. I don't care if you're a republican or democrat, if you want to be a pundit, you should lose your clearance. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk What specifically about punditry do you think is disqualifying for holding a security clearance? You are either trustworthy or you aren't. They don't have a need to know, aren't getting special inside information, and are still beholden to the NDAs they signed back when they were in the know. A few more names to add to the pile: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F7pZ8oP2KpIK8x-yI0RbescPzP3RK2S4/preview
Lord Ratner Posted August 17, 2018 Posted August 17, 2018 Read his letter twice, didn't once see the word "friend" included. Most people lose their clearance two years after they retired/separated unless an employers pays to have it renewed. You're right, they probably don't know each other... Also, most people doesn't include the top brass. They keep their clearances indefinitely. Well, until they piss of Trump it seems. What specifically about punditry do you think is disqualifying for holding a security clearance? You are either trustworthy or you aren't. They don't have a need to know, aren't getting special inside information, and are still beholden to the NDAs they signed back when they were in the know. A few more names to add to the pile: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F7pZ8oP2KpIK8x-yI0RbescPzP3RK2S4/preview I love that Patreus had the balls to sign that letter. Well I don't think any of them are particularly trustworthy, as they have so adequately demonstrated. And it should surprise no one that the urge to provide those hard-hitting soundbites and breaking scoops has caused more than a few honorable men and women to develop loose lips. So yeah, I would disqualify anyone who becomes an analyst for Fox, CNN, CNBC, etc.
nsplayr Posted August 17, 2018 Posted August 17, 2018 Do you really not think any of the people on this list are trustworthy? It's a bipartisan and largely non-partisan list of high-level CIA professionals voicing a very specific critique of one of the President's policies toward someone they all likely know well. Here's the list for those who didn't click through: William H. Webster, former Director of Central Intelligence (1987-1991) George J. Tenet, former Director of Central Intelligence (1997-2004) Porter J. Goss, former Director of Central Intelligence, (2005-2006) General Michael V. Hayden, USAF, Ret., former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (2006-2009) Leon E. Panetta, former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (2009-2011) General David H. Petraeus, USA, Ret., former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (2011-2012) James R. Clapper, former Director of National Intelligence (2010-2017) John E. McLaughlin, former Deputy Director of Central Intelligence (2000-2004) Stephen R. Kappes, former Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (2006-2010) Michael J. Morell, former Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (2010-2013) Avril Haines, former Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (2013-2015) David S. Cohen, former Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (2015-2017) I'll ask again; do you not find any of these folks to be trustworthy? Do you not think McRaven in particular is a credible judge of character and leadership? As far as I know, he's never shilled on cable news since his retirement in 2014. He wrote a book and has been working as the chancellor of the University of Texas system. Y'all likely know my position on many of the President's policies based on the political party I support, but putting that aside, these folks are not speaking as partisans hacks looking to get a quick hit on CNN to shout their hot take about the latest tweet. These are professionals with specific knowledge of an issue saying that a line has been crossed. Good for them for doing so, and I'd hope serious people would do the same no matter who is in the seat at the top.
waveshaper Posted August 17, 2018 Posted August 17, 2018 6 hours ago, Lord Ratner said: I love that Patreus had the balls to sign that letter. The former Director of the CIA is a great example of how this "top dog" security clearance game is played. He was fired in 2012, didn't lose his security clearance, and continued advising the White House/Intel Community from 2012 to 2016. The co-conspirator in this scandal, Lieutenant Colonel Paula Broadwell, lost her Security Clearance and in February 2013 the Army revoked Broadwell's promotion to lieutenant colonel, etc, etc.
Homestar Posted August 17, 2018 Posted August 17, 2018 10 hours ago, nsplayr said: General David H. Petraeus, USA, Ret., former Director of the Central Intelligence Agency Really? No, in particular I do not find him trustworthy. He should have lost his clearance entirely if he didn't; with what he did. 1
Vertigo Posted August 17, 2018 Posted August 17, 2018 I expect the day will come that Mattis speaks out against Trump over something and all the MAGA heads start denigrating him over it.
nsplayr Posted August 17, 2018 Posted August 17, 2018 (edited) I concur, Petraeus is problematic. Put him aside if you’d like. What about the rest? What about what McRaven said? Their point is valid. Shoe on the other foot - McChrystal was critical of the Obama admin and specific people in it. Did Obama threaten to strip his clearance or actually do it? No, he didn’t. Nor has that happened to anyone else for political reasons on either side. This is petty banana republic BS. I agree it’s often distasteful for retired mil officers in particular to become political pundits, trust me, as a Dem they are much more often critical of Dems. It’s not that you have to love Brennan or everything he says. But former officials are free to speak their mind once their government service is complete and for high ranking intel folks, it’s frankly a benefit to the government, not the person, to retain their clearances so that they can continue to be consulted on things they worked on if current officials request their help. Edited August 18, 2018 by nsplayr
drewpey Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 Add Bob Gates to the list... https://fortune.com/2018/08/17/bob-gates-signs-letter-criticizing-trump/ 1
HeloDude Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 10 hours ago, Vertigo said: I expect the day will come that Mattis speaks out against Trump over something and all the MAGA heads start denigrating him over it. By what day will this happen? I just want to check back on the date you provide to see if your expectation was correct or not...
