The Next President is...

[jazzdude]

My question to the liberals on this board is, what do you stand for?  What do you actually get up in the morning and think, if this went away, I'm doomed. Or if it goes this way, I've got it made in the shade.  In case you didn't ask, I'll tell you what I stand for.  I stand for liberty.  Freedom.  I live on 37 acres.  In the woods.  Rural.  Can't get that easy anywhere else on earth. I treasure that.  That's liberty (From HOAs) and freedom.  I make my own decisions.  The grocery store is pretty far down the road.  I have a garden. I have a well.  I have chickens and goats.  Whenever I decide I need to gather up a burn pile of deadfall that's the size of a Dominos store, I pile it up and burn it. I treasure that.  There are no restrictions.  There are no HOAs.  I look at people that live in urban and suburban life and I can see why they would want to depend on the government, especially if it all went down hill.  I want as little gov't involvement as possible, especially if it goes down hill.  Have liberals given up on being independent and pioneering?
/Rant/ Males (definitely not men) in this country have devolved to phoning it in to living in the suburbs.  They don't know how to change a tire.  They don't don't know how to grow food.  They don't know how to fish.  They certainly can't field dress a deer. They don't know how to do anything except to watch Netflix and order in.  They are all caught up in the liberal bullshit of the day: transgender/#metoo/blacklivesmatter. Maybe that's ok for generations that are overtaking me.  I don't subscribe to that mentality or lifestyle.  I think it is a shame.  
/Rant off/
 

You've got the benefit of space, and that's great. You've got enough land where you don't have to interact with people if you don't want to; "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone."

The challenge with cities is population density. More people living much closer together, which creates friction, and with that comes rules to reduce friction/conflict.

Industrialization concentrates populations, and encourages people to specialize in tasks. This also drives technological advances.

It's easy to call out others for lacking skills you have and thinking of them as lesser people for it. But maybe they aren't interested in your hobbies. Not saying that the skills you mentioned (changing a tire, fishing, hunting, etc) are bad; they're great. Are they essential? Depends on your outlook on society.

The heart of the matter is what the role of society should be. How individualistic should we be, and how much should we cooperate towards collective goals?

Ref. BLM/LGBT/etc, I think people just want to be treated as people. Sure there are some associated with those interest that want outlandish things, but I'd wager most just want to have an even footing in life so they can pursue their life/liberty/happiness. Some of the issues may be injustices/biases in our system/society-let's do some real root cause analysis as a society/state/country and fix it. We tend to ignore and kick societal issues down the road until it boils over into violence, so here we are...

[FLEA]

11 minutes ago, jazzdude said:

 

 

You've got the benefit of space, and that's great. You've got enough land where you don't have to interact with people if you don't want to; "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone."

The challenge with cities is population density. More people living much closer together, which creates friction, and with that comes rules to reduce friction/conflict.

Industrialization concentrates populations, and encourages people to specialize in tasks. This also drives technological advances.

It's easy to call out others for lacking skills you have and thinking of them as lesser people for it. But maybe they aren't interested in your hobbies. Not saying that the skills you mentioned (changing a tire, fishing, hunting, etc) are bad; they're great. Are they essential? Depends on your outlook on society.

The heart of the matter is what the role of society should be. How individualistic should we be, and how much should we cooperate towards collective goals?

Ref. BLM/LGBT/etc, I think people just want to be treated as people. Sure there are some associated with those interest that want outlandish things, but I'd wager most just want to have an even footing in life so they can pursue their life/liberty/happiness. Some of the issues may be injustices/biases in our system/society-let's do some real root cause analysis as a society/state/country and fix it. We tend to ignore and kick societal issues down the road until it boils over into violence, so here we are...

 

All really good points. I'd add that 80% of American society today lives in an urban environment. That number is expected to grow to 90% in the next few years. In general urban areas have higher economical impact and stability than rural areas. Its easy to say "just move to the country and live off the land" but we actually need people to live and work in cities and manufacture high end products to support our economy.

