The Next President is...

[Darth]

I love the conspiracy nuts who are saying it was not Trump supporters, but Soros funded ANTIFA and BLM activists who were bussed in and had actually planned to storm the Capitol Building months ago.  I have friends on facebook currently arguing this as FACT!  To include the above pictured Q nut job is actually part of ANTIFA.

[DosXX]

Yeah also hearing this gamer tattoo as evidence they are communist by claiming it is a hammer and sickle. Quite sad the rabbit hole they continue to dig themselves in.

[HU&W]

12 hours ago, M2 said:

Looks like the far left propagandists of the media WANT this to be their Reichstag moment.   They’re just as dangerous as the rioters from both fringes of the political spectrum who protest through violence.  I sincerely hope there are enough moderates left, who don’t buy into the identity politics lie, to save us from continuing down the script of history.  We are on a dark path. 

 

Edit to add: the propaganda I’m seeing out of the ‘conservative’ media is also idiotic and is furthering the identity politic divide. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by HU&W

[kaputt]

1 hour ago, Kiloalpha said:

I’ve removed so many people from my social media it’s not even funny. Both sides, actually.

People who were posting “riots are the voice of the unheard” and all kinds of nonsense after George Floyd... but now act like this is just an unbelievable act? Gone.

You think this is a false flag operation with Antifa to empower the lizard people and pedofiles? Also gone.

Ive seen all of this garbage as well. The sad thing is, a lot of the people I’m seeing this crap from are generally people that at face value I would not consider to be extremists or non-rational individuals. Many of them I was good friends or co-workers with back in the day. It’s becoming very clear that the crazy is leaking down into much more normal levels of society these days, on both sides. 

[kaputt]

44 minutes ago, HU&W said:

 

 

Ridiculous what passes for journalism these days. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by kaputt

[ViperMan]

59 minutes ago, HU&W said:

Looks like the far left propagandists of the media WANT this to be their Reichstag moment.   They’re just as dangerous as the rioters from both fringes of the political spectrum who protest through violence.  I sincerely hope there are enough moderates left, who don’t buy into the identity politics lie, to save us from continuing down the script of history.  We are on a dark path.

...(pic)...

Edit to add: the propaganda I’m seeing out of the ‘conservative’ media is also idiotic and is furthering the identity politic divide. 

Yep. There are dems licking their chops over this because it's a perfect excuse to govern from an extreme position (never let a crisis go to waste). Look for a themes of "we have to repair the damage done," "we have to help those who were destroyed by Trump," and "the republican party is a danger to democracy" to be in play over the next two years (minimum).

I don't admire Biden's position. I think he is (by far) inheriting the most difficult set of circumstances of any president since Vietnam. He's got a chance, though, because I do think he is an inherently good person.

Edited January 8, 2021 by ViperMan

[Sua Sponte]

A play in three acts.

[Kiloalpha]

4 hours ago, HU&W said:

The propaganda I’m seeing out of the ‘conservative’ media is also idiotic and is furthering the identity politic divide. 

Who/where are you seeing this?

Asking for two reasons. 1) Haven’t seen any myself, and 2) I need to avoid whoever is parroting that nonsense.

[jazzdude]

Ridiculous what passes for journalism these days. 

Do you think the people that stormed the Capitol are going to disappear, or discard their views after the administration change?

They will still be a problem because violence against government is now on the table. It's not a R vs D problem, it's attacking our institutions outlined in our constitution. And does anyone think Trump will go away quietly, when continuing what he does now gets him so much attention? One can only hope.

If they had showed up and protested out on the lawn in front of Congress, I'd say it's concerning, but they are exercising their rights as citizens, but would agree with your premise.

Forcibly entering the Capitol? That's no longer a protest. Does anyone doubt that if Congress wasn't evacuated that political figures (primarily on the left) would've been physically attacked?

The Republican party needs to condemn these rioters, and purge them from the party. Probably not going to happen, which will probably cause many moderate Republicans to abandon the party (you know, the ones that will vote because they don't believe the system is fixed or rigged against them)

The Democrats need to make good faith effort in working with the Republicans on policy and law, and not use control of the Senate and presidency to unilaterally ram through their agenda. But again, probably not going to happen given how polarizing politics has become and the inability of the two parties to work together.

[Swamp Yankee]

13 hours ago, M2 said:

I like that one. I couldn't resist adding another. 