HeloDude Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 2 hours ago, nsplayr said: What about Shoe on the other foot - McChrystal was critical of the Obama admin and specific people in it. Did Obama threaten to strip his clearance or actually do it? No, he didn’t. Nor has that happened to anyone else for political reasons on either side. This is petty banana republic BS. Yeah...Obama just fired him instead. So much for "trust".
drewpey Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 1 hour ago, HeloDude said: Yeah...Obama just fired him instead. So much for "trust". ehhh....McChrystal fired himself with the rolling stone expose. Obama's hand was forced and any leader worth their weight in salt would do the same given the situation. 1
Azimuth Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 2 hours ago, HeloDude said: Yeah...Obama just fired him instead. So much for "trust". Cause he violated the UCMJ and talked shit about the big boss 😂 I mean, he could’ve court martialed him since the POTUS is a convening authority. The scary part is Trump could order SECNAV to order McRaven to active duty to court martial him for his comments.
HeloDude Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 31 minutes ago, drewpey said: ehhh....McChrystal fired himself with the rolling stone expose. Obama's hand was forced and any leader worth their weight in salt would do the same given the situation. How do you 'fire yourself'? And if you're for Obama removing anyone he wants then why are you against Trump revoking security clearances?
HeloDude Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 24 minutes ago, Azimuth said: Cause he violated the UCMJ and talked shit about the big boss 😂 I mean, he could’ve court martialed him since the POTUS is a convening authority. The scary part is Trump could order SECNAV to order McRaven to active duty to court martial him for his comments. Weren't you almost court martialed or something close to that effect?
Azimuth Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, HeloDude said: Weren't you almost court martialed or something close to that effect? Yeah, so was Billy Mitchell, what's your point? What does that have to do with McCrystal talking shit about Obama? Edited August 18, 2018 by Azimuth
drewpey Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 1 hour ago, HeloDude said: How do you 'fire yourself'? And if you're for Obama removing anyone he wants then why are you against Trump revoking security clearances? Well one way you can fire yourself is to publicly disparage your boss. No job in the world does that go over well. Anyone in that situation that tries to blame the boss for firing them after trashing them is only kidding themselves. Trump can hire and fire whoever he wants, I have no problem with that. It's his team to build and lead the country. The security clearance isn't about that. It's purely political vengeance because Brennan is being a thorn in his side. As with many things with Trump, I'm concerned that what we may let pass because it's just "trump being trump" will actually be long-term damage to our institutions as future presidents follow his footsteps and simply start revoking clearances or using other presidential powers to intimidate and otherwise undermine our democracy. 2
Guest Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 Yeah, so was Billy Mitchell, what's your point? What does that have to do with McCrystal talking shit about Obama?I think Billy Mitchell at least knew better than to screw his subordinates. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Azimuth Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 3 hours ago, ihtfp06 said: I think Billy Mitchell at least knew better than to screw his subordinates. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Doesn’t matter, he wasn’t Enlisted. Different spanks for different ranks. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/02/01/air-force-busts-retired-four-star-general-down-two-ranks-coerced-sex/97356020/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/23/disgraced-army-general-fired-after-inappropriate-relationship/422902001/
HeloDude Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 9 hours ago, Azimuth said: Yeah, so was Billy Mitchell, what's your point? What does that have to do with McCrystal talking shit about Obama? It shows that you're not credible, that's all...
HeloDude Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 8 hours ago, drewpey said: Well one way you can fire yourself is to publicly disparage your boss. No job in the world does that go over well. Anyone in that situation that tries to blame the boss for firing them after trashing them is only kidding themselves. Trump can hire and fire whoever he wants, I have no problem with that. It's his team to build and lead the country. The security clearance isn't about that. It's purely political vengeance because Brennan is being a thorn in his side. As with many things with Trump, I'm concerned that what we may let pass because it's just "trump being trump" will actually be long-term damage to our institutions as future presidents follow his footsteps and simply start revoking clearances or using other presidential powers to intimidate and otherwise undermine our democracy. So Obama can fire his top Generals for being "a thorn in his side", but Trump can't take away a government security clearance (for someone who is no longer working for the government) for also being "a thorn in his side"? I get it dude, you don't like Trump and don't like 99% of what he does, so why should this be any different?
Azimuth Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 1 minute ago, HeloDude said: It shows that you're not credible, that's all... The current POTUS is alleged to have cheated on his wife with a porn star and was recorded saying he “grabs women by the pussy.” Seems to have worked out for him so far...
HeloDude Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 Just now, Azimuth said: The current POTUS is alleged to have cheated on his wife with a porn star and was recorded saying he “grabs women by the pussy.” Seems to have worked out for him so far... You're digging yourself a hole man, but keep going! "People who live in glass houses..."
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