The Next President is...

[Guardian]

And before that, the right spent eight years arguing Barack Obama was an illegitimate Muslim born in Kenya. And before THAT, the right spent eight years arguing that Bill Clinton was illegitimate because Ross Perot had given him the 1992 election. Also, Newt was pissed Willy could get a blowjob on the job and he couldn’t. How deep down the rabbit hole do you want to dive for an argument that doesn’t justify what have become truly undemocratic actions by many people calling themselves Republicans?

Prozac

So your claim is the entire right or at least as many of the right as today said BO was illegitimate and all the other republican ideas were that the right was wronged?

Same thing for the left? As many on the left that thought Hillary should have won or that frump colluded or deserved to be impeached thought all of the previous potentially left thoughts?

[TreeA10]

2 hours ago, Prozac said:

And before that, the right spent eight years arguing Barack Obama was an illegitimate Muslim born in Kenya. And before THAT, the right spent eight years arguing that Bill Clinton was illegitimate because Ross Perot had given him the 1992 election. Also, Newt was pissed Willy could get a blowjob on the job and he couldn’t. How deep down the rabbit hole do you want to dive for an argument that doesn’t justify what have become truly undemocratic actions by many people calling themselves Republicans?

Yes, there were folks way out at the end of the spectrum that said some stupid $hit so true statement.  But that has been true ON BOTH SIDES for some time.  Nothing surprising.  Also, the media has always had a left leaning bent but that veneer was taken off in the sheer hatred of Trump.  The long list of "mis-reported", some might call lies, allegations over the last 4 years is quite lengthy.  Trump said some stupid crap but the errors in reporting from anonymous sources lean one way and press credibility is in the dumpster.  Trump engaged the press while BIden hid.  Trump was asked and he answered a ton of questions, mostly hostile while Biden was asked piercing questions about his choice of ice cream or the media commented on his socks.  And then there was tanking the Hunter Biden story by the press to defend their candidate.  So, again, a large part of the population of our country has a reason to not trust the media or others in DC and wouldn't be surprised cheating happened.  A fair and impartial media would go a long way to solve that problem. 

No accounting for those former members of the Intel community making bogus claims of Russian false information in the Hunter Biden laptop case or the Trump Russian collusion fiction.  https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/dec/13/hunter-biden-probe-politicized-intelligence-commun/

Media tanking the Hunter Biden story.  https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/12/14/hunter_biden_news_should_shame_dismissive_media_outlets_144837.html

Politicians lie, say stupid crap, and get involved in money making schemes.  It's been going on for some time and we have survived it.  However, what scares me is the media, both news and social, have now taken deliberate steps to control information through commission of spreading false stories or the omission of reporting on stories deemed detrimental to one side.  I'm not sure we can survive if only one side is held accountable.

[17D_guy]

4 minutes ago, TreeA10 said:

Yes, there were folks way out at the end of the spectrum that said some stupid $hit so true statement. 

Including the current Prez before he was elected.  I wonder if he was able to find the real birth certificate once he was sworn in?

[TreeA10]

1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

Including the current Prez before he was elected.  I wonder if he was able to find the real birth certificate once he was sworn in?

We can play "whatabout" tennis all day long and just keeping knocking that ball back and forth over the net.  Lord knows both sides have enough material to volley. 

Some polls are showing 36% overall of the population and 70% of Republicans lacking confidence in our voting system which translates to @ 50 million people.  Do you have any suggestions that might solve problems with faith in the election system going forward?  Or, do we accept the lack of confidence and let it fester?

[Homestar]

I think the issue is that most of the country believes that the lack of confidence is misplaced due to the President of the United States pushing a false narrative. Unless the President changes the narrative that 70% number will never change. 
 

Actual voter fraud and inconsistencies are secondary to the narrative Trump is pushing. 

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, TreeA10 said:

We can play "whatabout" tennis all day long and just keeping knocking that ball back and forth over the net.  Lord knows both sides have enough material to volley. 

