The Next President is...

[arg]

11 minutes ago, Homestar said:

I'm teaching them that morality matters.  Am I taking crazy pills?  If we're putting Biden on one end of the scales and Trump on the other and you're telling me that they balance out, I'm telling you that you are taking crazy pills.

Trump was not ok.  Biden might not be okay either, but he is in a different universe from Trump.

I laugh when I hear "you must not be a real conservative."  Really?  Because I didn't kiss the ring of Trump?  

So you're not answering my questions? It' fine if you don't want to, just say so.

[Lord Ratner]

44 minutes ago, Homestar said:

I'm teaching them that morality matters.  Am I taking crazy pills?  If we're putting Biden on one end of the scales and Trump on the other and you're telling me that they balance out, I'm telling you that you are taking crazy pills.

Trump was not ok.  Biden might not be okay either, but he is in a different universe from Trump.

I laugh when I hear "you must not be a real conservative."  Really?  Because I didn't kiss the ring of Trump?  

I didn't say that. I said if you voted for Biden, you aren't conservative. Voting for no one, or Jo Jorgenson, or writing in an honest candidate, all that is consistent with conservatism. Voting for Biden because you can't stand Trump is not. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Lord Ratner

[slackline]

4 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

I didn't say that. I said if you voted for Biden, you aren't conservative. Voting for no one, or MJ Hagar, or writing in an honest candidate, all that is consistent with conservatism. Voting for Biden because you can't stand Trump is not. 

That is an absurd statement.  Period, dot.

 

And Hagar?  Knowing her personally, I'll just go ahead and agree to disagree...

[Homestar]

39 minutes ago, arg said:

Have you explained to your kids how many jobs Biden has killed and how that affects thousands?

Who talks like this to their non adult kids? Are you serious?

39 minutes ago, arg said:

Have you talked about how long Biden has been in politics and what he's done?

No, I didn’t read the Biden biography and ask my kids to do a book report on it. Next. 

 

39 minutes ago, arg said:

I don't know if you have daughters who are into sports but did you tell them Biden says a boy can compete against them and take a shower with them after practice?

Not entirely sure what the context here is. But no, I haven’t told them that Biden wants them to shower with boys. Again, this is a stupid question. 

 

39 minutes ago, arg said:

Was the record low unemployment Bullshit?

Presidents have very little influence on the economy as a whole. Trump also had record high unemployment if you recall 2020 at all. 

 

17 minutes ago, arg said:

Was the record low unemployment Bullshit?

I don’t know who you are, and I don’t care what you believe or teach your kids. I owe you nothing. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Homestar
Multiple quotes not working well on iPhone.

[Homestar]

11 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Voting for Biden because you can't stand Trump is not. 

Believe what you like. History will be on my side on this one. Let’s talk in 20 years and see how Trump is regarded. After all the kool-aid drinking MAGA denizens are gone. 

[arg]

2 minutes ago, Homestar said:

Who talks like this to their non adult kids? Are you serious?

No, I didn’t read the Biden biography and ask my kids to do a book report on it. Next. 

 

Not entirely sure what the context here is. But no, I haven’t told them that Biden wants them to shower with boys. Again, this is a stupid question. 

 

Presidents have very little influence on the economy as a whole. Trump also had record high unemployment if you recall 2020 at all. 

 

 

I don’t know who you are, and I don’t care what you believe or teach your kids. I owe you nothing. 

I said I don't know how old your kids are. Did you miss that part? If they're too young fine.

[Lord Ratner]

10 minutes ago, Homestar said:

Believe what you like. History will be on my side on this one. Let’s talk in 20 years and see how Trump is regarded. After all the kool-aid drinking MAGA denizens are gone. 

Not great at reading what others write? Where am saying otherwise?

 

18 minutes ago, slackline said:

That is an absurd statement.  Period, dot.

 

And Hagar?  Knowing her personally, I'll just go ahead and agree to disagree...

You aren't conservative if you vote for the opposite of conservatism. 

 

Also, I meant to say Jo Jorgenson, not MJ Hagar. My bad. 

[Homestar]

12 minutes ago, arg said:

I said I don't know how old your kids are. Did you miss that part? If they're too young fine.

Quibbling. 

[Homestar]

9 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

You aren't conservative if you vote for the opposite of conservatism.

I’m no republican if that is your measuring stick. I’ve clearly stated here that my vote for Biden was a protest vote against Trump, who was a non-serious clown president. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Homestar

[slackline]

31 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Not great at reading what others write? Where am saying otherwise?