[Prozac]

8 hours ago, filthy_liar said:

My question to the liberals on this board is, what do you stand for?  What do you actually get up in the morning and think, if this went away, I'm doomed. Or if it goes this way, I've got it made in the shade.  In case you didn't ask, I'll tell you what I stand for.  I stand for liberty.  Freedom.  I live on 37 acres.  In the woods.  Rural.  Can't get that easy anywhere else on earth. I treasure that.  That's liberty (From HOAs) and freedom.  I make my own decisions.  The grocery store is pretty far down the road.  I have a garden. I have a well.  I have chickens and goats.  Whenever I decide I need to gather up a burn pile of deadfall that's the size of a Dominos store, I pile it up and burn it. I treasure that.  There are no restrictions.  There are no HOAs.  I look at people that live in urban and suburban life and I can see why they would want to depend on the government, especially if it all went down hill.  I want as little gov't involvement as possible, especially if it goes down hill.  Have liberals given up on being independent and pioneering?

/Rant/ Males (definitely not men) in this country have devolved to phoning it in to living in the suburbs.  They don't know how to change a tire.  They don't don't know how to grow food.  They don't know how to fish.  They certainly can't field dress a deer. They don't know how to do anything except to watch Netflix and order in.  They are all caught up in the liberal bullshit of the day: transgender/#metoo/blacklivesmatter. Maybe that's ok for generations that are overtaking me.  I don't subscribe to that mentality or lifestyle.  I think it is a shame.  

/Rant off/

 

Where is your land? How many hectares....um, I mean acres? Number of animals on said land? What do you grow there? Is it fertile? We must get this information to AOC ASAP so your land may be incorporated into a collective for glorious Socialist Republic of United States comrade!

[FLEA]

Just now, Prozac said:

Where is your land? How many hectares....um, I mean acres? Number of animals on said land? What do you grow there? Is it fertile? We must get this information to AOC ASAP so your land may be incorporated into a collective for glorious Socialist Republic of United States comrade!

Most important piece of info! 

[dream big]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

We agree, but individualism is one of the key elements that made us (and thus the rest of the world) thrive. We do not believe in responsibility to the collective. That doesn't mean we don't cooperate, we just do it on our terms.

 

Numb nuts on his 37 acres is just an isolationist. Glad he had the freedom to do it, but it doesn't push the society forward, and if everyone wanted that, we'd get nowhere.

He is at least right about one thing : as little government as possible.  Push power down to the states and local governments.  One seriously must be living in a bubble if they believe the answer to their problems is “more government.”  The government couldn’t run a convenience store without running it into the ground.  Seriously what is wrong with people? 

[Negatory]

2 hours ago, Sim said:

https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/27/the-hunter-biden-scandal-has-exposed-the-corporate-presss-corruption-and-condescension/

 

 

Remember! Left thinks all of it is russian disinformation! 

Fox News and most other mainstream conservative news outlets also refuse to talk to the story. Why? Because there is almost no veracity to the outlandish claims. The truth is that these allegations are a hilarious Hail Mary to throw some dirt 2 weeks before the election.
 

Heres your choice: take the red pill and believe the unbacked up claims of the NYP (who are hilariously biased, they literally just endorsed Trump on their front page). Or take the blue pill and recognize that multiple CIA directors, national intelligence directors, defense intelligence specialists, and leaders in that community have all stated that this is overwhelmingly likely to be Russian disinformation. When did the whole of the US intelligence machine become a liberal hoax? Conspiracy theory is putting it lightly.

(Double click this to open the letter)

As much as I don’t like the guy, someone like Biden was a really smart choice when it comes down to running against Trump. He is boring, old, probably a little slow in his mental capacities. But he’s not a pure criminal, and he hasn’t done too many shady things. Hearing Trump repeat the “Hillary for prison” chants at his rallies, just updating them to “Biden for prison” is honestly desperate and pathetic. This is the state of politics in 2020, and it’s a large reason why I’m voting the way I am.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/10/28/trump-conspiracy-theoryhunter-biden-433131

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Negatory

[Guardian]

No veracity based off what negatory? There are a lot of people who think it’s true. So you saying it’s not a thing or true needs to be backed up for us inquisitive voters.

Of note I didn’t realize this but some states allow you to change your vote. If any of you early voters are regretting your decision you might potentially be able to change it depending on the state.

[jazzdude]

He is at least right about one thing : as little government as possible.  Push power down to the states and local governments.  One seriously must be living in a bubble if they believe the answer to their problems is “more government.”  The government couldn’t run a convenience store without running it into the ground.  Seriously what is wrong with people? 