Some polls are showing 36% overall of the population and 70% of Republicans lacking confidence in our voting system which translates to @ 50 million people.  Do you have any suggestions that might solve problems with faith in the election system going forward?  Or, do we accept the lack of confidence and let it fester?

Here's a wild suggestion: the sitting president of the United States could refrain from pushing conspiracy nonsense all day every day. 
 

It won't solve the problem completely, but trump conceding and working for a smooth transition would go a long way towards shutting up both CNN and the proud boys. 

[17D_guy]

3 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

We can play "whatabout" tennis all day long and just keeping knocking that ball back and forth over the net.  Lord knows both sides have enough material to volley. 

Some polls are showing 36% overall of the population and 70% of Republicans lacking confidence in our voting system which translates to @ 50 million people.  Do you have any suggestions that might solve problems with faith in the election system going forward?  Or, do we accept the lack of confidence and let it fester?

Yea, the President can stop saying it was stolen and express confidence in the system with caveats for the non-election impacting amount of fraud that takes place. 

Otherwise, nope.  Trumpists will continue to claim for all time that it was a robbery otherwise. Same as when you get a toxic leader anywhere, it sucks until they're actually gone, but if they've convinced the minions to be toxic...it last for a long-long time.

[Sim]

3 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Trumpists will continue to claim for all time that it was a robbery otherwise

 

[17D_guy]

58 minutes ago, Sim said:

 

and proving my point. Thanks!

[DosXX]

Look at this lead! Only one in 69 quadrillion chance for Biden to have come back from this if the ratio remained the same. Monstrous Kraken incoming.

Trust the p l a n.

[Negatory]

On 12/12/2020 at 7:38 PM, brabus said:

Ballots....like I could have filled in bubbles for candidates, etc. Have shredded all of them. Asinine this shit happens, and way too often. 

Sample ballots in states have bubbles for candidates.

https://www.vbgov.com/government/departments/voter-registrar/Documents/Sample Ballots pdf files only/2020/November/SAMPLEBALLOT.pdf

In fact, sample ballots being burned accounted for a large portion of the fake voter fraud videos shared on social media.

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, Ligma C-5 said:

You woke up the angry leftists 😂

It's pretty entertaining to watch you think that any part of this was factual, relevant, or clever.

History is not going to look kindly on trumpers like you who insist on clinging to their alternate reality. But history books are written by  aCaDeMic LiBTarDs anyways so who cares what they think amirite?!!!

[Pooter]

On 12/1/2020 at 7:31 PM, Pooter said:

Barr will probably just be the next one in the administration to get canned like the last trump nominee who said the election was generally secure. You know.. as part of the completely normal administration turnover. 

It shouldn't be this easy to call something like this two weeks in advance. Just waiting on Rudy now for my "normal administration turnover" bingo card. 

[pawnman]

9 hours ago, Ligma C-5 said:

You woke up the angry leftists 😂

Nah, just people who actually care more about the country than we do about Trump's ego.

I wasn't rooting for Biden...but the man won the election.  Everything that's happened since is just serving to erode faith in the election system.  All to serve the whim of someone who has always played fast and loose with the rules.

I've benefited from the Trump presidency and I'd have been happy to see four more years...but it's time to let this one go, my man.

[Prozac]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:15 AM, TreeA10 said:

Yes, there were folks way out at the end of the spectrum that said some stupid $hit so true statement.  But that has been true ON BOTH SIDES for some time. 

Exactly. Simply pointing out your original argument that all of this legitimacy nonsense was a product of the last four years is false.  As you point out, it goes much further back.  

On 12/14/2020 at 8:00 PM, TreeA10 said:

The left already did this when they lost and spent the next four years denigrating the election process attributing collusion, Russian interference, Russian hacking, etc as causal factors to their candidate losing. We have swapped positions with the right now expressing doubts to the legitimacy of the system the left spent tearing down. Media consistency would go a long way towards repairing faith in the system but their blatant left leaning bias isn't going to let that happen.  