 

You aren't conservative if you vote for the opposite of conservatism. 

 

Also, I meant to say Jo Jorgenson, not MJ Hagar. My bad. 

Are you saying Trump represents conservatism?  Let's not mince words because that is the implication made here by your statement.  

Considering him a vehicle for conservative policies, I could see that.  

Calling Trump conservative is a stretch. He clearly flipped sides to where he thought he'd get the most mileage. There's a difference between showing a career politician who's positions have evolved a flip-flopper, and a man who one second espoused views 180 out from the next second. Trump, for those keeping score falls into the latter category.

[Pooter]

Sorry guys but this isn't really up for debate. Trump will go down as one of if not the worst president in US history. The longer you deny that or make mealy-mouthed statements about how his SC picks were pretty good or how he didn't actively start a new war, the longer you will look like an ignorant fool. Send me your address and I'll ship you 15 more punisher/Molon labe stickers for the back window of your sweet truck.  
 

The best parts of trumps presidency were when he stuck perfectly to a script or when he did absolutely nothing. Anything he actively involved himself in went to shit almost immediately.. including but not limited to: the border wall, immigration in general, covid, saudis murdering a journalist, not being a sexual predator and hanging out with them, the election, Iran, literally anything having to do with the climate, literally anything having to do with race, his own family business, nepotism, any public speaking event ever, his own taxes, public health guidance, respecting people in the military, being tethered to reality etc.. etc.. etc... 

He got three Supreme Court picks.. wow amazing. Now tell me, is that more luck and timing and having a Congress that green-lit them for you or is that just trumps brilliance?  I bet it was the former because his own SC picks didn't seem to think he was too brilliant when he brought them nonsensical election fraud allegations.

 

I would never argue with you over the fact that most politicians are phony and will lie to get ahead.  But there's only one politician in my life and in my parents life and in my grandparents life who denied fair election results right up until the moment his followers invaded the capitol, killed people, and endangered our elected officials who were actively working to certify that election.  It literally took the entire world standing still, looking at America, and wondering, "are they about to implode in a civil war" for this damaged egomaniac to back down. 
 

I'm 1000000% with @Homestar on this one. Trump was bad on a different level.  If one good thing came out of his presidency, it's that his treasonous antics separated the principled conservatives from the droves of bandwagoning celeb-obsessed trash, and maybe that will allow a healthier conservative movement to happen in the future.  

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Pooter

[Prozac]

Never really understood the “we need to elect someone who’ll burn the system down” sentiment that got Trump elected and seems to be driving the Republican Party into oblivion. By all accounts we live in the best time it’s ever been to be a human being. War, disease (even considering the current situation), famine, and poverty are at their lowest points in human history. We each literally have access to most of the data ever collected in the world in the palm of our hands. More of the world is experiencing freedom than ever before. Overall, our lives have been getting progressively better. But somehow the system is suddenly broken beyond fixing? Armed insurrection is the only way forward? Treasonous, conspiracy driven politicians like Trump and Taylor Greene are somehow on the same plane as “traditional” players like Biden, Obama, or Bush?  Sorry, no. I’ll give you that politics is often messy and sometimes dirty. That doesn’t mean it’s not working. Enjoy a nice vacation in the last five years? Own a home? Kids get to go to school every day? Fire department shows up when there’s a fire? The insurrectionist wing of the Republican Party wants to throw all that out with the bath water. Sorry, but I’ll take “traditional” politics, flawed as it is, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. 

[brabus]

4 hours ago, Prozac said:

By all accounts we live in the best time it’s ever been to be a human being.

Yep, and yet we’re hell bent on destroying it and plunging ourselves into a dark shithole. 

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” - we’re in the last part of that quote, and history repeats itself. 
 

[Homestar]

47 minutes ago, brabus said:

Yep, and yet we’re hell bent on destroying it and plunging ourselves into a dark shithole. 

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” - we’re in the last part of that quote, and history repeats itself. 
 

Fear just leads to the dark side. 

[17D_guy]

42 minutes ago, joe1234 said:

The sky is falling! I've always heard people say the country is "going to hell" for like 30 years now. Some people even think the decline started 50 years ago. At what point do we actually get there?

While we're on the subject, who are the weak men supposed to be? If these weak men are creating hard times, then where do the strong men come from? After all, you said history repeats itself. Tread lightly on this answer, because you might end up complimenting the wrong people by accident.

We did just have an armed mob try and storm the capital to capture the Legislature.  So yes, I'd say one more step towards a hell, however we can pull back.  That's the great thing about our country. 

