The Next President is...

[frog]

2 hours ago, Mark1 said:

Shouldn't even have to make the call.  They should already be self-mobilizing.  If doing everything possible to undermine faith in the democratic process (I'm not talking about lawsuits) isn't quite enough to classify you a "domestic enemy" of the Constitution, then refusing to abdicate would remove all doubt.  Not that it would work this way in reality, but there should be 1.5 million members of the military moving on D.C. to honor their oath.  I didn't vote for Biden and I'm no longer beholden to any oath, but I'd make the trip if it became necessary.

The fact that the electorate put a person in power that would make these kinds of questions less than batshit crazy to entertain is an embarassment for the country.  As Robert O'Neill said of Trump's desired military parade in D.C.: that's "3rd world bullshit".  So is having to think about this.

The international community has been watching 3rd world bullshit from the highest level of government in this country for 4 years.  It does no favors to our status as the last standing superpower.  China is surging economically but we have always had uncreachable high-ground over them (and others) from all other angles.  We're a little less untouchable than we used to be and have nobody to blame but ourselves.

I know you are being dramatic, but the LAST thing that would restore confidence in the system is the military intervening to force a transition of power and civilian authority. Think about the precedent that would set.

[raimius]

I think we can stop with the coup porn and agree: "The Army is a broadsword, not a scalpel. Trust me, senator, you do not want the Army in an American city."

 

[FLEA]

6 hours ago, Mark1 said:

Shouldn't even have to make the call.  They should already be self-mobilizing.  If doing everything possible to undermine faith in the democratic process (I'm not talking about lawsuits) isn't quite enough to classify you a "domestic enemy" of the Constitution, then refusing to abdicate would remove all doubt.  Not that it would work this way in reality, but there should be 1.5 million members of the military moving on D.C. to honor their oath.  I didn't vote for Biden and I'm no longer beholden to any oath, but I'd make the trip if it became necessary.

The fact that the electorate put a person in power that would make these kinds of questions less than batshit crazy to entertain is an embarassment for the country.  As Robert O'Neill said of Trump's desired military parade in D.C.: that's "3rd world bullshit".  So is having to think about this.

The international community has been watching 3rd world bullshit from the highest level of government in this country for 4 years.  It does no favors to our status as the last standing superpower.  China is surging economically but we have always had uncreachable high-ground over them (and others) from all other angles.  We're a little less untouchable than we used to be and have nobody to blame but ourselves.

I like your thought process here but we really need to start processing the trauma that China has likely already obtained supper power status on peer with us. They may not have the covnetional military quite there yet, but , if we look at Hybrid state theory via their Economic, Cyber, and Intelligence platforms, they have global reach. A good example was how they forced airlines to recognize Taiwan as part of the PRC. Another good example is how they forced American super businesses like Disney to recognize their claim to the 9 dash line. They spend equally on their military us, (when calculated for price parity and personnel costs) and they are only a couple years away from tech superiority to us. 

I'm only point this out because it's really important our next POTUS realise this and realise the rules have change on the global landscape. We aren't the only bad boy in town anymore. Out next POTUS needs to be super cognicent of that and realize we have to take a different approach now than world police. 

[Sim]

Opsie. More little glitches. 

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/michigan-republican-wins-election-after-county-fixes-glitch-originally

Quote

Adam Kochenderfer was originally declared the loser in his race against Democrat Melanie Hartman for a position on the Oakland County Board of Commissioners. The narrow race appeared to end with Hartman the winner by just 104 votes. 

Yet the county clerk soon discovered that a set of absentee ballots had actually been reported in the voter totals twice. Once the duplicate set was removed, Kochenderfer came out ahead by 1,127 votes.

 

[Lord Ratner]

On 11/5/2020 at 7:19 AM, FLEA said:

I'm going to be honest. Politically I detest her. We couldn't be more opposite on so many things. I also don't think she has all of her platforms well thought out. I do not think she's stupid though, just not as expereinced. We take for granted sometimes as officers we have a broad understanding of government, and policy. But at the end of the day, none of us ran for office, and she did. 

Morally though I somewhat admire her. She was unhappy with her circumstances, ran an extremely fierce campaign as an under dog, and stood strongly in front of a wave of criticism on everything from her background to her looks from opponents that would not take her seriously. This ultimately backfired, because now you have to take her seriously. Whether you like to admit it or not, she has political pull and influence. That equates to power, and so long as she had power, she matters. Would love to see some younger Republicans generate the same energy but they largely just don't exist. 

