The Next President is...

[slackline]

So, the lady that was shot in the Capitol today just died. Does the instigator in chief hold any responsibility? I’d say he does. He fired the crowd up, he said, “we’ll walk to the Capitol, I’ll be coming”, he said it, “will be wild,” and other crap. He got those Trumpkins so fired up they did stupid things. Inexcusable for a president to do that, to say what he said.

https://www.businessinsider.com/woman-shot-in-capitol-amid-pro-trump-protest-2021-1


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[Sua Sponte]

44 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

Because if the son of George Bush got millions in shady business deals obviously peddling access and influence via family connections to powerful gov officials while simultaneously getting paid by a company in a foreign country in a business he knew nothing about the media, deep state and Democratic Party would have been cool with that too?


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I mean, I don’t know why the Democratic Party would care about Kushner, but go off.

[Negatory]

Many of your guys' primary response to this f&#ed up day is to glaze your eyeballs over and just say "well, dems did bad things too, soooooooo." What was that Ghandi quote? An eye for an eye or something? Who cares, he was probably a lib.

 

[dream big]

3 hours ago, Negatory said:

Now they are reportedly shooting into the chambers. I seem to recall half of this forum claiming that only antifa/BLM protests were violent. Delusional.

No one on this forum claimed that the right doesn’t / can’t riot.  Most of us hate these idiots on the far right as they delegitimize our values. I would bet every Trump supporter in this forum, myself included, condemns this violence and hopes for a peaceful transition.  Likewise we don’t claim that the actions of antifa are representative of the mainstream democrats.  Groups should not be characterized by their worst people.  

[DosXX]

1 minute ago, dream big said:

Likewise we don’t claim that the actions of antifa are representative of the mainstream democrats.  Groups should not be characterized by their worst people.  

I'm glad you at least agree. But on numerous occasions there have been at least 2 members on this forum who literally believe Democrats and left leaning individuals on this forum were "communist". 

[Negatory]

13 minutes ago, dream big said:

No one on this forum claimed that the right doesn’t / can’t riot.

I literally remember this conversation. When you personally liked the post below back in July, it was probably a misclick, right?

On 7/6/2020 at 8:00 PM, bfargin said:

If so, it will be leftist for both occasions. I can't imagine any conservative rioting. Now as Brick said, if they come for us we'll stand firm and kick their teeth in, but we won't riot because it's not in our DNA.

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Negatory

[slackline]

33 minutes ago, dream big said:

No one on this forum claimed that the right doesn’t / can’t riot.  Most of us hate these idiots on the far right as they delegitimize our values. I would bet every Trump supporter in this forum, myself included, condemns this violence and hopes for a peaceful transition.  Likewise we don’t claim that the actions of antifa are representative of the mainstream democrats.  Groups should not be characterized by their worst people.  

I’d love to hear from Sim, Seadogs on your claim.  

Edited to add this gem on the differences of how police handled the peaceful protests/riots for social justice vs a violent breach of the nation’s Capitol.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ikrd/comparing-scenes-from-the-attempted-coup-to-blm-protests 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by slackline

[Homestar]

This honestly seems like a watershed moment to me. It doesn’t look good for January 20th. 

[17D_guy]

Never was a leader, cared about this wonderful country or its people.

[Pooter]

32 minutes ago, dream big said:

No one on this forum claimed that the right doesn’t / can’t riot.  Most of us hate these idiots on the far right as they delegitimize our values. I would bet every Trump supporter in this forum, myself included, condemns this violence and hopes for a peaceful transition.  Likewise we don’t claim that the actions of antifa are representative of the mainstream democrats.  Groups should not be characterized by their worst people.  

And yet you still can't admit his words and actions directly led to the violent riots today. You're right. Groups shouldn't be characterized by their worst people. They should be characterized by their leader. This situation is just unique because those happen to be the same person. 

[M2]

3 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

I think it's already on eBay! 

[Prozac]

R’s should’ve taken the opportunity to impeach Trump and take their party back when they had the chance. Fuck anyone who continued to go along with his seditious post-election charade. Not saying the Dems are without their own problems, but the R’s will be paying for this little four year tryst for a long time. I rarely make predictions but here’s one: Lindsay Graham lasts one more term before inevitable demographic changes in his state take him out of the senate. Had he had the balls to stand by his 2016 pre-election assessment of Trump he might have a chance. But he chose to fall in lockstep with the new Trump style “conservatism”. He, and many other Republicans will eventually pay for this mistake. Too bad too. The country needs a strong Conservative party to act as a check on the Dems. Trump has been a disaster for this country, conservatives included. 

[ViperMan]

1 hour ago, Negatory said:

Many of your guys' primary response to this f&#ed up day is to glaze your eyeballs over and just say "well, dems did bad things too, soooooooo." What was that Ghandi quote? An eye for an eye or something? Who cares, he was probably a lib.