[Lord Ratner]

13 hours ago, slackline said:

Are you saying Trump represents conservatism?  Let's not mince words because that is the implication made here by your statement.  

Considering him a vehicle for conservative policies, I could see that.  

Calling Trump conservative is a stretch. He clearly flipped sides to where he thought he'd get the most mileage. There's a difference between showing a career politician who's positions have evolved a flip-flopper, and a man who one second espoused views 180 out from the next second. Trump, for those keeping score falls into the latter category.

Quite the contrary, I'm saying that Biden represents anti conservativism. If you must add Trump to the equation, he is certainly more conservative than Biden, while not being particularly conservative.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that Biden is the opposite of conservatism. Which is why I pointed out other voting possibilities consistent with conservatism. But voting for the politician and party that is anti-conservative is not one of them.

 

 

[Lord Ratner]

9 hours ago, Prozac said:

Never really understood the “we need to elect someone who’ll burn the system down” sentiment that got Trump elected and seems to be driving the Republican Party into oblivion. By all accounts we live in the best time it’s ever been to be a human being. War, disease (even considering the current situation), famine, and poverty are at their lowest points in human history. We each literally have access to most of the data ever collected in the world in the palm of our hands. More of the world is experiencing freedom than ever before. Overall, our lives have been getting progressively better. But somehow the system is suddenly broken beyond fixing? Armed insurrection is the only way forward? Treasonous, conspiracy driven politicians like Trump and Taylor Greene are somehow on the same plane as “traditional” players like Biden, Obama, or Bush?  Sorry, no. I’ll give you that politics is often messy and sometimes dirty. That doesn’t mean it’s not working. Enjoy a nice vacation in the last five years? Own a home? Kids get to go to school every day? Fire department shows up when there’s a fire? The insurrectionist wing of the Republican Party wants to throw all that out with the bath water. Sorry, but I’ll take “traditional” politics, flawed as it is, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. 

So we can at least agree that the BLM race riots started in May were based on a lie and fueled by lies, and directly in conflict with the reality of society in 2020. 

 

Just like the Capitol riots were based on a lie and fueled by lies, and directly in conflict with the reality of the 2020 election.

 

So why is it then, when it's the best time to be alive, including if you're a black man or woman in America, do people on both sides of the political spectrum feel like the situation is so dire that they must literally set fire to the streets?

 

I suspect it's because of the people we are meant to rely on to tell us the truth, politicians, scientists, media figures, and intellectuals, have decided that winning is more important than honesty. It used to be that Republicans were always on their back foot in this game, because there was a line they didn't seem willing to cross. The Trump era has put an end to that. It seems like the only differentiation between Republicans and Democrats anymore is which lies they fight over.

[slackline]

20 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Quite the contrary, I'm saying that Biden represents anti conservativism. If you must add Trump to the equation, he is certainly more conservative than Biden, while not being particularly conservative.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that Biden is the opposite of conservatism. Which is why I pointed out other voting possibilities consistent with conservatism. But voting for the politician and party that is anti-conservative is not one of them.

 

 

You gave other options, and I’ve written in names in past elections.  This was an election where, potentially, every single vote could have made a difference. I feel like writing in some other name would have been akin to throwing it away.  I wanted to ensure Trump didn’t make it in because I didn’t do my part.  With McCain (American hero, no slight on him there), I didn’t like his politics, but I sure as heck wasn’t voting for Obama.  McCain had no hope of winning anyway, so my write-in didn’t hurt him.

9 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

So we can at least agree that the BLM race riots started in May were based on a lie and fueled by lies, and directly in conflict with the reality of society in 2020. 

 

Just like the Capitol riots were based on a lie and fueled by lies, and directly in conflict with the reality of the 2020 election.

 

So why is it then, when it's the best time to be alive, including if you're a black man or woman in America, do people on both sides of the political spectrum feel like the situation is so dire that they must literally set fire to the streets?

 

I suspect it's because of the people we are meant to rely on to tell us the truth, politicians, scientists, media figures, and intellectuals, have decided that winning is more important than honesty. It used to be that Republicans were always on their back foot in this game, because there was a line they didn't seem willing to cross. The Trump era has put an end to that. It seems like the only differentiation between Republicans and Democrats anymore is which lies they fight over.

You comparing the Capitol riots to riots (not excusing them or calling them good) based on demonstrable and verifiable social inequalities is laughable.  You’re way above this too man.  You’ve put out so many intelligent points over time, that it is weird you’d drop that out there expecting it to land.  Riots=bad.  We all agree.  Capitol Riot was nowhere close to the same thing as the legitimate unrest caused by decades of mistreatment.  

