17D_guy Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 I will say at this time both Foxnews and CNN have healthcare as the number 1 topic from the debate.
DosXX Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 Top moment for Trump was calling out Joe's political answer. Top moment for Biden was talking about being a president for both red and blue states and a united America. Worst part was them accusing each other of corruption for 20 minutes at the start, but it recovered and it's a been much better debate on all sides including moderator. 3
Prozac Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 23 minutes ago, DosXX said: Top moment for Trump was calling out Joe's political answer. Top moment for Biden was talking about being a president for both red and blue states and a united America. Worst part was them accusing each other of corruption for 20 minutes at the start, but it recovered and it's a been much better debate on all sides including moderator. Agreed. Much better debate all around. I don’t see it moving the needle at all though.
viper154 Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Guardian said: I realized I’m bias. So if just like to hear from others. How did tonight go? More of a debate than 3 people yelling at each other like last time. I think they both made some strong points and also had some short comings. I’m biased as well, but Biden has trouble speaking. I’ve never paid attention to any unscripted public talking he has done, (exception being the last few months) so I can’t say if it’s his age or he just always has struggled on the spot. He saved himself from saying anything to crazy but there were a lot of mumbles, pauses, and stutters. Trump did his standard 3rd grade level vocabulary stuff, “very great, very good, best ever” type stuff, talked about himself a bunch, and toned down his aggressiveness a bit. He did call Biden out about changing the topic to dodge a question and looking to the camera to do his “it’s about you Americans” bit, as well as being a career politician and never getting much done. I really wish Trump would take a public speaking class/expand his vocabulary and reference supporting documentation/sources/evidence more. It would make for stronger points and take his debating/speaking to the next level. Nothing really ground breaking on the topics discussed, pretty much “as filed”. Trump took a softer approach on climate change and backed Biden into admitting he wanted to eventually shut down the oil/gas industry. I thought it was a good move with some of the potential swing states oil/fracking industries, but at this point I don’t know if it was enough to change a vast majority of voters minds My best at a unbiased opinion, most people have decided who their voting for awhile ago, this debate didn’t come out with one clearly crushing the other. No major blunders, blows, or ground breaking policy announcements on either side, at least not enough to sway decided voters into the opposite camp. For the undecided folks, they are probably left picking a couple issues that matter most to them and going with the candidate that aligns with that. Edit to add, I don’t know how the timing was working out, but it seemed the moderator was giving Biden more opportunities and time to rebut Trump. Trump had to fight to get time to counter Biden, seemed like Biden was always just handed the opportunity. Edited October 23, 2020 by viper154
dream big Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 10 hours ago, bfargin said: Trying to be a smartass, but stating the truth. FDR was a complete douchebag and a socialist to the hilt. Almost every policy that he advocated for and got passed by Congress was socialist in nature. He was the ultimate big government bureaucrat who didn't do anything but increase the size and reach of government. It took us years to roll back some of those taxes, but sadly, most of his programs are ingrained into our governmental fabric now. He also illegally detained thousands of innocent Japanese Americans behind bars ..weird, the self righteous liberals always forget that little detail when they praise him.
Stoker Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 24 minutes ago, dream big said: He also illegally detained thousands of innocent Japanese Americans behind bars ..weird, the self righteous liberals always forget that little detail when they praise him. What was illegal about it? Korematsu v. US is still binding law, despite the SCOTUS' efforts to overturn it in dicta.
slackline Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 I listened to about 30 minutes before falling asleep (it was riveting...) and they both suck. Joe wasn’t incredibly articulate, but I didn’t think it was from being lost or confused. I’m no Dr though. It seemed like frustration. Trump would get eaten alive on this forum as he makes all sorts of outrageous, unproven claims without citing jack all... Guardian and Lord Ratner would be constantly saying “disingenuous!” or “straw man” to him because that’s what he does...No needle movement whatsoever. Two politicians (as much as Trump claims he’s not, it took him about 4 years to turn into what he rails against) doing what they do. Claiming what they are going to do, or what they have done. For whoever said vote for VP, that’s a clear cut choice, I wholeheartedly disagree. Pence seems like a hollow shell of a man. No character, and for someone as religious as he claims to be, I see it as a problem to just sit there, quiet, while one of the most seemingly immoral men we’ve ever had as sitting POTUS does what he does and says what he says. Both VPs are horrendous as well. Maybe I’ll give Kanye the nod...Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1
