The Next President is...

[Homestar]

4 hours ago, M2 said:

My father got a vote-by-mail letter in Florida.

Problem is, he passed away over 14 years ago...

Don't tell me there's nothing wrong with the system!

Did you check a box on it and mail it back in?

Did anyone?

[CharlieHotel47]

Did you check a box on it and mail it back in?
Did anyone?

Someone in China did it for the Dems already


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[M2]

1 hour ago, Homestar said:

Did you check a box on it and mail it back in?

Did anyone?

No, my mother shredded it.  Some people still have morals...

[M2]

Best meme of the past week...

[M2]

A close second...

[FLEA]

This was a long but pretty interesting read. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/collapsing-levels-trust-are-devastating-america/616581/

[Guardian]

It’s like a really bad divorce.

[17D_guy]

5 hours ago, Seadogs said:

https://cdn.donaldjtrump.com/public-files/press_assets/2020-11-09-complaint-as-filed.pdf

You need to take an anger management class. You seem way too angry, especially after your guy "won".

Fantastic read, thanks for posting that. No sarcasm. I love lawyer shit, and I learned more about PA elections than I ever wanted to.  For everyone else here's what that  lawsuit is asking the court to do -
 

Quote

i. An order, declaration, and/or injunction that prohibits the Defendant County Boards of Elections and Defendant Secretary Boockvar from certifying the results of the 2020 General Election in Pennsylvania on a Commonwealth-wide basis;

ii.As an alternative to the first request for relief, an order, declaration, and/or injunction that prohibits Defendants from certifying the results of the General Elections which include the tabulation of absentee and mail-in ballots for which Plaintiffs’ watchers were prevented from observing during the pre-canvass and canvass in the County Election Boards

;iii.In addition to the alternative requests for relief, an order, declaration, and/or injunction that prohibits Defendants from certifying the results of the General Elections which include the tabulation of absentee and mail-in ballots which Defendants improperly permitted to be cured;

iv.A temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction granting the above relief during the pendency of this action;v.Plaintiffs’ reasonable costs and expenses of this action, including attorneys’ fees; and cost; and

vi.All other further relief to which Plaintiffs might be entitled.

TL;DR - stop certifying the election; or certify it except for the votes we couldn't see and don't count the cured votes; and/or give us fees.

It will be interesting to read what the defendants response is.  This is only the claims for plaintiff, which of course frame it in the best way possible for them. Given the previous lawsuit outcomes in PA...I'm doubtful, but also not a lawyer so I don't know shit.

For @Seadogs you know what's not in there?  Thousands of affidavits, claims of thousands coming, or any affidavits actually.  There's use of the words: "poll workers claim;" "one," "two," and "numerous" claims.  But those aren't affidavits.  Besides the campaign there's only 2 other plaintiffs.

Even taking them all together in this lawsuit...not thousands of affidavits, or even claims.  Maybe 20...maybe.  Did you read it before you posted it, or just assumed it supported your claim?  It's a good read. 

I don't think in the end they're going to get thousands of people claiming fraud, they'll get maybe a couple hundred.  Now, is that enough to get the justices to act, then get a recount, and that recount push the needle far enough right in enough counties to change the outcome?  WHO KNOWS?!  It sure is exciting though!  I've got zero problems with the legal process working it's way through.  I'm following Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire on this one relatively closely.

Question for the Trump supporters though, lets say these lawsuits go nowhere...still massive voter fraud conspiracy/stolen election?  At any point do you accept the results?  What if massive fraud is proved in PA, but nowhere else and Biden still takes the EC?

I also apologize for the name calling, it was outta line.  I voted R every office but Pres, and Attorney General in my state.  The AG is too in bed with Big Tech for my liking.  I don't believe we're that opposed in principal.  I just never got the zealous support for any candidate...ever.

[Guardian]

Yes. That’s the point. Republicans and democrats alike will accept the results of this election if Biden legitimately wins. But there are red flags and a lot of them to be investigated. I don’t care who you are left or right. Part of the greatness of our country is the election system. And if it’s fake or corrupt then that needs to be fixed. Regardless of who wins.

That’s a republican view

Democrat is dispute for 4 years if we lose call the other side treasonous racists that need tracked if they win.

[Negatory]

Okay, last example of a conservative movement gone wrong. How about the totally peaceful “Unite the Right Rally” in Charlottesville?

Oh, doesn’t count either?

If you can’t see the double standard of associating the dem party with rioters, anarchists, and looters while not associating the republicans with white supremacists and domestic terrorists, I don’t have much for you. You don’t get to pick and choose.

When it comes down to it, they’re both absurd comparisons. The truth is the average dem and the average rep are both boring, non murdering, non rioting people. I don’t support rioters burning down a store any more than you do.

[SurelySerious]

10 minutes ago, Negatory said:

Okay, last example of a conservative movement gone wrong. How about the totally peaceful “Unite the Right Rally” in Charlottesville?

Oh, doesn’t count either?

