The Next President is...

[slackline]

1 hour ago, Seadogs said:

You think Sua Sponte is Republican? That's as disingenuous as thinking there is no impropriety going on with the election. You all are jumping the gun on this one. Trump has not conceded yet and will fight this to the end. If there is impropriety found then he will win. I'm warning all of you lefties to be careful, you might be surprised when Dec. 14th comes. 

Should we keep a running tally of your incredibly bold predictions?  You're on a roll.

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, Homestar said:

All Trump had to do was have a semi-competent response to COVID-19. He couldn’t even manage semi-competent. 

I just finished a whole paper on the COVID-19 response and I'm convinced it couldn't have played out differently under any other leadership. 

Geographically, COVID played out in 3 regions. Asia, Europe, and the US. Asia had a fairly easy time suppressing it due to a combination of cultural and political factors. For China, it was a fantastic demonstration of Confucian principles for a better society and the suppression of human rights for the common good. This was a narrative they honestly wanted. In Korea and Japan, your average citizen has a higher level of social responsibility than in Europe or the US.

So people have been comparing us to Europe. I've been in Europe since COVID began. (Almost, was actually in Asia as it started). What most people don't recognize, and if you talk to a German, Dutch, or Dane, they will tell you, is that they are tolerating lockdowns to the extent that they are because their countries run enormous social programs that have basically began paying people to not go to work. The effect on people's livelihoods has pretty much gone untouched. And because these countries do not have looming deficits, they have plenty of credit to borrow against to keep that going. 

The US is in a different pot. There is the balance of civil liberties and public health, the inadequacy of the CDC pandemic response plan (that was written under Obama by the way) and the inability to support masses of Americans long term from unemployment. I think the cards were against the US from the beginning to be the hardest hit. I do believe Trump earnestly was trying to not instill panic which is why he rejected visible signs of panic like masks. This is likely what his advisors were trying to tell him to do. However, I'm also strongly convinced that he has something like Asperger's syndrome, and he couldn't read the audience sensitively enough to realize this was having the reverse effect he thought it would. 

That said, Joe Biden is walking into a mine field and he doesn't realize it. The economic predictions are that the global economic collapse from COVID will actually function on a delay. 2023-2024 is the predicted year. The virus is also too far gone in society. He will never reverse the trends to a manageable level. Unless he somehow magically cures Corona in his first 6 months, I don't think he will survive the political fallout that is going to come from its wake. 

 

[slackline]

17 minutes ago, FLEA said:

The US is in a different pot. There is the balance of civil liberties and public health, the inadequacy of the CDC pandemic response plan (that was written under Obama by the way) and the inability to support masses of Americans long term from unemployment. I think the cards were against the US from the beginning to be the hardest hit. I do believe Trump earnestly was trying to not instill panic which is why he rejected visible signs of panic like masks. This is likely what his advisors were trying to tell him to do. However, I'm also strongly convinced that he has something like Asperger's syndrome, and he couldn't read the audience sensitively enough to realize this was having the reverse effect he thought it would. 

 

 

I agree with much of what you say, but I'm curious as to what you're basing your assumptions of Trump's "earnest" intent on, or why you think he would only be doing it because that is what is advisors were telling him to say initially.  

 

On the medical conditions stuff, I don't get why people with zero access to the individual, zero medical training, especially in that particular specialty feel free to speculate on medical conditions.  All these Monday morning quarterbacks claim sleepy Joe has dementia, and others say Trump is crazy or has Asperger's, or whatever.  Could it simply be that Joe Biden is a 77 year old man, so a little slower in speech?  I'm no expert, but I've talked to a lot of old people over the years.  They just aren't as spry as they used to be.  Could it be that Trump is simply an A-hole that thinks he's smarter than everyone else?  Everything you're saying could very well be true.  It's just interesting that everyone acts like they KNOW.  

Edited November 8, 2020 by slackline

[slackline]

You guys remember when Trump tweeted: "Vladimir Putin said today about Hillary and Dems: In my opinion it is humiliating.  "One must be able to lose with dignity." So True". He said that on Christmas Eve in 2016.  

