The Next President is...

[Swamp Yankee]

5 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Totally agree.

I wish Trump had been more mature during his tenure. I wish the media realized what/who they were dealing with and hadn't stooped to his level, but they did, and honestly, they do bear some of the responsibility for the current state of affairs.

In terms of the election being close, sorry, I was specifically referring to Georgia's Senate run-off, and the fact that it's now a 50/50 split. Trump wasn't really close in the presidential election. I give as much credence to voter fraud this time around as I did last time, which is to say, not much. I guess I should clarify: it happens, but not to a level that affects the outcome of elections (IMO, at least). Trump running with the trope that there was massive fraud that prevented his re-election is unironically pretty funny.

Got it.  Yeah, the Georgia Senate races were very close and a bit of a surprise.  Also, in general I don't think it's healthy for one party to have all of Congress and the executive.  Unfortunately, that's the only way to get legislation passed since the art of compromise is gone.  The result of each side demonizing the other. (Republican = Racist and Democrat = Communist). 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Swamp Yankee

[Prosuper]

4 hours ago, JQuintana said:

I suppose the Koch brothers don't count as big money donors.  Cool.

Well since one them died and the other one is a never Trumper, Billionaires hate grass root politicians from both parties. As soon as we get used we live in a oligarchy and stop giving a damn the scotch will taste better. Biden will screw over the progressives and dance to what ever Wall street wants.

[17D_guy]

Twitter's reasoning if you want it - https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html

 

And a great video from Parlor about some supporters, and why it's important to not have insane leaders who suggest crazy things - https://twitter.com/parlertakes/status/1347680738586447872?s=20

Edited January 9, 2021 by 17D_guy

[17D_guy]

Just now, Prosuper said:

Well since one them died and the other one is a never Trumper, Billionaires hate grass root politicians from both parties. As soon as we get used we live in a oligarchy and stop giving a damn the scotch will taste better. Biden will screw over the progressives and dance to what ever Wall street wants.

And...they didn't when Trump was in office?

[Prosuper]

3 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

And...they didn't when Trump was in office

Both parties are corrupt, our govt is bought and paid for and they don't give a shit about you.

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

Twitter's reasoning if you want it - https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html

 

And a great video from Parlor about some supporters, and why it's important to not have insane leaders who suggest crazy things - https://twitter.com/parlertakes/status/1347680738586447872?s=20

Twitter's reasoning isn't really robust. The unfortunate thing is Trump's persona is so toxic now, no one will be able to call them out on this. But honestly, there reasoning is practically non-existent. Unless we are going to start censoring every politician that says their "voters have a voice." 

I'm honestly frustrated with this. I've been searching the internet for his remarks before the riots to figure out what was so inciting and I cannot find it anywhere. It has already been removed from social media and most news networks wont reprint it. So I have to take their word for it that he directed a group of radicals to storm the capital building. 

[jazzdude]

Twitter's reasoning isn't really robust. 

Twitter can censor anyone using their platform for pretty much any reason they want (outside protected classes defined by law). They are a private business, not a government service, and as such, they have zero duty to uphold free speech. They also have the right to moderate content if they choose (though no duty to do so either), and to set the rules for people, including politicians, who want to use their service.

That being said, as a US company, they have tried to hold up American ideals for free speech to a "reasonable" degree, because it generally is good business to do so in the US, to provide them access to a wider market ($$$), and because moderating every tweet is not really practical. For the latter point, it's why their enforcement of their rules is retroactive and based on others flashing/reporting tweets. Calls for them to suspend President Trump's twitter account have been going on for years, and until this week, twitter tolerated Trump on their platform despite believing he was breaking their rules/standards, purely because he was the President.

[jazzdude]

Curious about the baseops opinion on this one:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-air-force-combat-veteran-breached-the-senate

Synopsis is a retired AF Lt Col participated in storming the Capitol building (flexi-cuff guy in the photos from 6 Jan).

What should happen to him now that he's been identified as participating?

Seems to be precedent to court martial him should the DoD decide to pursue it, but would that be the right answer?
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/02/25/military-retirees-can-still-be-court-martialed-supreme-court-affirms/

[nsplayr]

6 hours ago, FLEA said:

I've been searching the internet for his remarks before the riots to figure out what was so inciting and I cannot find it anywhere. It has already been removed from social media and most news networks wont reprint it. So I have to take their word for it that he directed a group of radicals to storm the capital building. 

LMGTFY: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-told-supporters-stormed-capitol-hill/story?id=75110558

Feel free to read the entire transcript but you can also Ctrl+F "Capitol" to speed things up. Some quotes:

Quote

Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we're going to walk down and I'll be there with you. We're going to walk down--

We're going to walk down. Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol--

And we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong.