She was also dead nuts on about Amazon. Conservatives really shit the bed on that one.

 

If anybody thinks that the world's most powerful corporation running a beauty pageant for the cities of America, so they would turn over what is usually heavily guarded tax and policy information, so that company could pick the most tax advantaged location to open their next mega center, is somehow what capitalism is supposed to look like, then conservatives don't deserve to be the defenders of capitalism. 

She's just another liberal. Good at identifying problems, bad at identifying causes and solutions.

[Lord Ratner]

You know, I think this was the best case scenario for a Trump loss. It might even be better than a Trump win, assuming the GOP can pick the right candidate for 2024.

 

Trump loses, but the rest of the Republican political class wins, keeping the senate and gaining in the house, as well as picking up some state legislatures. That's a clear repudiation of the man, not the party.

 

Keeping the senate means effectively zero progressive wishlist items will happen in the next two years.

 

Biden, let's not forget, is a fool who was not-too-long-ago frustrating his party as VP for always trying to make deals with Mitch Mcconnell. I see that continuing.

 

Biden's win was small, so not a mandate. And amazingly, Trump gained in all voter groups *except* white men. If you don't think there are some (D) strategists right now melting down over that, I've got something to sell you. A black Republican who speaks Spanish would obliterate what's left of the democratic coalition.

 

Mail in balloting is here to stay, and even with the most mailed-in election in history, by far, Biden barely won. The previous (D) advantage in early and mail-in voting will evaporate once the (R) figure out they need to embrace it.

 

No more crazy Trump tweets is a win for the country. I'm concerned about foreign relations, which was unfortunately Trump's strongest area, but at least the split government will temper any gross reversals. As stated, China is the threat.

 

And some California and NY seats flipped, which should indicate restlessness amongst the victims of the high-tax low-freedom regimes that have controlled state policy for decades.

 

Could have been a lot worse

[Guardian]

I’m concerned that Biden has tried to reach out to trump supporters in word only. He has already said he will make a sweeping amount of executive decisions to undo what trump has done. So reaching out doesn’t really mean what he thinks it means. It means he changes the things he and his party want while saying hi to the trump supporters and effectively saying hope you feel better and then going on his merry reduced mental capacity way.

[Guardian]

And if he were to actually achieve bringing some of the country together, then here comes the left with the 25th amendment.

[FLEA]

30 minutes ago, Guardian said:

I’m concerned that Biden has tried to reach out to trump supporters in word only. He has already said he will make a sweeping amount of executive decisions to undo what trump has done. So reaching out doesn’t really mean what he thinks it means. It means he changes the things he and his party want while saying hi to the trump supporters and effectively saying hope you feel better and then going on his merry reduced mental capacity way.

Yeah his statements on unity were extraordinarily tone deaf given he came from the administration that started the great divide. It's political theater. He has no intention of unifying the US public. 

[drewpey]

18 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Yeah his statements on unity were extraordinarily tone deaf given he came from the administration that started the great divide. It's political theater. He has no intention of unifying the US public. 

What in your opinion were Obama's most divisive actions?  Do you feel like Trump was "payback" for the division you felt under Obama?

[Sua Sponte]

2 hours ago, FLEA said:

Yeah his statements on unity were extraordinarily tone deaf given he came from the administration that started the great divide. It's political theater. He has no intention of unifying the US public. 

Uh, the “Great Divide” started before that. That was Newt Gingrich being Speaker of the House going all in on Bill Clinton for getting a blowie from an intern and lying about it. But the economy was great, Clinton was popular, and it backfired on Newt and he left the House. I think it would’ve continued, however 9/11 happened within the first two years of Bush Jr’s tenure, and the country came together when OEF/OIF kicked off. Now it’s turned into some tribalism between both parties. I think Trump losing is great for the GOP because they can stop faking that they support Trump’s policies and have an imposter as the face of the party.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Sua Sponte

[drewpey]

18 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

I think Trump losing is great for the GOP because they can stop faking that they support Trump’s policies and have an imposter as the face of the party.

This is something I haven't heard before.  Up until now most republicans I spoke with are diametrically opposed to your statement.  They love his policies and what he has done, but claim to not like the man himself.  What Trump policies do you think will be discarded by the GOP in his absence?

[FLEA]

39 minutes ago, drewpey said:

What in your opinion were Obama's most divisive actions?  Do you feel like Trump was "payback" for the division you felt under Obama?