ClearedHot Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 14 hours ago, lloyd christmas said: The dirty career officials in the FBI really left the FBI in a bad spot after the Comey news conference in 2016 declaring Hillary innocent. I doubt they will speak out pre-election for fear of having the same thing happen again. And like you said, it is an ongoing investigation. Which sets the stage for impeaching Joe should he be elected. Let's be clear, the radical elements of the DNC fele empowered and will play any game to push the pendulum as far to the left as possible. There are two gaming being played. First, at all costs remove Donald Trump. Second and more importantly, play long ball and transform this country into a socialist utopia. Notice how Quiet AOC +3 have been? If Joe wins watch them begin to leverage against Biden and Promote Harris. 2 1
Lord Ratner Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 6 hours ago, slackline said: I listened to about 30 minutes before falling asleep (it was riveting...) and they both suck. Joe wasn’t incredibly articulate, but I didn’t think it was from being lost or confused. I’m no Dr though. It seemed like frustration. Trump would get eaten alive on this forum as he makes all sorts of outrageous, unproven claims without citing jack all... Guardian and Lord Ratner would be constantly saying “disingenuous!” or “straw man” to him because that’s what he does... No needle movement whatsoever. Two politicians (as much as Trump claims he’s not, it took him about 4 years to turn into what he rails against) doing what they do. Claiming what they are going to do, or what they have done. For whoever said vote for VP, that’s a clear cut choice, I wholeheartedly disagree. Pence seems like a hollow shell of a man. No character, and for someone as religious as he claims to be, I see it as a problem to just sit there, quiet, while one of the most seemingly immoral men we’ve ever had as sitting POTUS does what he does and says what he says. Both VPs are horrendous as well. Maybe I’ll give Kanye the nod... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Have I ever defended Trump as honest or consistent? I think I've been pretty consistent that he's awful. I look at results, because I haven't had faith in the humans that go to Washington for a long time. The presidential results are shockingly good compared to how shockingly bad the actual presidential human is. If I voted on personality I would go for Biden then be shocked (shocked I tell you) that he was making money from his drug addict soon selling their name to the worst countries on Earth. As for Pence, completely disagree. He's boring, but he's also the only one of the four who has any philosophical basis backing his positions, and he's also the only one who is actually a good person. Best case scenario is Trump wins, then steps down on Jan 2nd. 1 1
GrndPndr Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said: <snip> As for Pence, completely disagree. He's boring, but he's also the only one of the four who has any philosophical basis backing his positions, and he's also the only one who is actually a good person. Best case scenario is Trump wins, then steps down on Jan 2nd. And I was thinking that the best 'scenario' would be a no-holds-barred double-header, with Harris v. Pence followed by the main event - Trump v. Biden. Lots of bandages and ice (and beer) will be needed, but the entertainment factor - wow. The whole thing is just f*cking sad of course. Edited October 23, 2020 by GrndPndr Words obviously confuse me sometimes
Guardian Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 Dual to the death! Oil and diapers for the main event. 15 second rounds with 30 min naps. Or instead of naps, just long enough to administer a shot of whatever Biden has been taking for both.
slackline Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 Have I ever defended Trump as honest or consistent? I think I've been pretty consistent that he's awful. I look at results, because I haven't had faith in the humans that go to Washington for a long time. The presidential results are shockingly good compared to how shockingly bad the actual presidential human is. If I voted on personality I would go for Biden then be shocked (shocked I tell you) that he was making money from his drug addict soon selling their name to the worst countries on Earth. As for Pence, completely disagree. He's boring, but he's also the only one of the four who has any philosophical basis backing his positions, and he's also the only one who is actually a good person. Best case scenario is Trump wins, then steps down on Jan 2nd.Reading comprehension guys. It's important. I cited you because you wouldn't put up with the ridiculously poor and bogus arguments Trump makes. Not because you defended him ever. It was a hypothetical, fake scenario.Agree to disagree. Opinion warning and it probably is controversial in an environment where everyone seems to think this admin is infallible: Pence strikes me as incredibly self-righteous. I don't understand Christians that hate on LGBTQ, or aren't compassionate towards people that suffer oppression at the hands of others. Christ never "hated" on anyone for being different or even doing stuff he said they shouldn't (except the money changers in the temple), but evangelicals can be some pretty hateful people "in the name of Christ" at times. Don't get it. Not trying to convince anyone or change their minds. The above was my opinion only, and what better place to share it than the internet... I'd love for people to change their minds or even just be open to it, but I'm a realist...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 1
Negatory Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 As someone who is, at least policy wise, leaning towards voting for Biden, I have to agree with Lord Ratner. When it comes down to VP vs VP, Pence is the one who seems like he has a moral compass and tries to stick to it, even if I don’t agree with some of his ideas. Harris comes across as extremely condescending and motivated by stupid shit like wokeness or dog whistle racism bs. I really didn’t like her act in their debate.