Personally, I think Newt Gingrich gets a lot of credit for putting us on the fractured course we’re on. Many here may disagree but I found this article to be an interesting read & you might too: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/11/newt-gingrich-says-youre-welcome/570832/

[kaputt]

4 hours ago, pawnman said:

Nah, just people who actually care more about the country than we do about Trump's ego.

I wasn't rooting for Biden...but the man won the election.  Everything that's happened since is just serving to erode faith in the election system.  All to serve the whim of someone who has always played fast and loose with the rules.

I've benefited from the Trump presidency and I'd have been happy to see four more years...but it's time to let this one go, my man.

This exactly. I voted for Trump twice and still think he was the best candidate in both elections. However, I haven’t seen anything that shows me there was actually widespread voter fraud. 
 

I do think there are some weak points in our system that need to be shored up, including a consistent system for mail in voting and a good way to track absentee ballots. I know of a case of someone voting absentee in a state they no longer lived in because they were lazy and hadn’t changed their ID or voter registration. Were things like that enough to sway the election? I don’t think so and haven’t seen any real evidence of it that convinces me. But, I do think we should always be striving to clean up even minor election discrepancies to ensure that all citizens can have faith in the process. 
 

Beyond that though, it’s not hard for me, even as a Trump voter, to see him losing. I personally know three women who voted for Trump in ‘16 and Biden in ‘20, based almost completely off his personality. It’s not hard to imagine there were millions more just like them. Trump’s greatest weakness was always his inability to STFU. I liked many of the things he did but frequently found myself cringing as he would immediately put his foot in his mouth seconds after a solid achievement. 
 

It’s time to turn the page and let the democrats lay in the bed they made themselves. Biden-Harris is still, imo, one of the worst pairings we’ve ever put into the White House. A half assed offering of a moderate who is likely losing his mental capacity and an unpopular leftist that comes from the most poorly run state in our country. If Trump would just exit the stage for a bit we might actually get the chance to see what a terrible offering this next presidency is going to be. 
 

 

[brabus]

15 hours ago, Negatory said:

Sample ballots in states have bubbles for candidates.

https://www.vbgov.com/government/departments/voter-registrar/Documents/Sample Ballots pdf files only/2020/November/SAMPLEBALLOT.pdf

In fact, sample ballots being burned accounted for a large portion of the fake voter fraud videos shared on social media.

You know what actually surprises me, that there are dudes on here who apparently don’t see shit like this as a big deal. To the extent they either ignore it, or are incredulous to the fact it happens. To that point, you and others actually are trying to argue a well educated adult who has voted in many elections doesn’t know the difference between a ballot app vs. sample ballot vs. actual ballot. It’s laughable and sad at the same time, but enjoy keeping that cranium buried deep in the sand. 

[17D_guy]

2 hours ago, kaputt said:

It’s time to turn the page and let the democrats lay in the bed they made themselves. Biden-Harris is still, imo, one of the worst pairings we’ve ever put into the White House. A half assed offering of a moderate who is likely losing his mental capacity and an unpopular leftist that comes from the most poorly run state in our country. If Trump would just exit the stage for a bit we might actually get the chance to see what a terrible offering this next presidency is going to be.

This is a fantastic point.  If he stays on message (which if you check his twitter...he will) the left will have that to point to for distraction for however long it lasts.  His lackeys will also cause this to happen. The fracturing of the Conservatives will continue to weaken the voting base.  It's not that weak now (re: House seats gained, kept Senate), but at some point there will probably be candidates Donny doesn't like..what happens then?  These folks are clamoring for either Trump to run again in 2024, or his kids to.  That's an automatic no from me and a lot of my friends.

Quote

But, I do think we should always be striving to clean up even minor election discrepancies to ensure that all citizens can have faith in the process. 

We all need to get involved in local government.  Go to you city council meetings, volunteer at polling places, help with the elections.  Most of the "fraud" is based on ignorance of the process.  Saw the news that the "Dominion server crashed again!?!?!? maor fraud!"  Nah, servers crash all the time.  Hell all of Google was down a couple days ago.  Being an educated citizen isn't just knowing the facts on here, it's getting involved in what impacts you locally.