I think one example Obama created an enormous divide was when he decided to engage in race relations following the legal shooting of Treyvon Martin. Whether he had a moral obligation to do this or not, at this juncture, doesn't really matter. What happened fallowing that was the state sponsored support of a racial narrative that was diminutive to suburban and rural whites and a refusal to uphold the law. 

Trump absolutely was a counter-reaction to that. The cancel culture that ferminated in the United States skewed polling statistics and the idea of a silent majority began to gain momentum in whispered circles. 

I think the reason Democrats have a hard time seeing Obama as an exasperation of the divide was because in their own echo chambers everything was peachy. Trump being elected was a shock but they saw him as a charismatic cult figure that swayed millions of voters against the US. They don't realize he didnt sway anyone. They already felt marginalized. They were free to discuss it until Trump took power and really only a year or so after that. 

To Sua Sponge's point, fair. But if anything 9/11 could have been a great oppurtunity for healing. We probably pissed it away with Iraq 2. 

[17D_guy]

7 minutes ago, drewpey said:

This is something I haven't heard before.  Up until now most republicans I spoke with are diametrically opposed to your statement.  They love his policies and what he has done, but claim to not like the man himself.  What Trump policies do you think will be discarded by the GOP in his absence?

I think they're going to modify the immigration stance, and maybe finally push into place good, legal immigration changes.  Perhaps take a look at the border in total (Canadian, increased human trafficking in ports). End "kids in cages" legislatively.

Get rid of traitors names for US military bases.

They'll definitely get back to caring about the deficit, and not robbing social security.

[dream big]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

And if he were to actually achieve bringing some of the country together, then here comes the left with the 25th amendment.

Yeah... Kamala will be your President by February, then this country will have real problems.  Will be entertaining to see Nikki Haley wipe the floor with her in 2024. 

[17D_guy]

4 minutes ago, FLEA said:

What happened fallowing that was the state sponsored support of a racial narrative that was diminutive to suburban and rural whites and a refusal to uphold the law. 

Was this pushing for more civil rights investigations into police abuses or something else? 

Quote

Trump absolutely was a counter-reaction to that. The cancel culture that ferminated in the United States skewed polling statistics and the idea of a silent majority began to gain momentum in whispered circles.

I think also the seeds sown by the right leaning news sources about him as the "worst President ever" further pushed that narrative along.  Obama did some shady shit, as all presidents do, but the vitriol of my friends who only consumed Fox surprised me.  I think there does need to be something done about the conglomerate media sources, both print, news and social media.  What that solution is...I don't know.  But the ability for them to spread misinformation without repercussion, or stifle speech to skew one way is cancer to a free society.

However, now that this election is over...is there a silent majority?  Between the loud/proud Trump supporters and the Biden supporters there's another space?  Trump supporters were never quiet, and only got louder as the election came closer.  I don't think there's some silent majority.  As some other commentators have said, this a repudiation of Trump, not of conservative/right-wing policies.  I agree with that, voted almost entirely red except for the President...despite what my friends/family think.

Quote

I think the reason Democrats have a hard time seeing Obama as an exasperation of the divide was because in their own echo chambers everything was peachy. Trump being elected was a shock but they saw him as a charismatic cult figure that swayed millions of voters against the US. They don't realize he didnt sway anyone. They already felt marginalized. They were free to discuss it until Trump took power and really only a year or so after that. 

Agreed.  I think if Trump had just taken COVID seriously we'd be having a completely different conversation.  It has hit minority communities pretty hard, and while he picked up more votes there (great!) it probably was  too much given the "racism in the white house" narrative on top of the plague.  Even if he kept tweeting like crazy, dog whistling to conspiracy and maybe racist groups/militias.  Anecdotal, but I had a lot of officer friends who're done with him for COVID response alone.  The "I'm not responsible" comment in particular hit my male friends hard.

[Seadogs]

54 minutes ago, drewpey said:

This is something I haven't heard before.  Up until now most republicans I spoke with are diametrically opposed to your statement.  They love his policies and what he has done, but claim to not like the man himself.  What Trump policies do you think will be discarded by the GOP in his absence?

You think Sua Sponte is Republican? That's as disingenuous as thinking there is no impropriety going on with the election. You all are jumping the gun on this one. Trump has not conceded yet and will fight this to the end. If there is impropriety found then he will win. I'm warning all of you lefties to be careful, you might be surprised when Dec. 14th comes. 