If you can’t see the double standard of associating the dem party with rioters, anarchists, and looters while not associating the republicans with white supremacists and domestic terrorists, I don’t have much for you. You don’t get to pick and choose.

When it comes down to it, they’re both absurd comparisons. The truth is the average dem and the average rep are both boring, non murdering, non rioting people. I don’t support rioters burning down a store any more than you do.

You’re falsely applying a “double standard” here because only one side of the political spectrum was rioting, looting, and burning down cities across the entire country this summer. Incontrovertible fact. Widespread, affected people broadly across the country, not some one-off rally. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by SurelySerious

[Guardian]

What happened in Charlottesville? Isn’t that where the act of violence was one dude driving his car through the crowds?

Correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t remember the specifics. I remember there were far right groups not mainstream republicans. That’s what we are saying. The left supports what is going on in the riots since Mr Floyd’s death. The right doesn’t support what happened in Charlottesville nor does our current president.

[Negatory]

15 minutes ago, Guardian said:

What happened in Charlottesville? Isn’t that where the act of violence was one dude driving his car through the crowds?

Correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t remember the specifics. I remember there were far right groups not mainstream republicans. That’s what we are saying. The left supports what is going on in the riots since Mr Floyd’s death. The right doesn’t support what happened in Charlottesville nor does our current president.

I think that’s where you’re confused. Many on the left have lost support for the protests, especially after they have devolved to riots. I know most of the people I’ve talked to feel this way.

Youre probably right that more dems would say they support protests. I don’t think almost any of them support burning stuff down.

BLM started with reasonable intentions. But it has been brigaded into a shell of itself.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Negatory

[Guardian]

Ok. Point taken.

What about dems or popular dems (Michelle Obama) who support the riots or say that a very small percentage of the protests are riots and the rest are peaceful. I forget her exact verbiage.

[17D_guy]

51 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Yes. That’s the point. Republicans and democrats alike will accept the results of this election if Biden legitimately wins.

That’s a republican view

To be clear, you're saying if the lawsuits are dismissed for lack of standing, cause, non-procedural issues, etc., then it's still a legitimate election for Biden? I would suggest that some people on this board, and a ton in my FB feed, who wear that label disagree with that assessment.  Where is your line for the judiciaries hand in deciding the election, especially since the Courts have been very reluctant so far to get very involved?

1 hour ago, FLEA said:

This was a long but pretty interesting read. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/collapsing-levels-trust-are-devastating-america/616581/

Fantastic read, thanks for sharing.

I also happened to come across this, about some GI's taking extreme voter corruption head on.  Book just came out about it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

It's been made apparent that my time on here isn't as appreciated by my family as it is by me.  Additionally, my daughter was directly exposed to COVID..so I'm going to hunker down, lurk, and take care of what's important. Thank you all for the conversation and different opinions.

[Guardian]

I’m saying that if the courts say it’s legitimate or even if they don’t and a recount or adjustment happens and Biden still wins that he then becomes our president. Whether we like it our not.

The proper system for dealing with the red flags is the court not the press or social media. Calls for violence, labels, or just plain hate coming back from the left because of it shows what they have on the inside. I’ll leave it at that.

[Sim]

.....maybe?

[Sim]

How deep does it go? 

[Pooter]

14 hours ago, pcola said:

I’m genuinely curious to hear from a few pro-Biden/never-Trumpers just exactly what do you foresee that will improve in your life under a Biden presidency. Will your job security/satisfaction increase? Your wealth or family’s security? Your satisfaction with your identity as an American? I for one have a negative outlook on all of those areas. Curious to hear other perspectives.


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Pretty much nothing will change for my day to day life under Biden. I don't believe that any president has much of an impact on anyone's daily life at a policy level. But I won't have to do daily mental gymnastics to justify the stream of consciousness Twitter rantings of an egotistical asshat so there's that. 

[Homestar]

24 minutes ago, Sim said:

How deep does it go? 

Not very deep.

[ViperMan]

10 hours ago, Negatory said:

4) One of the biggest ones is probably income inequality. Trickle down economics does not work. I don’t care how many times you’ve been spoon fed that line. Productivity over the last 50 years has gone up - wages have stayed the same (inflation). The system is rigged against America’s youth whether you look at college that costs 70k a year (look up the costs), a dwindling job market (it’s been like this pre-Covid) that was propped up by min wage gig economy jobs, or the disastrous housing crisis. I’m glad I’m in the military, as it solved a lot of these problems, but is the American dream still alive as much as everyone says it is? Policies to increase min wage, provide healthcare, reduce student loans, support unions/workers rights - these will benefit the whole of America. It’s hard to vote for a “billionaire” who literally paid less than I did in tax for multiple years. And before you say he was just playing by the rules, if he cared about the system, he would make a concerted effort to fix the glitches.

...

6) The federal reserve has been used for quantitative easing in a dangerous precedent to prop up the stock market. The US government basically propped up $3T of stocks THIS YEAR and then the president took credit for the economy. The economy is a sham and the fed balance sheet should stop being manipulated. We’re using the coffers of our children for republican talking points.

...