Government should be limited, and act within the scope the people have given the government (at any level, federal, state, county, city).

In theory, our government is representative of us, so helping out other citizens is like helping out your neighbor, though they might not be right next door. What role do/should the different levels of government play in execution/policy?

People pay taxes, and want to see a return on what they've given up, which is fair. But a lot of functions may not directly impact them as individuals in the here and now, but may help others in need now, or lay out a system that creates a fair environment for everyone to pursue their life/liberty/happiness in the long run.

It's good that we debate the role of government, and increase/decrease scope as what our society wants. I'm wary of mob rule though, so popularity polls (and calls for popular direct vote on national issues) concern me, as it allows large urban areas to dominate the discussion and disregard rural voices that may have different concerns/realities.

I'd argue the government can run a convenience store, class 6/AAFES seems to do okay. Maybe not the greatest, but not run into the ground.

Maybe we are asking too much of our government based on how much we're willing to pay. Implementing programs because they sound good, but not funding them, leads to frustrations as a disconnect forms between what we want and what we get. Taxes are what pays for government and it's programs, but we have been cutting taxes but not programs.

Since we're talking about smaller government, should DoD get more funding, as we're part of that government? If funding stays the same, or gets reduced, what gets cut? It's how we in DoD ended up with "do more with less" in the past, and there are many people that believe our investments (in taxes) in defense are still too big. And don't forget, there's a support tail needed to support the direct warfighter, so cuts in support could affect the warfighter in the long run, whether it's support, quality of life, retention, etc. Also, remember paying a contractor for support functions still comes out of that same budget.

[Negatory]

21 minutes ago, Guardian said:

No veracity based off what negatory? There are a lot of people who think it’s true. So you saying it’s not a thing or true needs to be backed up for us inquisitive voters.

Of note I didn’t realize this but some states allow you to change your vote. If any of you early voters are regretting your decision you might potentially be able to change it depending on the state.

Why do you all of a sudden believe something that the FBI has “had for over a year” (and they didn’t press any charges) is new information, when the CIA and leadership of the intelligence community says it’s overwhelmingly likely it’s disinformation? Why would Giuliani sit on the laptops for months if they showed clear wrongdoing? Oh it’s because he can release them 2 weeks in advance and get guys like you to say “yeah! They probably are criminals” and vote before the smoke clears.
 

Reminder that your source (the computer repair man) is literally claimed to be someone who has a condition that doesn’t allow them to remember or recognize faces. Convenient. You so badly want to believe whatever supports your side, and it’s kinda sad.

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Negatory

[Lord Ratner]

7 minutes ago, Negatory said:

 and leadership of the intelligence community says it’s overwhelmingly likely it’s disinformation?

 

Source? Last I heard the DNI explicitly stated that nothing indicated the laptop was foreign disinformation. That's just one voice, but it's the most informed one.

 

I think at this point we can disregard anything that comes from paid contributors (Dem and Rep) who once upon a time were in the bureaucracy. James Clapper alone has done more to discredit that demographic than any talking head in recent memory.

 

Edit: For transparency, I believe the laptop is real. I do not believe Hunter Biden dropped it off at that repair shop.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Lord Ratner

[Guardian]

Doesn’t mean it’s not true. You’re just postulating hypotheticals not making facts. As Pence told K,you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts

[Negatory]

I will post this again for you guys. Double click it. Are you just ignoring this unintentionally or are you intentionally only responding to the parts that are convenient?

By the way, Guardian, the way it works when someone claims wrongdoing is that THE ACCUSERS actually have the burden of proof. Not the other way around. If it’s set in stone, release the metadata.

[Negatory]

6 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Doesn’t mean it’s not true. You’re just postulating hypotheticals not making facts. As Pence told K,you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts

Also a lot of people agree that 9/11 was an inside job and the Holocaust wasn’t real. And just because you say they are “doesn’t mean it’s not true.“

Id also like to add Qanon, pizza gate, forced microchipping, the us gov creating Covid, and vaccines intentionally killing babies and causing autism to the list of things that right leaning conspiracy theorists believe right now.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Negatory

[Guardian]

Huh? Your analogies make no sense. Just like your link above, they are broken.