[Homestar]

All Trump had to do was have a semi-competent response to COVID-19. He couldn’t even manage semi-competent. 

[Homestar]

7 minutes ago, Seadogs said:

You think Sua Sponte is Republican? That's as disingenuous as thinking there is no impropriety going on with the election. You all are jumping the gun on this one. Trump has not conceded yet and will fight this to the end. If there is impropriety found then he will win. I'm warning all of you lefties to be careful, you might be surprised when Dec. 14th comes. 

You sound as unhinged as Trump does on Twitter today. 
 

And before you go name-calling, I’m no leftist. 
 

[Waingro]

3 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Biden's win was small, so not a mandate.

It's looking like he'll come away with 306 electoral votes, more than Trump won with in 2016. Which Kellyanne Conway at the time called a landslide and a blowout. 

 

You're right about the shifting demographics. Democrats should be concerned, especially in places like Florida. I think there are some weak areas for the GOP too, that they should look to shore up. Arizona was a surprise, and Texas was closer than it had any reason to be. 

[brickhistory]

Recounts likely, so it ain't over.

If Biden wins, it's vindication.

If Trump wins, it's shenanigans.

Have i got that about right?

 

 

 

Oh, and fcuk Pierre Delecto...epitomy of the GOP and why Trump arose.

[17D_guy]

14 minutes ago, brickhistory said:

Recounts likely, so it ain't over.

If Biden wins, it's vindication.

If Trump wins, it's shenanigans.

Have i got that about right?

Oh.. is this better?

If Biden wins, it's shenanigans.

If Trump wins, it's vindication.

 

Cause that's what we're doing right now.

[Sua Sponte]

18 minutes ago, brickhistory said:

Recounts likely, so it ain't over.

If Biden wins, it's vindication.

If Trump wins, it's shenanigans.

Have i got that about right?

 

 

 

Oh, and fcuk Pierre Delecto...epitomy of the GOP and why Trump arose.

How often do recounts change the outcome of an election? Oh, are we just recounting the states that were close initially and Trump lost? 

[Sua Sponte]

1 hour ago, Seadogs said:

You think Sua Sponte is Republican? That's as disingenuous as thinking there is no impropriety going on with the election. You all are jumping the gun on this one. Trump has not conceded yet and will fight this to the end. If there is impropriety found then he will win. I'm warning all of you lefties to be careful, you might be surprised when Dec. 14th comes. 

I'm just shocked that your election map was way off. Seems like you have the current political climate "dialed in."

[slackline]

30 minutes ago, brickhistory said:

Recounts likely, so it ain't over.

If Biden wins, it's vindication.

If Trump wins, it's shenanigans.

Have i got that about right?

 

 

 

Oh, and fcuk Pierre Delecto...epitomy of the GOP and why Trump arose.

Are you serious Clark?

 

Absolutely valid that there will be recounts.  Absolutely valid that Trump could still pull this one out.  He'll need some luck though:

From 2009 to 2019, there were 5,778 statewide general elections, according to the non-partisan group FairVote. In that span there were 31 completed recounts.  Less than 10% resulted in an overturned outcome.  Those that were overturned were in elections much closer than anything Trump is going to contest.  The overturned counts were with margins of less than .05%.  We're looking at over 2.5% in NV, .6% in AZ, .6% in WI, .2% in GA and .7% in PA.  I'm not too great of a mathematician, but none of those are less than point zero five percent...   

https://www.fairvote.org/a_survey_and_analysis_of_statewide_election_recounts

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (not uncommon), but it's the Trump camp that is crying about shenanigans in the elections.  Everyone else, I mean I haven't taken a poll or anything, but everyone else says that the system works.  We should let the system do its thing.  You realize the scale of coordination that would have had to take place IOT make it appear as though Trump was in the lead, then craftily overturn it slowly?  Yeah, sure the DNC is competent enough to pull that off.  Okay.  

 

More likely, as has been repeated ad naseum on here, on every news site, to include Fox News, this was predicted because Trump encouraged in-person voting instead of mail in voting.  That would give a lead initially to Trump, then a slowly diminishing lead eventually resulting in potential overturning of those leads.  Follow the logic train brick.  You guys keep claiming to love logic so much, but never seem to pay attention to it.  

 

So, I don't want you to feel like I didn't answer your question, no, no you did not get that right...