For anyone else, that would feel pretty silly right about now.  But since he doesn't feel he lost, it doesn't apply.  Funny huh!?

Reminds me of when Obama read the mean tweet on Jimmy Kimmel.  Trump said Obama would go down as one of the worst presidents in history.  Obama then said, "At least I will have been a president..."  He even dropped the mic.  It was hilarious, but like Seadogs predictions, it didn't age well.  

[FLEA]

4 minutes ago, slackline said:

I agree with much of what you say, but I'm curious as to what you're basing your assumptions of Trump's "earnest" intent on, or why you think he would only be doing it because that is what is advisors were telling him to say initially.  

 

On the medical conditions stuff, I don't get why people with zero access to the individual, zero medical training, especially in that particular specialty feel free to speculate on medical conditions.  All these Monday morning quarterbacks claim sleepy Joe has dementia, and others say Trump is crazy or has Asperger's, or whatever.  Could it simply be that Joe Biden is a 77 year old man, so a little slower in speech?  I'm no expert, but I've talked to a lot of old people over the years.  They just aren't as spry as they used to be.  Could it be that Trump is simply an A-hole that thinks he's smarter than everyone else?  Everything you're saying could very well be true.  It's just interesting that everyone acts like they KNOW.  

Haha. No good answer on that one except that I have an overwhelmingly high faith in humanity that most people would just find naïve. I'm also looking at it from a rational stand point and he doesn't have a lot to gain by pushing the agenda the way he did. Only a very very small base of people actually thought mask wear was an infringement of their civil rights. Even if that group did exist inside his base, it was a small portion of his base at most, and he certainly wasn't going to lose them to a democrat over something as silly as masks. 

 

Regarding Joe's medical condition, I think we should all address the elephant in the room which is we really need to start thinking about an age cap on the presidency, and any political office for that matter. I do speculate on his health, but I think the more damning trend is that we keep electing people that really have no stake in holding this country together other than to set a legacy for themselves. They are also too far disconnected from the working class. (Shit most people their age haven't been working class in 20 years, they're retired!)

I'm strongly starting to believe if you haven't started your first term by 65 you need to just step aside and let a younger actor take the stage.

[SurelySerious]

9 minutes ago, slackline said:

I agree with much of what you say, but I'm curious as to what you're basing your assumptions of Trump's "earnest" intent on, or why you think he would only be doing it because that is what is advisors were telling him to say initially.  

 

On the medical conditions stuff, I don't get why people with zero access to the individual, zero medical training, especially in that particular specialty feel free to speculate on medical conditions.  All these Monday morning quarterbacks claim sleepy Joe has dementia, and others say Trump is crazy or has Asperger's, or whatever.  Could it simply be that Joe Biden is a 77 year old man, so a little slower in speech?  I'm no expert, but I've talked to a lot of old people over the years.  They just aren't as spry as they used to be.  Could it be that Trump is simply an A-hole that thinks he's smarter than everyone else?  Everything you're saying could very well be true.  It's just interesting that everyone acts like they KNOW.  

I don’t know, but I do think that a) from listening to Joe there is no further plan, just talk of “a plan” for Covid, b) the President no matter who right now cannot do anything to actually affect how Covid goes, and c) he’s not actually going to DO anything but then say “my plan worked because I listened to science and experts.”

Trump would absolutely do the same regarding having done nothing of efficacy and claiming victory.  

[slackline]

2 minutes ago, FLEA said:

 

I'm strongly starting to believe if you haven't started your first term by 65 you need to just step aside and let a younger actor take the stage.

I couldn't agree more with you on this.  I don't think you should be able to run for president until 50, reason being you've actually lived some life to have experience on a large swath of subjects, yet young enough to still be "in touch" with younger people.  No older than 65 because you're now officially too old to really be in touch with what is going on.  Only my opinion.  No data to back it up.

[Guardian]

All Trump had to do was have a semi-competent response to COVID-19. He couldn’t even manage semi-competent. 

People keep saying this. But I haven’t heard one suggestion that is different than what he did.

Really. I haven’t heard another suggestion as to how it could have been better or different with statements as to how they know it would have been better.