[Guardian]

No one is saying the Holocaust didn’t happen or that 9/11 was an inside job on here. And even if they were that is a very small minority. There is a large amount of people that have zero reason to not believe this laptop isn’t true. And when the left media doesn’t cover it, it just flames that fire. I haven’t heard any convincing evidence that this stuff isn’t real. If it wasn’t real don’t you think the FBI and DNI would say so? Investigations into crimes take time. Maybe that’s why we aren’t getting access from official sources?

[Guardian]

Haven’t heard one shred of evidence that it’s a hoax. But I’ve heard lots of evidence it is real. Open to both sides here.

[brabus]

40 minutes ago, Negatory said:

By the way, Guardian, the way it works when someone claims wrongdoing is that THE ACCUSERS actually have the burden of proof.

Valid...unless it’s claims against the current sitting president, then everything that the MSM puts out is true, regardless if any credible evidence is presented. That is to say I agree with your statement, but social media and the MSM are doing an incredibly piss poor job at adhering to it. What makes it worse is it’s incredibly one sided politically, which scares me (and would still do so if it was all rampantly anti-democrat). The bullshit pushed by the MSM is no better than what’s pushed by the fringes...it’s out of control, and people across the entire political spectrum eat up their side while minimizing the opposite. The close-mindedness/pick-a-side running rampant in America is frightening. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by brabus

[Sim]

Who said that voter fraud is fake?  

Texas AG respond. 

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxton-statement-project-veritas-uncovering-organized-election-fraud-bexar-county-texas

Edited October 28, 2020 by Sim

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, Guardian said:

Doesn’t mean it’s not true. You’re just postulating hypotheticals not making facts. As Pence told K,you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts

Isn’t it up to the person making bold claims to prove them?  I really don’t understand this argument. It’s like me saying Mike Pence is a child molester. I have zero proof to back that up, but you have zero proof that he’s not. It just doesn’t work that way and it’s patently outlandish. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Prozac
Grammar

[Guardian]

100% agreed.

[Sim]

1 hour ago, Negatory said:

But he’s not a pure criminal, and he hasn’t done too many shady things.

If you ignore the evidence, I could see how one would arrive to that conclusion. 

https://nypost.com/2020/10/21/hunter-biden-laptop-linked-to-fbi-money-laundering-probe-report/

Quote

One document was designated as an FBI “Receipt for Property” form, which details the bureau’s interactions with the owner of “The Mac Shop” who reported the laptop’s contents to authorities.

The document has a “Case ID” section, which is filled in with a handwritten number: 272D-BA-3065729.

According to multiple officials, and the FBI’s website, “272” is the bureau’s classification for money laundering, while “272D” refers to “Money Laundering, Unknown SUA [Specified Unlawful Activity]—White Collar Crime Program.”

One government source said “272D” mean “transnational or blanket,” while “BA” means the case was opened in the FBI’s Baltimore office, which covers Wilmington, Del., where the subpoena was executed.

 

 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/breaking-exclusive-hunter-biden-pictures-half-naked-exposed-certain-minor-joe-biden-lying/

I wonder how many people went to jail for this?  rules for thee but not for me.   

[17D_guy]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

Huh? Your analogies make no sense. Just like your link above, they are broken.

They make perfect sense...again, you're just not willing to see it.

[dream big]

6 hours ago, jazzdude said:

 

 

Government should be limited, and act within the scope the people have given the government (at any level, federal, state, county, city).

In theory, our government is representative of us, so helping out other citizens is like helping out your neighbor, though they might not be right next door. What role do/should the different levels of government play in execution/policy?

People pay taxes, and want to see a return on what they've given up, which is fair. But a lot of functions may not directly impact them as individuals in the here and now, but may help others in need now, or lay out a system that creates a fair environment for everyone to pursue their life/liberty/happiness in the long run.

It's good that we debate the role of government, and increase/decrease scope as what our society wants. I'm wary of mob rule though, so popularity polls (and calls for popular direct vote on national issues) concern me, as it allows large urban areas to dominate the discussion and disregard rural voices that may have different concerns/realities.

I'd argue the government can run a convenience store, class 6/AAFES seems to do okay. Maybe not the greatest, but not run into the ground.