Go ahead, staunch defenders of the white faith, give me your downvotes.  You have very intelligent, die-hard conservatives in here echoing my exact points on what is happening with race relations in this country.  I haven’t seen you downvoting Clearedhot when he disagrees with your view that all is right in the land of social equality...  

[17D_guy]

1 hour ago, slackline said:

You comparing the Capitol riots to riots (not excusing them or calling them good) based on demonstrable and verifiable social inequalities is laughable.  You’re way above this too man.  You’ve put out so many intelligent points over time, that it is weird you’d drop that out there expecting it to land.  Riots=bad.  We all agree.  Capitol Riot was nowhere close to the same thing as the legitimate unrest caused by decades of mistreatment. 

To act like the riots over the exact same thing have happened over and over and over as well.  Are we acting like "those people" just like to riot for no reason?
 

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

So we can at least agree that the BLM race riots started in May were based on a lie and fueled by lies, and directly in conflict with the reality of society in 2020.

I don't know.  Dead dude because of a cops knee on his throat vs. QAnon, and the Pres "going down to the Capitol with them" or his lawyer wanting "trial by combat."

So no, we don't agree.

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, slackline said:

You gave other options, and I’ve written in names in past elections.  This was an election where, potentially, every single vote could have made a difference. I feel like writing in some other name would have been akin to throwing it away.  I wanted to ensure Trump didn’t make it in because I didn’t do my part.  With McCain (American hero, no slight on him there), I didn’t like his politics, but I sure as heck wasn’t voting for Obama.  McCain had no hope of winning anyway, so my write-in didn’t hurt him.

You comparing the Capitol riots to riots (not excusing them or calling them good) based on demonstrable and verifiable social inequalities is laughable.  You’re way above this too man.  You’ve put out so many intelligent points over time, that it is weird you’d drop that out there expecting it to land.  Riots=bad.  We all agree.  Capitol Riot was nowhere close to the same thing as the legitimate unrest caused by decades of mistreatment.  

Go ahead, staunch defenders of the white faith, give me your downvotes.  You have very intelligent, die-hard conservatives in here echoing my exact points on what is happening with race relations in this country.  I haven’t seen you downvoting Clearedhot when he disagrees with your view that all is right in the land of social equality...  

Actually, they are both bullshit, that's exactly what I'm saying. You have a neat way of selectively picking which talking points "represent" a particular side, while conveniently ignoring the others. The fact of the matter is that overwhelmingly what was claimed during the race riots was bullshit. It's not even worth the time to pull up the nearly endless list of prominent leftists making claims as to the fatal nature of black people interacting with the police. But never numbers. When your cause can't be quantified in any way without discrediting the cause then the problem is the cause itself.

 

These riots weren't about getting pulled over more, or getting side eye from a convenience store owner, or gang violence, hell they weren't even about the very real issues of incarceration impacting the ability of black communities to dig out of a very deep hole. Overwhelmingly they were about police brutality towards black people. And the most prominent cases, used as evidence of a systemic attack on black bodies, were misrepresented in ways that discredit the entire argument. And it was merely a continuation of the same lie, with different names and different cases fed into the narrative. Michael brown, trayvon martin, and now George Floyd. 

 

The bad old days of overt American racism are over. They have been for a while. The Civil Rights movement never required the mental gymnastics we see today to justify their protests, and yes, riots. It was plain to see for everyone, and because of such they were triumphant. The difficulties with race in 2021, and specifically within the black community, are much more difficult to address. There is no boogeyman, no villain to unify against. Not whiteness, not the police, not the system.

 

But if I were to apply your logic to it then in fact the capital riots weren't about Trump or election theft, they were very legitimate protests against widespread yet nearly impossible to document election fraud, and just because a few crazies went a little too far, that shouldn't get in the way of the very legitimate and well-documented cause that they are supporting.

 

There is no mortal threat to the black population in the United States from any element of the government, least of all the police. Minimize that claim all you like, but the rest of us don't need to be moralized over taking an argument at face value. One that was made over and over and over for a few years now. There was also no stolen election. Trump lost because Trump is a fucking moron, that's it. Yeah there are plenty of videos unequivocally proving voter fraud, but they are hundreds of votes out of over a hundred million. Neither statistic justifies the response, thus making the riots, on both sides, bullshit.