[17D_guy]

41 minutes ago, brabus said:

You know what actually surprises me, that there are dudes on here who apparently don’t see shit like this as a big deal. To the extent they either ignore it, or are incredulous to the fact it happens. To that point, you and others actually are trying to argue a well educated adult who has voted in many elections doesn’t know the difference between a ballot app vs. sample ballot vs. actual ballot. It’s laughable and sad at the same time, but enjoy keeping that cranium buried deep in the sand. 

Because it's not. You did what any good citizen would do, and most would do.  Do you use the credit card applications you get in the mail with other people's names?  Do you have any evidence to send to team-Trump that this is the downfall of our election?

Ya'll want a perfect, and 100% secure process...we're humans, and democracy is dirty.  There will always be issues.

[Sua Sponte]

18 hours ago, brabus said:

You know what actually surprises me, that there are dudes on here who apparently don’t see shit like this as a big deal. To the extent they either ignore it, or are incredulous to the fact it happens. To that point, you and others actually are trying to argue a well educated adult who has voted in many elections doesn’t know the difference between a ballot app vs. sample ballot vs. actual ballot. It’s laughable and sad at the same time, but enjoy keeping that cranium buried deep in the sand. 

Aircraft fly all the time, every second of the day. Unfortunately, sometimes they crash. Does it happen often? Statistically no, but it does happen. When one crashes are all aircraft grounded forever and redesigned? No. Historically the benefits outweigh the risk of flying. But statistically if aircraft continue to fly, they will also crash. If people still use voting to elect officials, you will have voting fraud.

What surprises me is that supposedly educated individuals on this forum are shocked that a system created by humans is not infallible. As someone said previously it’s almost like it’s willful ignorance. Does the election system have voting fraud? Yes, it happens every election. Is it rampant enough to swing an election? Historically and statistically the data tells us no. It’s only being highlighted by a false narrative because of a sore loser of a president. If it was as rampant as the president, and his supporters said it was, then some of those legal challenges probably would’ve not been tossed and rendered moot.

If the tables were turned and the Dems were bringing up the same voting fraud narrative, Trump supporters would be laughing all the way to Inauguration Day commenting how strong and fair the voting system is. If you don’t believe that, again willful ignorance. 

Good luck in 2024.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Sua Sponte

[Negatory]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:55 PM, brabus said:

You know what actually surprises me, that there are dudes on here who apparently don’t see shit like this as a big deal. To the extent they either ignore it, or are incredulous to the fact it happens. To that point, you and others actually are trying to argue a well educated adult who has voted in many elections doesn’t know the difference between a ballot app vs. sample ballot vs. actual ballot. It’s laughable and sad at the same time, but enjoy keeping that cranium buried deep in the sand. 

Yeah I mean, honestly, I don’t believe you. If you have pics or proof I’d like to see it.

[slackline]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-homeland-whistleblower-idUSKBN28R33L

Link just gives what could be some more info on all the protests last summer for those that were saying the violence was coming mostly from the left. This shouldn’t surprise anyone, but I’m sure diehard Trump supporters will deny it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[17D_guy]

37 minutes ago, slackline said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-homeland-whistleblower-idUSKBN28R33L

Link just gives what could be some more info on all the protests last summer for those that were saying the violence was coming mostly from the left. This shouldn’t surprise anyone, but I’m sure diehard Trump supporters will deny it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So, one thing that has stayed the same through all admin's that I've been an adult for - white supremacist/militia groups are the biggest threat of organized violence in our country.  Which I think is interesting, since in the 1800's, to early 1900's it was anarchist groups/communists that were the larger threats.

[gearhog]

https://foia.state.gov/Search/Results.aspx?searchText=(F-2015-16287) AND (C05971792)

[jice]

4 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

So, one thing that has stayed the same through all admin's that I've been an adult for - white supremacist/militia groups are the biggest threat of organized violence in our country.  Which I think is interesting, since in the 1800's, to early 1900's it was anarchist groups/communists that were the larger threats.

I mean, there was that whole deal from 1861-1865.

Edited December 18, 2020 by jice