Fun fact: he was very much *not* there with them. Safe & sound in the WH after "leading" his supporters into a lawless and dangerous insurrection.

Quote

So we are going to--we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give--the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try--give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help, we're try--going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

Very direct and explicit instructions for the assembled people to march down to the Capitol.

Now there's not like some movie-plot quote where he says, "...and when you get there I want you to break in, kill a cop and injure several more, halt the workings of the legislative branch of government and also maybe attempt to murder most of the direct line of succession!"

But ya know...some of these folks are not our best and brightest and that's exactly what they did. I mean technically the match is what lights the gasoline on fire, but you don't get a free pass if you're the person holding the match & opening your hand to let it fall. You don't get to blame gravity here.

Edited January 9, 2021 by nsplayr

[Sua Sponte]

8 minutes ago, jazzdude said:

Curious about the baseops opinion on this one:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-air-force-combat-veteran-breached-the-senate

Synopsis is a retired AF Lt Col participated in storming the Capitol building (flexi-cuff guy in the photos from 6 Jan).

What should happen to him now that he's been identified as participating?

Seems to be precedent to court martial him should the DoD decide to pursue it, but would that be the right answer?
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/02/25/military-retirees-can-still-be-court-martialed-supreme-court-affirms/

Until the government appeals this ruling, which they will, military retiree can’t be court martialed for crimes they committed after retiring.

https://www.caaflog.org/home/dc-district-court-holds-that-court-martial-jurisdiction-over-retirees-is-unconstitutional

[SpeedOfHeat]

On 1/7/2021 at 11:06 AM, Blue said:

Video of Ashli Babbitt getting shot yesterday.

She fought to defend our country and then died attacking it.

 What a mess.

[BashiChuni]

9 hours ago, Prosuper said:

Both parties are corrupt, our govt is bought and paid for and they don't give a shit about you.

this.

[jazzdude]

Both parties are corrupt, our govt is bought and paid for and they don't give a shit about you.

If this is the case, then where should we go as a nation?

[Prozac]

10 hours ago, Prosuper said:

Both parties are corrupt, our govt is bought and paid for and they don't give a shit about you.

This sounds defeatist to me. Sure we have problems. We always have. But we are not an oligarchy like Russia. We are not corrupt like Brazil. We still have a system of government that stands head and shoulders above most of the rest of the world. Don’t like where things are going in Washington? Disillusioned with D AND R candidates? You have more power than just your vote. You’d be surprised the amount of change that can be accomplished on a local, grassroots level. In fact, local government has been something of a shining light in recent years. You’re not alone in becoming disillusioned with the process in Washington. But in this country, the government still derives its legitimacy from the people. We absolutely should strive to continually improve the system, but it starts with us at a grassroots level. 

[Prozac]

3 hours ago, jazzdude said:

Curious about the baseops opinion on this one:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-air-force-combat-veteran-breached-the-senate

Synopsis is a retired AF Lt Col participated in storming the Capitol building (flexi-cuff guy in the photos from 6 Jan).

What should happen to him now that he's been identified as participating?

Seems to be precedent to court martial him should the DoD decide to pursue it, but would that be the right answer?
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/02/25/military-retirees-can-still-be-court-martialed-supreme-court-affirms/

I find this guy’s backpedaling laughable. He just found the flexcuffs on the floor and was looking for a cop to give them to? He assumed he was “welcome into the capitol building” as the mob was storming it? He is just now realizing that his actions will have consequences and is trying to hold onto his job and his retirement. I feel bad for his family. He is 53 with a wife and three kids. Wonder how they feel about dad’s “patriotic” actions? He knew there would be consequences for an action like this (or at least he should have). I hope it was worth it for him. 

[BashiChuni]

47 minutes ago, Prozac said:

We are not corrupt like Brazil.

lol

[slackline]

45 minutes ago, Prozac said:

This sounds defeatist to me. Sure we have problems. We always have. But we are not an oligarchy like Russia. We are not corrupt like Brazil. We still have a system of government that stands head and shoulders above most of the rest of the world. Don’t like where things are going in Washington? Disillusioned with D AND R candidates? You have more power than just your vote. You’d be surprised the amount of change that can be accomplished on a local, grassroots level. In fact, local government has been something of a shining light in recent years. You’re not alone in becoming disillusioned with the process in Washington. But in this country, the government still derives its legitimacy from the people. We absolutely should strive to continually improve the system, but it starts with us at a grassroots level. 

This!