Maybe we are asking too much of our government based on how much we're willing to pay. Implementing programs because they sound good, but not funding them, leads to frustrations as a disconnect forms between what we want and what we get. Taxes are what pays for government and it's programs, but we have been cutting taxes but not programs.

Since we're talking about smaller government, should DoD get more funding, as we're part of that government? If funding stays the same, or gets reduced, what gets cut? It's how we in DoD ended up with "do more with less" in the past, and there are many people that believe our investments (in taxes) in defense are still too big. And don't forget, there's a support tail needed to support the direct warfighter, so cuts in support could affect the warfighter in the long run, whether it's support, quality of life, retention, etc. Also, remember paying a contractor for support functions still comes out of that same budget.

 

Good question on the DOD.  Yes it would get a funding cut; but not on the backs of our troops or training (ie sequestration 2013).  Those cuts should come from eliminating proxy wars and conflicts such as Afghanistan where we drained resources for almost 20 years without a coherent strategy. 
 

However, just because we are asking for a smaller government doesn’t mean less funding for the DOD.  Those asking for a small government are simply wishing the scope, power and overreach of the government was limited as the constitution intended.  This is mostly towards domestic policy; foreign policy and the DOD are very much one of the few functions of the federal government.  

[Breckey]

So then, no standing army? Just as the founding fathers intended. How is the standing DoD any more less constitutional then other social welfare programs?

[filthy_liar]

11 hours ago, jazzdude said:

You've got the benefit of space, and that's great. You've got enough land where you don't have to interact with people if you don't want to; "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone."

The challenge with cities is population density. More people living much closer together, which creates friction, and with that comes rules to reduce friction/conflict.

Industrialization concentrates populations, and encourages people to specialize in tasks. This also drives technological advances.

It's easy to call out others for lacking skills you have and thinking of them as lesser people for it. But maybe they aren't interested in your hobbies. Not saying that the skills you mentioned (changing a tire, fishing, hunting, etc) are bad; they're great. Are they essential? Depends on your outlook on society.

The heart of the matter is what the role of society should be. How individualistic should we be, and how much should we cooperate towards collective goals?

Ref. BLM/LGBT/etc, I think people just want to be treated as people. Sure there are some associated with those interest that want outlandish things, but I'd wager most just want to have an even footing in life so they can pursue their life/liberty/happiness. Some of the issues may be injustices/biases in our system/society-let's do some real root cause analysis as a society/state/country and fix it. We tend to ignore and kick societal issues down the road until it boils over into violence, so here we are...

Wow.  Great reply.  I mean that.  It's the internet, so let me try to clarify my post:

- I interact with people in the city every day.  I work there.  My daughter goes to school there.  My hot ass girlfriend lives there.  I just personally choose to live out, and I find it challenging and personally fulfilling to be as self sufficient as I can - if I ever had to.  What I do is mostly practice.  But, if Kroger closes down, the city water is shut off, the cops have been defunded, etc; I can get pretty far down the road.  My girlfriend could not.  People in urban areas could not.  And they are praised for that.  To me, that is a lack of skills, lack of forward thinking, and a lack of appreciation for what this country was founded upon.  Not a personal attack - my girlfriend is in the same boat.

- Fair enough on calling out others for lacking skills.  Again, its the internet.  I don't know anyone on here, not trying to convince anyone of anything, just making statements.  This forum is excellent for providing info on what a pilot and/or aircrew/Air Force in general is like.  It's also a great source of info on how to get into the airlines.  This internet forum does not provide useful info on ethics, morals, religion, or politics.  No internet forum could do that.  If someone is swayed in any of those categories because of the internet....well.  And along those lines, I don't mind personal insults, because I sling them as well.  It's the internet, and it's the WOKE thread.  Insults are authorized as long as we don't piss off the moderators.

- I don't get the BLM/LGBT/#metoo/etc.  I agree there is violence associated with those topics.

Again, great reply.  BTW, are you liberal, and if so, what do you stand for?  That was my original question that was never answered.

Edited October 29, 2020 by filthy_liar
I actually do know someone on here, personally. But I shan't call him out because if I were him the last thing I would want would be to be associated with my antics on an internet forum.