[Swamp Yankee]

22 hours ago, kaputt said:

I think the vile hatred of Trump from the beginning, the baseless Russia accusations, the impeachment, the Kavanaugh hearings, the race baiting wokeness, the riots that were met with silence or tacit approval, the embracing of socialism, and any of the other ridiculous crap the left has spewed over the last 4 years are at least party to blame for the disgusting actions we saw yesterday by a cult devoted to one man. Those actions the last 4 years have built a huge pressure cooker. 
 

Every force has an equal and opposite reaction. So while the left perhaps doesn’t have their one event that was the catalyst, it can’t be a shock to anyone that their unrelenting mission to remove Trump from office finally had a tipping point yesterday with some redneck trash right wing extremists. 
 

That being said I will not excuse Trump for his behavior since the election. I’ve said this several times, but I voted for him twice but I have not remotely been happy with him since the election, I have not bought into the  vote fraud claims, and I strongly believe that the lion share of the blame for yesterday lands squarely on his shoulders. 
 

But I think we’re kidding ourselves if we don’t at least look at the environment of the last 4 years and at least realize that the left is also very guilty of turning up the heat on the kettle that is now boiling over. 

Yesterday's events were clearly the fault/responsibility of the right-wing faction that strongly supports Trump. Not the democrats in this specific situation.    Using the "unrelenting mission to get X out of office" as a justification is usually applied in a biased manner.  By that logic, you should have no quarrel with the formation of BLM in 2013 as a reaction to the 'unrelenting mission to get Obama out of office'.  After all, Mitch McConnell  and fellow republicans clearly indicated their objective was to make Obama fail.  I don't think it's a stretch to say that the right-wing mainstream media (yes, Fox and talk radio reach huge audiences and are indeed mainstream) also advocated for the downfall of Obama.  Not that I am a strong Obama fan, but none of that justifies violence.  

[Swamp Yankee]

9 hours ago, Kiloalpha said:

Who/where are you seeing this?

Asking for two reasons. 1) Haven’t seen any myself, and 2) I need to avoid whoever is parroting that nonsense.

Lou Dobbs. "Just as the country is dealing with trying to constrain lethal force, that would be a poor time to suggest Capitol Hill police should draw their weapons on American citizens, most of whom are patriots."   

I don't think storming a federal building is patriotic.  In my opinion, Dobbs subtext was '..unlike those uppity people who had the audacity to protest this summer.' 

[jrizzell]

With the Dems in charge, the repercussions of this idiotic event will be the thing to watch. I think this author (Glenn Greenwald) summed it up perfectly. 

"But as was true of the Cold War and the War on Terror and so many other crisis-spurred reactions, the other side of the ledger — the draconian state powers clearly being planned and urged and prepared in the name of stopping them — carries its own extremely formidable dangers.

Refusing to consider those dangers for fear of standing accused of downplaying the threat is the most common tactic authoritarian advocates of state power use. Less than twenty-four hours after the Capitol breach, one sees this tactic being wielded with great flamboyance and potency, and it is sure to continue long after January 20."

Violence in the Capitol, Dangers in the Aftermath

Edited January 8, 2021 by jrizzell

[Swamp Yankee]

22 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Awesome! I'm glad we're all in agreement that it wasn't an attempted coup. I had been hearing differently in the social media sphere, the news, and was starting hear the same bleed over into this forum. It's best when we keep the hyperbole to a minimum.

I don't think you're thinking big enough. That is worrisome, to be sure, but what is worse is the continued divergence between the growing 'sectarian' realities that are continuing to find harbor in our country. That MAGA group yesterday is but one instance. The groups engaging in violence all summer long, were another. What I'm saying is that we're misidentifying the root causes and driving factors behind these events, but there is a way towards reconciliation. Honestly, the best thing we can do with Trump going forward, is to ignore him and let him fade into memory.

Like others have identified on this forum, the Democratic party has a real opportunity to take an honest leadership role here. There has been real damage done to the Republican party (by the Republican party), but the Dem's only way forward is to make their bicycle look less broken (which they are not doing). What should they do, IMO? For starters, all discussion that frames yesterday as an attempted coup, has to stop. That goes for both Chuck Schumer (who is a piece of shit) and for Ben Sasse (who I admire greatly). All it does is polarize more people and allows them to reinforce their dug-in positions. In the same vein, likening yesterday to Pearl Harbor also has to end.