Saying what @Prosuper said is what leads to QAnon and Parker having such a strangle hold on certain people.  Not saying that’s where he’s at, but if supposedly educated and intelligent people believe his sentiment, then of course they’ll believe storming the Capitol is worthwhile.  Don’t be so jaded as to lump us into the same category as other countries.  

Also, this sentiment doesn’t sit well with the sentiment that our country has zero race problems or equality with women vs men pay/opportunities.  If we’re totally equal in race and gender, then it is probably not happening under a corrupt government.  Those in the far right can’t claim both situations are true.  Not a 100% correlation, but that logic is pretty sound.

[jazzdude]

I think a lot of people who like to talk the talk about be a "patriot" or revolutionary are about to find out the hard way that there is a significant price to pay for walking the walk.

[Prozac]

57 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

lol

Go spend some time down there. Then come back and tell me we’re the same. No contest brother. 

[FDNYOldGuy]

1 hour ago, jazzdude said:

11 hours ago, Prosuper said:

Both parties are corrupt, our govt is bought and paid for and they don't give a shit about you.

If this is the case, then where should we go as a nation?

For policy: overturn Citizen’s United and remove corporate and special interest money from politics; enact laws to stop the revolving door between government agencies/positions that shift policy, lobbying groups, and corporations; revise the tax code to close loopholes that allow wealthy and corporations to stuff billions in offshore tax havens (and simplify the code for the average folks, while you’re at it). 

Saying what we could do personally is a minefield, but that’s the crux itself. We need to stop allowing ourselves to be polarized and thinking of opposing viewpoints as the enemy/dumb/not patriotic/whatever.

Realize that, while someone may not trust the mainstream media (bring back Fairness Doctrine), FB/Twitter/whatever.com lead to information feedback loops that stop presenting opposition viewpoints and turn into echo chambers that take all of us away from reality, while dehumanizing the opposing viewpoint. 

Lastly, we could all use to have some more in empathy. Just because we can’t understand or relate to how BLM or Trumpers/anti-vaxxers or COVID scared/trans people or religious people/flying spaghetti monster supporters or any other “different” viewpoint is, doesn’t mean it is meritless or not worth considering. What’s stupid to me is dear to someone else and vice versa, so understanding that we have these differences and trying to see where someone else is coming from could help humanize the other side and bridge the gaps.

Walking a mile in someone else’s shoes and Golden Rule would go a long way. 

[Prozac]

52 minutes ago, MyCS said:

Twitter/FB: US president personal Twitter account banned.

Govt: Can you ban the accounts of terrorist organizations, dictators, and those who are affiliated with them?

Twitter/FB: Crickets

As an independent voter, I want to hear both sides of the BS from both parties. Have to determine which is less full of $#@t. 

It’s one thing to use something like Twitter to spout your agenda, bullshit ridden as it may be. It’s quite another to use it to incite riots, violence, and insurrection. From a business/market standpoint, I can absolutely understand why Twitter wants nothing to do with it. From a free speech standpoint, what the president did was literally analogous to yelling “fire” in a crowded theater. Sorry. He doesn’t get a pass on either count. 

[Sua Sponte]

[17D_guy]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

It’s one thing to use something like Twitter to spout your agenda, bullshit ridden as it may be. It’s quite another to use it to incite riots, violence, and insurrection. From a business/market standpoint, I can absolutely understand why Twitter wants nothing to do with it. From a free speech standpoint, what the president did was literally analogous to yelling “fire” in a crowded theater. Sorry. He doesn’t get a pass on either count. 

 

2 hours ago, MyCS said:

Twitter/FB: US president personal Twitter account banned.

Govt: Can you ban the accounts of terrorist organizations, dictators, and those who are affiliated with them?

Twitter/FB: Crickets

As an independent voter, I want to hear both sides of the BS from both parties. Have to determine which is less full of $#@t. 

I would also add there is an intelligence reason to not taking those down so fast sometimes.  I cannot go into further detail.

But they do take down a lot of stuff, just because you don't see it doesn't mean its happening.  I've posted on here some about the "hunters" that go after bot/ISIS/disinformation accounts.  Watching their work is pretty amazing.

[BashiChuni]

4 hours ago, Prozac said:

Go spend some time down there. Then come back and tell me we’re the same. No contest brother. 

everyone in DC is bought and paid for. doesn't matter the "R" or the "D" (sts). if you think the most powerful government in world history isn't corrupt....we are probably way worse.

WE NEED TERM LIMITS

 

[Sua Sponte]

3 minutes ago, MyCS said:

It's no secret what methods intelligence agencies use to those with access to our methods and posses the need to know.

The fact you're talking about it here in an open forum is probably not a good idea. Anyone can use this site. No different than talking about high value targets. 

K