Please, tell me,what could have been done better when the entire Democratic Party was wrapped up in Russia, calling trump a xenophobic and still to this day have no better suggestions.

[Homestar]

2 hours ago, FLEA said:

There is the balance of civil liberties and public health

This is true....so let me rephrase: All Trump had to do was produce semi-competent leadership on the pandemic.  Seriously, if the man would have simply come out in support of masks he probably wins the election.  But he couldn't bring himself to even say the words.  Because he's an idiot.

[Homestar]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

People keep saying this. But I haven’t heard one suggestion that is different than what he did.

Really. I haven’t heard another suggestion as to how it could have been better or different with statements as to how they know it would have been better.

Please, tell me,what could have been done better when the entire Democratic Party was wrapped up in Russia, calling trump a xenophobic and still to this day have no better suggestions.

Well, Trump could have established a cabinet level position on COVID response.  Heck, he could have simply put his HHS secretary out front and just stepped out of the camera and shut the hell up and it would have been something at least.

But there's nothing I can say that will make you step back and realize what a complete and utter failure this President has been in nearly every aspect of leadership.  You would not tolerate this kind of leadership at the squadron, yet you think that it somehow works at the national level.

[SurelySerious]

7 minutes ago, Homestar said:

Well, Trump could have established a cabinet level position on COVID response.  Heck, he could have simply put his HHS secretary out front and just stepped out of the camera and shut the hell up and it would have been something at least.

But there's nothing I can say that will make you step back and realize what a complete and utter failure this President has been in nearly every aspect of leadership.  You would not tolerate this kind of leadership at the squadron, yet you think that it somehow works at the national level.

But still...as President what ACTION would Biden have done differently that would have had a real, substantial effect? Literally present a more coherent presence, is that it? 
 

Edit: because from listening to Biden...I don’t think he has any actionable plan apart from appearing to “listen to experts,” because what action that stems from Presidential powers would change what is currently happening?

Edited November 8, 2020 by SurelySerious

[Homestar]

9 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:

Literally present a more coherent presence, is that it? 

Yes. That's it. Literally.

[Guardian]

Well, Trump could have established a cabinet level position on COVID response.  Heck, he could have simply put his HHS secretary out front and just stepped out of the camera and shut the hell up and it would have been something at least.
But there's nothing I can say that will make you step back and realize what a complete and utter failure this President has been in nearly every aspect of leadership.  You would not tolerate this kind of leadership at the squadron, yet you think that it somehow works at the national level.

Dude. Creating a cabinet level position. Or having an HHS secretary deal with it isn’t a plan or a solution. What would those individuals done that would have helped with covid. That is the question.

[Homestar]

Just now, Guardian said:

Dude. Creating a cabinet level position. Or having an HHS secretary deal with it isn’t a plan or a solution. What would those individuals done that would have helped with covid. That is the question.

Sigh....

I already told you .... I'm not going to write a white paper on this.

I could list 30 things that the president could have done in response to COVID and the response would be the same..... BuT WhAt CoULd He hAvE doNe????

[Guardian]

You assume a lot. You didn’t try to write down things. Just claim you could and that I would respond by ignoring you.

Man that is some good arguing and point making there!

[Guardian]

Yes. That's it. Literally.

So a presence is a solution for COVID? Wasn’t mike pence the head of the covid team or task force?

[Homestar]

6 minutes ago, Guardian said:

You assume a lot. You didn’t try to write down things. Just claim you could and that I would respond by ignoring you.

Man that is some good arguing and point making there!

But, I'm not wrong.

And....On January 20th this national nightmare will be over.

[SurelySerious]

27 minutes ago, Homestar said:

But, I'm not wrong.

And....On January 20th this national nightmare will be over.

And the next begins, where we start walking back our foreign policy gains on China, Russia, and Iran, but the POTUS appears "more coherent."  It's all about trade offs.

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, SurelySerious said:

But still...as President what ACTION would Biden have done differently that would have had a real, substantial effect? Literally present a more coherent presence, is that it? 
 

Edit: because from listening to Biden...I don’t think he has any actionable plan apart from appearing to “listen to experts,” because what action that stems from Presidential powers would change what is currently happening?