Second, the Democrats need to step back and communicate to the American people a message that addresses the following:

1. We (America) are obviously a divided nation.
2. We (Democrats) won by the narrowest of margins.
3. We (Democrats), unfortunately, have no "mandate" and we're not going to govern like we do.
4. Any and all things we do in the next term will be from a position of true bi-partisanship.
5. It's from this place that we'll reach out to Republicans to govern. Peace/truce.

If I heard a speech (or saw governing) that covered those points, 1) I'd breathe a sign of relief because it would finally be a truthful, adult response, and 2) it would be the first time in the last four years that I would see any amount of reality come from the democratic side of the isle.

But I'm not holding my breath for that. Reference all the coup talk, and the reference to a mandate from our friends at CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/georgia-election-wins-biden/index.html. We've got a mandate and we've got mounting expectations...awesome. I love being part of the 49.9% minority subject to the 50.1% majority. But yeah, mandate...keep your seat belts fastened.

I generally agree with the above.  The 5 points above would equally apply to Trump at the start of his term.  In 2016, Trump won by the same electoral margin as Biden (and lost the popular vote, although officially that's not applicable)  Thus, Trump should have followed the same principles.  He didn't. Far from it. 

[Swamp Yankee]

I'm glad Trump is leaving.  I'm not sure a short notice impeachment or 25th Amendment action is of benefit.  The democrats are probably better off doing the traditional transition work since it's running way behind due to Trump. 

That said, Biden is no savior.  We'll basically be back to the same ol', same ol' politicking.  I guess it will be a reset after the leadership chaos of the past four years. 

I'm thinking many of us want a fresh outsider to shake things up. That backfired with Trump.  What I realize is that an outsider with the chutzpah to run is likely going to be a megalomaniac like Trump who will cause more damage than good.  I'm old enough to have voted for Ross Perot.  We missed a great opportunity there.  I don't think we realized how rare someone like that can be. 

 

[slackline]

30 minutes ago, Kiloalpha said:

I think you’re missing a long timeline of escalation to get to this point. 

Starting in 2010 while I was working in the state capital, we had leftists bussed in from all over the country every week to fight against the (then) new Republican majority. Cars were vandalized, staff members were harassed, and on more than one occasion they broke in and made the legislature stop their business. The media coverage of it all? They loved it. They would find a teacher or an old civil rights activist and just say that they were “showing their discontent.” I tried like hell to get a media outlet to allow a live press conference, but they wouldn’t allow it. Funny though, the state Democratic chair got an hour with the state’s largest station to explain why “protesting mattered,” while only airing two lines of a Republican statement.

Side note: One legislator was followed to his house by these assholes, and after stalking the place out, they stopped and told the guy’s daughter on her way to the gym that they would find her, kidnap her and rape her unless her Dad resigned. I know this because I was friends with both the dad and the daughter. 

This type of shit happened all over the country. Not a fucking peep.

Fast forward to 2013. BLM was created in the wake of Michael “hands up don’t shoot” Brown. It had absolutely nothing to do with Mitch McConnell. They torched Ferguson, but the media said, “can you blame them? The cop definitely shot him in cold blood.” So people didn’t do anything as businesses burned.

We saw violence after Freddie Gray. Baltimore did nothing, let the city “burn itself out” the mayor said. The media didn’t object to that course of action.

We saw violence again after George Floyd. Minneapolis did nothing, they actually caved to the mob. Decided to cut police funding.

We had a Bernie bro shoot up Republicans Congressional members at baseball practice. That story barely made the weekend. Pelosi wasn’t put on the spot immediately and there wasn’t a huge uprising because of an “assault on our constitution.” More importantly, Republicans didn’t blame Bernie, despite what that guy believed.

From there it just kind of went nuts. Riots “were the language of the unheard” I was reminded. “Can you blame them? How is this any different than the Boston Tea Party?” I was told.

Media coverage all along the way?Nothing to see here. Just “Fiery but Mostly Peaceful” protests. 

Just to throw you guys on the left a bone, the right got violent in Charlottesville as well, and that was bad. But the media made damn sure every Republican from Congress to town dog catcher apologized immediately. When Trump didn’t give them a satisfactory statement, they hounded him for months. Funny, they didn’t have that same vigor toward Biden after his campaign members were paying bail for rioters.