 

It's completely chicken shit to tell everybody who disagrees with your narrative that they're just defending whiteness. I'm a fucking cuban jew, for Christ's sakes. You think I have a lot of cred in the white supremacist community? You can call out a lie for what it is without having an affinity for your own skin color.

[slackline]

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Actually, they are both bullshit, that's exactly what I'm saying. You have a neat way of selectively picking which talking points "represent" a particular side, while conveniently ignoring the others. The fact of the matter is that overwhelmingly what was claimed during the race riots was bullshit. It's not even worth the time to pull up the nearly endless list of prominent leftists making claims as to the fatal nature of black people interacting with the police. But never numbers. When your cause can't be quantified in any way without discrediting the cause then the problem is the cause itself.

 

These riots weren't about getting pulled over more, or getting side eye from a convenience store owner, or gang violence, hell they weren't even about the very real issues of incarceration impacting the ability of black communities to dig out of a very deep hole. Overwhelmingly they were about police brutality towards black people. And the most prominent cases, used as evidence of a systemic attack on black bodies, were misrepresented in ways that discredit the entire argument. And it was merely a continuation of the same lie, with different names and different cases fed into the narrative. Michael brown, trayvon martin, and now George Floyd. 

 

The bad old days of overt American racism are over. They have been for a while. The Civil Rights movement never required the mental gymnastics we see today to justify their protests, and yes, riots. It was plain to see for everyone, and because of such they were triumphant. The difficulties with race in 2021, and specifically within the black community, are much more difficult to address. There is no boogeyman, no villain to unify against. Not whiteness, not the police, not the system.

 

But if I were to apply your logic to it then in fact the capital riots weren't about Trump or election theft, they were very legitimate protests against widespread yet nearly impossible to document election fraud, and just because a few crazies went a little too far, that shouldn't get in the way of the very legitimate and well-documented cause that they are supporting.

 

There is no mortal threat to the black population in the United States from any element of the government, least of all the police. Minimize that claim all you like, but the rest of us don't need to be moralized over taking an argument at face value. One that was made over and over and over for a few years now. There was also no stolen election. Trump lost because Trump is a fucking moron, that's it. Yeah there are plenty of videos unequivocally proving voter fraud, but they are hundreds of votes out of over a hundred million. Neither statistic justifies the response, thus making the riots, on both sides, bullshit.

 

It's completely chicken shit to tell everybody who disagrees with your narrative that they're just defending whiteness. I'm a fucking cuban jew, for Christ's sakes. You think I have a lot of cred in the white supremacist community? You can call out a lie for what it is without having an affinity for your own skin color.

Sure thing...  Black people should not be afraid of the police. Copy.  They have nothing to worry about.  Parents should stop having "the talk" with their kids. Oh, sorry, I meant black parents because white parents don't do that.  
 

Nobody is cherry picking anything. The unending amount of supporting data showing that the protests (a small handful devolved into riots which are bad in any quantity) over the summer were anything but BS. You and others saying they're BS won't make it so.
 

Maybe I should have been more clear. I wasn't calling you out for down voting things you disagree with.  You've never, tht I've seen, done that.  

[Seadogs]

37 minutes ago, slackline said:

Sure thing...  Black people should not be afraid of the police. Copy.  They have nothing to worry about.  Parents should stop having "the talk" with their kids. Oh, sorry, I meant black parents because white parents don't do that.  
 

Are you black? 

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

I'm a fucking cuban jew, for Christ's sakes. 

I envy you for the excellent food you must’ve had growing up! 
 

I will agree with you that there was no case for riots or violence on either side. Some people are just after anarchy. Hell, in Seattle we just had some of the same folks that were looting last summer out doing an anti Biden public destruction event. Fuck them. 
 

However, I absolutely believe there are structural issues with the way the black community interacts with the American system. Police brutality and policing in general is something that needs to be addressed, and it effects black people disproportionately. I fully support the peaceful protests that were unfortunately upstaged by deranged rioters.

I do not support the conspiracy fueled election protests, peaceful or otherwise. Even if someone didn’t storm the Capitol, if they’re waiving the Q flag, I have no time for them. 

[slackline]

36 minutes ago, Seadogs said:

Are you black? 

Dude, Seadogs, you made bail after the riot?!  That was crazy man, crazy...

In what way does anything I’m saying hinge on my skin color?  If I’m black it’s legit, if I’m not I should stop talking?

[17D_guy]

1 hour ago, Seadogs said:

Are you black? 

No, but I got 1 friend who is.

Why does it even matter. Can't call out bullshit where I see it?