slackline Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 Let me also say, I think Harris is lousy and I would never vote for her. This is truly the most difficult vote I've ever participated in...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Lord Ratner Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 2 hours ago, slackline said: Reading comprehension guys. It's important. I cited you because you wouldn't put up with the ridiculously poor and bogus arguments Trump makes. Not because you defended him ever. It was a hypothetical, fake scenario. Agree to disagree. Opinion warning and it probably is controversial in an environment where everyone seems to think this admin is infallible: Pence strikes me as incredibly self-righteous. I don't understand Christians that hate on LGBTQ, or aren't compassionate towards people that suffer oppression at the hands of others. Christ never "hated" on anyone for being Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Perhaps you and Guardian are more alike than you think. I guess I don't get the Pence thing. I'm atheist, yet I'm not confused by Christians who stands opposed to homosexuality. I disagree, of course, and have been pro-gay-marriage since I was in school, but is it really confusing when people follow the doctrine of their religion, as they have been doing for a couple thousand years? Find me one example of Pence treating a homosexual poorly. Same goes for Romney. Two better men than 99% of the political class, yet maligned for a widely held and peaceful belief... You call it "hate" the same way many on the left misuse "racist" as an attack. The words matter. Policy and philosophy differences are not hate. You can be against illegal immigration without hating immigrants. You can be against the second amendment without hating gun owners. And you can be against gay marriage without hating on the gays. I can never tell if you are intentionally obtuse or not. On the one hand you immediate locate and call out logical fallacies or unsupported hyperbole in other people's posts. But then you fill your own posts with the same. It's confusing. But I'm easily confused 🤷♂️
Guardian Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 Perhaps you and Guardian are more alike than you think.Yeah!!!! Take that!Wait.....WTF? 2
Negatory Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 I mean, Pence has definitely treated gay people poorly, literally trying to take away basic rights. Just cause he didn’t literally punch one of them in the face doesn’t mean he didn’t treat them poorly. 2000: During his congressional campaign, Mike Pence said, “Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage.” 2004: Mike Pence co-sponsored a proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would define marriage as solely between one man and one woman. Many more...
ViperMan Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 On 10/22/2020 at 2:13 PM, Lord Ratner said: I always found this argument amazing. My wife and I make restaurant-quality food 5/7 nights a week, and it's usually between $5-10 in ingredients per person. And we only buy meat from whole foods. What are people buying at grocery stores that's more expensive than restaurants? Filet mignon? Yeah I know, I can buy like 3-4 chicken breasts for less than $5. If I make rice with it, that's full sustenance for a few days. It's not "great" eating, but that's not what we're talking about. People just like to dress up excuses nowadays.
Homestar Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 54 minutes ago, Negatory said: During his congressional campaign, Mike Pence said, “Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage.” This was the opinion of, like, a loooot of people back in 2000. A lot has changed since then. 1 1
Lord Ratner Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Negatory said: I mean, Pence has definitely treated gay people poorly, literally trying to take away basic rights. Just cause he didn’t literally punch one of them in the face doesn’t mean he didn’t treat them poorly. 2000: During his congressional campaign, Mike Pence said, “Congress should oppose any effort to put gay and lesbian relationships on an equal legal status with heterosexual marriage.” 2004: Mike Pence co-sponsored a proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would define marriage as solely between one man and one woman. Many more... Cussing out the waitress is treating people poorly. Kicking a dog is treating animals poorly. Brake checking cars on the highway for fun is treating people poorly. What's next, he's sexist for not having dinner alone with women who aren't his wife? Having a completely mainstream opinion on the nature of marriage (that I personally disagree with) is not the same. This is the *perfect* illustration of why so many conservatives are at odds with the left, and stuck voting for Trump. Run-of-the-mill liberals conflate things like a stance on gay marriage with treating gay people poorly. Being against illegal immigration is xenophobia. Being against abortion is anti-woman. Being against lockdowns is anti-science. The problem is that now the conservatives (voters, not politicians) are adopting the same strategy, all exacerbated by social media bubbles. Not good for anyone. 1
Prozac Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said: Cussing out the waitress is treating people poorly. Kicking a dog is treating animals poorly. Brake checking cars on the highway for fun is treating people poorly. What's next, he's sexist for not having dinner alone with women who aren't his wife? Having a completely mainstream opinion on the nature of marriage (that I personally disagree with) is not the same. This is the *perfect* illustration of why so many conservatives are at odds with the left, and stuck voting for Trump. Run-of-the-mill liberals conflate things like a stance on gay marriage with treating gay people poorly. Being against illegal immigration is xenophobia. Being against abortion is anti-woman. Being against lockdowns is anti-science. The problem is that now the conservatives (voters, not politicians) are adopting the same strategy, all exacerbated by social media bubbles. Not good for anyone. Disagree. Pushing your particular religious views onto the population as a whole is anathema to American values. No one is forcing Mike Pence to marry a man. No serious person is suggesting that his relIgion should change it’s beliefs. He is free to practice as he sees fit. Actively attempting to deny an entire segment of the population of rights the rest of us enjoy is certainly treating them poorly and is a shitty position to take. 1 2
dream big Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 53 minutes ago, Homestar said: This was the opinion of, like, a loooot of people back in 2000. A lot has changed since then. Agreed...including your 44th President: Barack Hussein Obama, until Summer 2012, right before his re election. Who was his VP? So please liberals ...spare us the self righteous BS. 1
FLEA Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Prozac said: Disagree. Pushing your particular religious views onto the population as a whole is anathema to American values. No one is forcing Mike Pence to marry a man. No serious person is suggesting that his relIgion should change it’s beliefs. He is free to practice as he sees fit. Actively attempting to deny an entire segment of the population of rights the rest of us enjoy is certainly treating them poorly and is a shitty position to take. Marriage is a religious institution though. It should have never been recognized by the government to begin with. That's your real issue. 2 5
kaputt Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 5 hours ago, dream big said: Agreed...including your 44th President: Barack Hussein Obama, until Summer 2012, right before his re election. Who was his VP? So please liberals ...spare us the self righteous BS. Beat me to it, but exactly. How easily people forget this.
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