So, where was that same diligence by the media for all the times the left got violent? That’s what’s pissing off the right. This double-standard that never seems to end, where the media never seems to care when one side does something, but they sure care when the other does.

But here we are today, where some idiots on the right become violent. THATS when people say “oh my gosh what’s going on? This is unheard of?” GMAFB.

I don’t like any of this political violence... because it begets more violence. But let’s not be delusional and act like this is the first act of political terrorism that’s been committed. We’ve been on this track for a while.

Your memory is so biased and one sided it’s kind of hilarious.  But, as has been said on here time and again, that’s politics.  The fact that you (royal You, not individual you) are already done with your “disgust” from Wednesday’s events and have so readily moved on to comparisons about what happened this summer is predictable, and it’s already happening everywhere on the right.

Everything that happened this summer was due to decades of unfair treatment, but so many on the right (often because life is pretty dang comfortable for them) never believed that POC weren’t being offered the same kind of leeway in the realm of crime and punishment that others were anyway.  Anything that amounted to a riot/looting was wholly wrong!  Period, dot!  But yeah, I’ll say it, I understand where they’re coming from, where their frustration comes from, and why they may feel they are at a boiling point.  Nothing appears like it will ever change, and those on the right, even moderates, are deaf to their cries.  Doesn’t justify/excuse riots/looting, but it does make it somewhat understandable.

Now, Wednesday.  Come on, I dare you to say that those people felt the same way, and have been dealing with decades of the same treatment.  Do it with a straight face.  They’ve been fed a steady stream of lies from Trump and his enablers (we’ve heard it a TON from members of this forum) about election fraud and stealing the election since the 2020 election started to become a headline.  Trump even tried to blame election fraud on his loss of the popular vote in 2016.  So I’ll even say you could get away with saying they’ve been hearing this garbage for 4 years.  Not decades of horrible, unfair mistreatment at the hands of policing institutions.  We’re not going to start that debate here, none of you believe it even with the mountains of facts and data that have been provided.  

My point is comparing this week with the summer’s events outside of saying any type of riot/looting/violence is unacceptable is gross and a farce.  Stop looking for ways (in general to the Right, not you KA) rationalize/compare what happened this week to what happened over the summer.  They’re not the same.  

We have not been on this track for a while.  Trump and his enablers actively fomented these loonies on the right.  Trump wanted this to happen.  He wanted to burn it all down.  He’s never cared about anything other than Trump.  The fact that some of you couldn’t see that earlier is laughable.  

Edited January 8, 2021 by slackline

[Homestar]

4 minutes ago, Kiloalpha said:

Also, why is the media not to blame for you, at all?

"The media." What is "the media"?

Whenever anyone resorts to blaming "the media" I have to just kind of tune out to whatever else they are saying because that's like blaming "white people" for slavery.  "The media" means nothing.  You have a problem with the editorial content of CNN, MSNBC, the NYT, or whatever that's fine.  But you're going to have to be more specific than "the media" because OANN and Fox News are part of "the media" too.

Slow burn over a decade, then a gallon of gas and a match over the past two months.  You tell me what caused the house to burn down.

[slackline]

5 minutes ago, Kiloalpha said:

I think you’re interpreting my post as saying the media is 100% to blame. Trust me, I definitely don’t. Trump’s a significant contributor to this problem, but I don’t think he’s the majority, and I definitely don’t think he’s the cause.

I was posting to point out the frustration from those on the right looking at how the media and the left are treating this situation. It probably came out more heated than I intended, so that’s on me. I try hard to engage on here in good faith. I’ve posted before on here about how I’m not his biggest fan.

I’m hardly over what happened the other day. It’s a very dark day for the country and it’s just another step up in political violence. I want to know who did it, why they did, and I want their asses in jail. Period. Full stop.

All of those things you said about Trump’s rhetoric are completely fair points. I might split with you on some, but that has me wondering. Why do you think he was elected in the first place? I can answer for myself, but I’d like to hear your take.

Also, why is the media not to blame for you, at all?

Media absolutely holds blame in this, 100% agreed.  I did not catch that that was the intent of your post at all, my bad. I might disagree on the reasons though.  They gave him way too much airtime because they only care about ratings and he brings in the watchers.  Many other reasons, but yes media holds blame.  For Wednesday, nowhere near as much as Trump and his team of enablers. They caused Wednesday.  People spouting the lies non-stop about the election being stolen.