It'd be great if everyone could make more money, but honestly, the only thing raising minimum wage does is push current workers (i.e. me) closer to it. It's nice to make a high(er) multiple of the minimum wage - it's dangerous the lower that multiple becomes. Two other things are overlooked with this argument. The first is that the true minimum wage is $0/hr - no matter what anyone says. The second is that the value of someone's hour of labor is not a fixed amount, and in some cases it's actually negative. Minimum wage seems like a "quick fix" because it appears to immediately get you to the desired end-state, but neither of those facts is side-stepped by it, but it sure does play well with a sector of the working class. Not to mention employers simply adapt the number of employees or the number of hours they work. These things always have unavoidable "side-effects."

The other major factor (or multiple factors) in reference to wages is deflation. We're all worried about inflation, but ask yourself why the Fed is struggling so hard to get it up (sts). It's because there are MAJOR deflationary forces in operation right now. One is technology - which is hugely deflationary (https://www.zdnet.com/article/unstoppable-tech-driven-deflation-will-be-the-next-economic-challenge/). The second is the aging demographic make-up of our society and the concordant reality that people achieve peak spending at an approximate age of 46, at which time it begins decreasing. The higher the average age of an American becomes, the further from that magic number (46) we'll get, and the harder deflation will bite.

In reference to student loans, the moral hazard is extreme (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard). Loaning money is a risky proposition, but at the same time, making good loans is a money-making opportunity. So my question is 'why doesn't the university system back the loans themselves' since they stand to profit from it? Could it be because they don't believe in their own product? The question immediately answers itself. Good loans make money and net positive return. It's because all of the risk has been externalized to the US taxpayer courtesy of the US government. With cost and risk externalized, what incentive is there to not admitting literally everyone? The only long-term solution to this problem is to fully remove the government from the student loan business and allow universities to provide loans to their most promising candidates. As a side-benefit, the positive effect on "X-studies" degrees would be almost instant. The current system is unsustainable. What's in a name? That which we call communism, by any other name would smell just as sour.

That said, I do agree that student loan debt is a problem, but if we're going to agree to waive a magic wand and "forgive" debt, then we absolutely do need to address restitution for those guys that are like him: 

To address the Fed, I agree wholeheartedly. I would only add that we've been overspending for a much longer time than Trump has been in office. Conventional wisdom holds that the Obama years were prosperous, but would you call running up massive credit card debt prosperity when you're unable to pay your bills?

[HercDude]

10 hours ago, M2 said:

My father got a vote-by-mail letter in Florida.

Problem is, he passed away over 14 years ago...

Don't tell me there's nothing wrong with the system!

What is a vote-by-mail letter? Something reminding him to vote?

Unless it's a ballot, what the hell does it matter?

 

If your deceased father was mailed a ballot and voted, you can find evidence of that here:

https://www.dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/check-your-voter-status-and-polling-place/ballot-information-and-status-lookup/

 

If you return negative results, this argument is non-existent. 

 

"Whether you call it Vote by Mail or Absentee Voting, in Florida the election system is Safe and Secure, Tried and True."

                                                                                                                --Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States

 

 

[Guardian]

Pretty much nothing will change for my day to day life under Biden. I don't believe that any president has much of an impact on anyone's daily life at a policy level. But I won't have to do daily mental gymnastics to justify the stream of consciousness Twitter rantings of an egotistical asshat so there's that. 

As a military member Trump had a positive effect on my life

I don’t know if you will find to many business owners that don’t think Trump had a positive impact on their businesses.

Trump had a positive effect on minorities and the jobless with his business friendly push for the government.

[Homestar]

24 minutes ago, Guardian said:

As a military member Trump had a positive effect on my life

I don’t know if you will find to many business owners that don’t think Trump had a positive impact on their businesses.

Trump had a positive effect on minorities and the jobless with his business friendly push for the government.

As a military member Trump has caused me to greatly doubt the ability of the CinC to lead the nation in a time of crisis.  That has been an overall negative effect on my life.

My wife is a small business owner: no effect one way or another....local politics and issues have much more impact than who is in the WH.

I suspect that you won't find many minorities and/or jobless who are proud to have DJT in the WH.

A question I've posed in this forum before and gotten little response from DJT devotees: Would you want him as your Wg/CC or Sq/CC?  I recognize that a political leader is a different beast than a military leader, but I simply can't wrap my mind around how someone would follow what DJT is putting out there.

[Guardian]

Interesting question. On somethings yes, break through the status quo and the norm way the Air Force or at least the base does things.

On other things my immediate thought and reaction is no because he hasn’t had the experience in the Air Force our current leaders have. But then I laugh to myself because a lot of our current leaders are ineffective and the fact that the Don stepped into a job that most people have a lot of different and specific poly sci back ground and did it.but not only did he do it, he set our country through 4 of the most prosperous years in its history in many categories. And that burns a lot of people and the media. But that doesn’t make it any less true.

So yeah, I’m game. Let’s see how it works. Funny thing is my vote doesn’t count in the military. It does in the country.