Notice: this is how our GOVERNMENT functions right now. It's been like this for years. Some of us (me) see this as part and parcel of the same underlying issue - not about whether or not someone is wearing red, blue, or orange glasses. The issue, IMO, is who gets to define what reality is (i.e. we're flirting with themes from 1984). Notice how everything is about perspective and framing - what something is, and what it is not. We are arguing about what is real.

Don't forget, rioting (/peaceful protesting, depending on what frame you like to use) has been going on all summer long. Does it surprise you that there is finally a riot from the right? While it is shameful (perhaps a contender for the "most" shameful award) that it was apparently encouraged by Trump today, it is not qualitatively different than what has been going on all summer long from top to bottom, including mayors, governors, senators, congresspeople, business leaders, news organizations, social media, etc (please note, I am not justifying ANY bad behavior, from either side).

You name the thing, it has an agenda, a frame, a technological bubble to place you in, or an angle to push. And if you're me, what you've seen over the last four years is a ridiculous and hysterical obsession with how F'd up Trump is. You would think we're on the cusp of total collapse because of him. Frankly, it's been very petty, and in my view, it has been done intentionally and with design, because everyone knows that Trump is a little bit cranky and unpredictable...pester dad enough and he might lash out, which might work to your advantage...yes, I am that cynical about American politics and our media complex, which, let's not forget, are private companies (CNN = Time Warner, NBC = Comcast, ABC = The Walt Disney Company, CBS is a fusion of National Amusements, Paramount Pictures, and Viacom, Fox News = Fox, and so on...) whose ultimate motivation is profit, not rightfully informing you. Makes sense right? There's only so many different ways to dress up the truth.

Reflecting on 2020, I'd say the largest event was COVID-19. IMO, that is what actually led to the riots. You had people out of work, out of money, cooped up inside, told they can't travel, told to wear masks, being given conflicting information, no end in sight, watching "Tiger King" for the 69th time, etc, etc. Seems like a good root cause to me. But no, what caused the riots all summer long? Race, according to the "experts;" according to doctrine. But is that view justified, at all??? Has it been effectively defended or challenged? Was 2020 an outlier in regards to police "brutality"? Not likely. Yet here's the debrief: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/06/2020-not-1968/, https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/06/police-brutality-coronavirus-trump-protests-ongoing-summer-2020/, the theme being, "it was caused by systemic mistreatment of blacks"...really? That's our root cause from this mission? Nah.

Point being, we (America) have a split-view of reality. If you think only one side has scales on their eyes, I'm here to tell you the next four years are probably going to feel like the last four, and you'll still be wondering WTF if you think Trump is the root cause. Trump isn't the cancer, he's a symptom. This problem ain't going anywhere until we start discussing our problems from positions of good faith.

Edited January 7, 2021 by ViperMan

[Prozac]

1 minute ago, ViperMan said:

While it is shameful (perhaps a contender for the "most" shameful award) that it was apparently encouraged by Trump today, it is not qualitatively different than what has been going on all summer long from top to bottom, including mayors, governors, senators, congresspeople, business leaders, news organizations, social media, etc (please note, I am not justifying ANY bad behavior, from either side).

 

Are you kidding? It ABSOLUTELY is quantitatively different when the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES incites seditious activity against the VERY GOVERNMENT that he is supposed to lead! This is the United States of America. We don’t fucking do that here! The leader of the free world is attacking his own country because he can’t adult. It’s shameful. It’s dangerous, and it’s tragic. 

[FDNYOldGuy]

Well, well, well how the turntables...

"Disgraceful scenes": World leaders condemn chaos at U.S. Capitol

[Negatory]

4 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Are you kidding? It ABSOLUTELY is quantitatively different when the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES incites seditious activity against the VERY GOVERNMENT that he is supposed to lead! This is the United States of America. We don’t fucking do that here! The leader of the free world is attacking his own country because he can’t adult. It’s shameful. It’s dangerous, and it’s tragic. 

What's tragic is that military officers on this forum can't see that.

[ViperMan]

15 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Are you kidding? It ABSOLUTELY is quantitatively different when the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES incites seditious activity against the VERY GOVERNMENT that he is supposed to lead! This is the United States of America. We don’t fucking do that here! The leader of the free world is attacking his own country because he can’t adult. It’s shameful. It’s dangerous, and it’s tragic. 

Like I said, it's but merely one instance of a great many failures we've seen over the last year. And apparently, we do do that here.

Your statement is indicative of another inherent problem many of us have: we think we're somehow above all this - we're not. It's the same attitude of "it can't happen to me."

See: Mayors and legislatures turning on their police departments.

Edit to add: I said "QUALitatively" - not sure that matters to your point.