I think he got elected because people are sick of politicians. That's a good reason for him to have made the debate stage, not to have been elected. It was painfully obvious early on he was a sideshow, uninformed in US politics let alone world politics, and everyone on the right knew it. They didn't take him seriously because they're all vain and narcissistic, so they took down real, a few decent options, for president, leaving him to be the nominee...  He rode a wave of voter disgust into the oval office, then failed to ever elevate the discussion to something worthy of the office.  His biggest enemies became his most ardent supporters.  Their blatant, disgusting hypocrisy on full display for the world to see.  That stuff will, and should haunt people like Cruz and Graham the rest of their political lives.  Clearly out for themselves and whatever will get them the votes, not what is good for the country.

[Swamp Yankee]

6 minutes ago, slackline said:

Media absolutely holds blame in this, 100% agreed.  I did not catch that that was the intent of your post at all, my bad. I might disagree on the reasons though.  They gave him way too much airtime because they only care about ratings and he brings in the watchers.  Many other reasons, but yes media holds blame.  For Wednesday, nowhere near as much as Trump and his team of enablers. They caused Wednesday.  People spouting the lies non-stop about the election being stolen.

I think he got elected because people are sick of politicians. That's a good reason for him to have made the debate stage, not to have been elected. It was painfully obvious early on he was a sideshow, uninformed in US politics let alone world politics, and everyone on the right knew it. They didn't take him seriously because they're all vain and narcissistic, so they took down real, a few decent options, for president, leaving him to be the nominee...  He rode a wave of voter disgust into the oval office, then failed to ever elevate the discussion to something worthy of the office.  His biggest enemies became his most ardent supporters.  Their blatant, disgusting hypocrisy on full display for the world to see.  That stuff will, and should haunt people like Cruz and Graham the rest of their political lives.  Clearly out for themselves and whatever will get them the votes, not what is good for the country.

Just a comment: The Main Stream Media trope that implies left-wing bias has been obsolete for several years.   Fox has the leading news commentary shows in the country along with huge general viewership. Talk radio, which by any measure leans strongly right, has millions upon millions of listeners.  OAN, Blaze, Newsmax, etc etc are growing.  Even the Epoch Times is establishing a position. 

My point being that "Main Stream Media" is not a left-wing cabal.  The right loves to play the victim here.  There is fairly balanced representation on the whole.  Thus, advocacy of Trump's policies, amplification of 'voter fraud' claims, dismissal of BLM concerns are widely broadcast, not suppressed.  

On a related note, one bright spot for me is the podcast world (Rogan, Jordan Peterson, Weinstein, etc).  Some do lean slightly right but generally try to make fair assessments. I think that approach with long-form deep discussion is the way forward. 

[Blue]

15 hours ago, Darth said:

I love the conspiracy nuts who are saying it was not Trump supporters, but Soros funded ANTIFA and BLM activists who were bussed in and had actually planned to storm the Capitol Building months ago.  I have friends on facebook currently arguing this as FACT!  To include the above pictured Q nut job is actually part of ANTIFA.

The internet is full of nutjobs spouting all means of bullshit.  However, just because it sounds outlandish, doesn't mean there isn't a seed of truth there.  To wit:

1 hour ago, Kiloalpha said:

Starting in 2010 while I was working in the state capital, we had leftists bussed in from all over the country every week to fight against the (then) new Republican majority. Cars were vandalized, staff members were harassed, and on more than one occasion they broke in and made the legislature stop their business.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

34 minutes ago, Homestar said:

"The media." What is "the media"?

Whenever anyone resorts to blaming "the media" I have to just kind of tune out to whatever else they are saying because that's like blaming "white people" for slavery.  "The media" means nothing.  You have a problem with the editorial content of CNN, MSNBC, the NYT, or whatever that's fine.  But you're going to have to be more specific than "the media" because OANN and Fox News are part of "the media" too.

Slow burn over a decade, then a gallon of gas and a match over the past two months.  You tell me what caused the house to burn down.

Homestar - I'm just now reading the above and realized I basically repeated your points.  Guess I should keep up with the comments. 

[Kiloalpha]

38 minutes ago, Homestar said:

"The media." What is "the media"?

Whenever anyone resorts to blaming "the media" I have to just kind of tune out to whatever else they are saying because that's like blaming "white people" for slavery.  "The media" means nothing.  You have a problem with the editorial content of CNN, MSNBC, the NYT, or whatever that's fine.  But you're going to have to be more specific than "the media" because OANN and Fox News are part of "the media" too.