Let’s assume, for argument’s sake, that Trump’s policy response was identical to a hypothetical alternate president. You don’t think that rhetoric alone can have a net positive or negative effect on a crisis? I’m sorry but the guy who publicly advocates injecting bleach into the population writ large does not promote confidence from said population. This “only policy matters” take is a cop out by those trying to justify placing an utter moron into the highest office in the land to themselves. Yes, policy matters, but so does character. “The ends justify the means” has never been a morally effective argument in this country. The character of our leaders is a pillar of what has allowed the United States to (rightly) claim the moral high ground for most of its existence and may be the most devastating casualty of the last four years. 

[LiquidSky]

4 hours ago, Guardian said:

Dude. Creating a cabinet level position. Or having an HHS secretary deal with it isn’t a plan or a solution. What would those individuals done that would have helped with covid. That is the question.

For starters his administration literally could have just not nixed the pandemic response team. 

https://apnews.com/article/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a

Biden even called the Trump administration out on it months before covid hit:

https://twitter.com/joebiden/status/1187829299207954437?lang=en

Edited November 9, 2020 by LiquidSky

[drewpey]

He downplayed it and doubled down on his base.  It's literally what he always does.  The far right thought it was a hoax, the far left was terrified and wanted to shut everything down, and most folks in the middle wanted a tempered response with a dash of human in it.  Instead he stoked conspiracies for months, created drama with his highly popular NIAID director, and tried to change the subject away from a global pandemic killing more citizens each day.  It didn't work, and across the country everyone to the left of "tin foil hat" on the political spectrum got to watch the spectacle of trumpies losing their shit in public because they had to put on a mask while everyone else is just trying to survive and pay bills.  It was embarassing to see the most powerful man in the world encouraging these people.  The bar was super low...own up for not taking it seriously initially, act legitimately concerned, plead with folks to chip in and wear a mask, set a good example.  It's fucking leadership 101.  Trump was determined to win on "hard-mode" and he repeatedly watched softball pitches fly by.  Thank god.

Edited November 9, 2020 by drewpey

[Guardian]

But, I'm not wrong.
And....On January 20th this national nightmare will be over.

How do you know you aren’t wrong? Do you understand what an assumption is?

[SurelySerious]

1 minute ago, Prozac said:

Let’s assume, for argument’s sake, that Trump’s policy response was identical to a hypothetical alternate president. You don’t think that rhetoric alone can have a net positive or negative effect on a crisis? I’m sorry but the guy who publicly advocates injecting bleach into the population writ large does not promote confidence from said population. This “only policy matters” take is a cop out by those trying to justify placing an utter moron into the highest office in the land to themselves. Yes, policy matters, but so does character. “The ends justify the means” has never been a morally effective argument in this country. The character of our leaders is a pillar of what has allowed the United States to (rightly) claim the moral high ground for most of its existence and may be the most devastating casualty of the last four years. 

Biden doesn't have any true character gain.  The dude is a facade.  He has no actual plan in mind, just words along the lines of "trust me, I have a plan."  Also, I find that after 47 years he's really not done anything as a public official.  Quit justifying Biden because he's "not Trump."  Not being Trump doesn't make him good.

[Guardian]

Let’s assume, for argument’s sake, that Trump’s policy response was identical to a hypothetical alternate president. You don’t think that rhetoric alone can have a net positive or negative effect on a crisis? I’m sorry but the guy who publicly advocates injecting bleach into the population writ large does not promote confidence from said population. This “only policy matters” take is a cop out by those trying to justify placing an utter moron into the highest office in the land to themselves. Yes, policy matters, but so does character. “The ends justify the means” has never been a morally effective argument in this country. The character of our leaders is a pillar of what has allowed the United States to (rightly) claim the moral high ground for most of its existence and may be the most devastating casualty of the last four years. 

He said inject bleech? I’m not aware of that. I saw some things where he talked about disinfectant and figuring out if it was possible to do inside the body but I don’t think he said inject cleaning products.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/24/context-what-donald-trump-said-about-disinfectant-/

[Sim]

More glitches. Opsie again. 

 

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