Edited January 7, 2021 by ViperMan

[Prozac]

3 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

Like I said, it's but merely one instance of a great many failures we've seen over the last year. And apparently, we do do that here.

Your statement is indicative of another inherent problem many of us have: we think we're somehow above all this - we're not. It's the same attitude of "it can't happen to me."

See: Mayors and legislatures turning on their police departments.

We absolutely have been and should continue to be “above all this”. That is exactly what American Exceptionalism has always been about. The President (the fucking President....it boggles the mind) has done severe, maybe irreparable damage to that concept. Mayors and legislatures don’t symbolize freedom and democracy around the world. The office of the POTUS does. Or at least it did before today. If “we do have that here” now, it’s squarely because Donald Trump and his supporters decided to. 

[17D_guy]

4 minutes ago, Prozac said:

We absolutely have been and should continue to be “above all this”. That is exactly what American Exceptionalism has always been about. The President (the fucking President....it boggles the mind) has done severe, maybe irreparable damage to that concept. Mayors and legislatures don’t symbolize freedom and democracy around the world. The office of the POTUS does. Or at least it did before today. If “we do have that here” now, it’s squarely because Donald Trump and his supporters decided to. 

Don't you remember all those other times the capital building has been invaded when the losing President/party called for a it?!

Yeah, me neither.

[ViperMan]

2 minutes ago, Prozac said:

We absolutely have been and should continue to be “above all this”. That is exactly what American Exceptionalism has always been about. The President (the fucking President....it boggles the mind) has done severe, maybe irreparable damage to that concept. Mayors and legislatures don’t symbolize freedom and democracy around the world. The office of the POTUS does. Or at least it did before today. If “we do have that here” now, it’s squarely because Donald Trump and his supporters decided to. 

I agree we 'should' - but it's not a birthright to quote Fingers.

And I don't think the damage is irreparable. They fixed Hiroshima for God's sake.

I would say the idea of America symbolizes freedom around the world. We got rid of the idea about one person being the end-all be-all in 1776.

[Kiloalpha]

2 minutes ago, Prozac said:

We absolutely have been and should continue to be “above all this”. That is exactly what American Exceptionalism has always been about. The President (the fucking President....it boggles the mind) has done severe, maybe irreparable damage to that concept. Mayors and legislatures don’t symbolize freedom and democracy around the world. The office of the POTUS does. Or at least it did before today. If “we do have that here” now, it’s squarely because Donald Trump and his supporters decided to. 

If you think America’s standing was great until 2016, I suggest getting a new prescription.

That said, his rhetoric is a problem. Has been for a while. But the institutions of this country are a lot stronger than he, or whatever this little band of jackasses who raided the Capital can do. So take a breath. The nation’s business will continue. It always does.

[Negatory]

I assume if martial law is attempted to be declared in 2 weeks, 100% of you will totally set aside all partisanship and defend the constitution.

Reaction to the events of today -  no, nothing to see here. It's just business as usual. It's always been like this.

But when it actually matters, we'll care, promise.

[Prozac]

Look guys, we’re not perfect. In fact, we’ve been pretty consistently far from it. Welcome to the human world. But despite our shortcomings, this country has, since its inception been the prime example of a nation made by the people, for the people. I’m tempted to lay into some of you for suggesting that we are no different or better than some third rate, corruption ridden banana republic. But I won’t. I won’t because I don’t think any of you really believe that. People don’t put on a uniform and serve with the distinction that differentiates the American serviceman from every other fighting man in the world unless they believe that their country is, in fact, exceptional. No American should accept the shitshow we’re witnessing today as just some expression of the new normal. It’s not normal as long as we refuse to accept it as such. 

[Kiloalpha]

5 minutes ago, Negatory said:

I assume if martial law is attempted to be declared in 2 weeks, 100% of you will totally set aside all partisanship and defend the constitution.

Reaction to the events of today -  no, nothing to see here. It's just business as usual. It's always been like this.

But when it actually matters, we'll care, promise.

My allegiance isn’t to a single man. That’s not what the Constitution is.

So, yeah. If he declares martial law and tries to remain past his time unlawfully, I don’t give a shit what party he’s affiliated with. He’s gotta go.

Today’s actions were bad. However, they are not nation-ending, banana republic, coup to retain power bad. How we move forward from here makes all the difference.

Also, worth noting that this places Democrats in the absolute best position of their lives to govern in a reasonable manner and lock down power for a decade.

However, I highly doubt they’ll be able to thread that needle. I don’t think anyone in DC can set aside their own power long enough to figure that out.

[slackline]

1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

Never was a leader, cared about this wonderful country or its people.

I assume he was saying this because he was defending all the people protesting/rioting over social justice issues when he says “great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long.”  Right?  That’s what he’s referring to, right?