Slow burn over a decade, then a gallon of gas and a match over the past two months.  You tell me what caused the house to burn down.

I can’t tell if you’re trying to provoke an answer or if this is a “Gotcha” attempt.

Regardless, I’ll bite. The print/video media has a liberal bent. I feel like that’s obvious. To @Swamp Yankee’s point, yes Fox has a big viewer base. But they’re small fish in terms of sheer numbers. If you add up all of the major print and video media publications and then add together the WSJ and Fox, it’s not even a contest. 

[jazzdude]

As easy as it to blame the media, I'm not sure they should take the full brunt of the hate.

(News) Media in the US is largely made up of businesses; we don't have a massive, state run media machine, though you can argue public affairs offices in various government agencies publishing things online or social media is a media outlet. But I'd argue the latter doesn't generally spread information to the general public directly, but it's usually picked up by another news outlet and repeated on that platform.

So since the news companies aren't fully supported by public funds, they need to make money. And the primarily model to make money on news is selling advertisements. The more viewers they can get, the more they can charge for ads, and the more money they make. However, this creates an incentive for them to pursue certain segments of the population. Fox doubled down on the right, while MSNBC doubled down on the left. So it's hard to blame them for doing what businesses do, it's their fiduciary duty to make money for their shareholders/owners.

All the media did was can the flames on existing discontent out in the public faster, in return for making money. Sure, they probably had guidance from their senior executives on the direction based on the politics of those senior executives, who likely also have strong political connections.

But our form of government requires an informed population, requiring some sort of mass news delivery. But we don't trust government sources of news, which leaves us to news companies who are pursuing their own interests, which may not align with the public's interests.

At the same time, we've eroded the trust in our government, and transparency is a double edge sword. It allows the public to see what is going on. But it also makes it harder for politicians to compromise, since if they do, they'll be scorned as not a true believer in the political cause of the day and potentially be replaced by someone else in the next election. So it creates a perverse incentive to never compromise and double down on your position to retain power. Then you gerrymander districts to get the votes you need to increase your party's power. This leads to legislative gridlock, and the only way to make progress is to take a majority so you don't have to compromise.

We did this to ourselves. But it's easier to place the blame on someone else- the media, the "other" political party, extremists within the party, foreigners, etc.

We're seeing now just how fragile our system is, and how much it relies on our leaders to be honorable and act in the public's interests, and to in general "not be a a-hole" when governing. So now we're going to have more laws/rules defining what it means to be an a-hole, and then someone's going to find a loophole. And we're all going to suffer because of it.

[Darth]

[Prozac]

22 minutes ago, Kiloalpha said:

I think you’re right about some of why Trump got elected, but a key piece is that he let the media have it. Republicans sat by in 2012 and watched as the media railroaded Mitt Romney, a man that by any account is one of the nicest, most moral human beings to run for office. Just think of the lies like “Binders full of women” and all those little stories that filled the NYT, WPost, CNN and MSNBC. Hell, Harry Reid claimed Romney didn’t pay his taxes, and the media ran with that. It didn’t matter that Reid later said he didn’t have info, just responding after the election with, “Well he didn’t win, did he?” 

But the one thing I heard over and over again in 2016 was that they couldn’t believe it when Candy Crowley during the debate between Obama and Romney, openly interjected and called Romney a liar for calling out the Obama administration’s Benghazi debacle. Romney didn’t defend himself. He didn’t correct her or Obama. He just sat down dumbfounded. That pissed people off. Both at Romney, and at her.

The media didn’t make those people rush the Capital. But they’re a massive reason why Trump was elected.

This is a fair point. I think it’s a huge problem that most media outlets these days feel they must represent one side or the other. To Homestar’s point, the fact that Fox and conservative talk radio have stepped in to fill the perceived void of conservative editorial voices has only made things worse. Of course, we get the media we deserve and who can blame Time Warner or Rupert Murdock when ratings ($$$) are so good? On a more optimistic note, it seems like the 50 plus crowd, who were conditioned to trust news anchors, seem to be the most susceptible to wholly swallowing (sts) overtly biased information. The younger crowd seems to be a bit more savvy in how they consume information, which is good, because that’s about the only thing that will break the cycle of echo chamber media.