The Next President is...

[Prozac]

6 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

No, it would otherwise be illegal for the government to block it. Have you read either of the actual decisions? Much easier that way.

I’ve read three different briefs on Norwood now. Still not making the connection. Not a lawyer either so maybe I lack the legal vocabulary to understand how the case applies here. 
Regardless, my point remains. The government has not blocked anything. The WH’s position is that social media should not be a conduit for untruths that endanger public health. I’m inclined to agree. 

[ViperMan]

10 minutes ago, Prozac said:

“the problem isn't with "voicing opinions" - the problem is when the government induces, encourages, or promotes action or policy out of a private entity that would be otherwise illegal for them to do.”

This is where I get confused with your argument. Are you stating that it would be “otherwise illegal” for Facebook to block or suppress (or promote for that matter) content on its platform?

No. "Otherwise illegal" is talking about the government, not Facebook. i.e. it is illegal for the government to prohibit speech (generally). It is still illegal when they induce a company to do it on their behalf - that's where the 1st amendment violation comes in.

*If* Facebook or Twitter took it upon themselves to censor that speech, without government intervention, they are 100% free to do so. As you say, Facebook is not a public space - problem is, it doesn't have to be for a first amendment violation to take place when the government intervenes. For example, the government can't censor your speech on a public sidewalk, why would they be able to censor it in your private home?

14 minutes ago, Prozac said:

My argument from another angle: Much of the speech we are talking about could be considered to be in a very grey area in the first place. In the classic example if I yell fire in a theater when none exists, as the first amendment gives me the right to do, I may still be prosecuted for involuntary manslaughter after deaths occur in the ensuing stampede. The same argument holds true if someone states that a vaccine causes infertility (when it does not), thus causing large numbers of people to forgo vaccination leading to preventable deaths. If the theater owner knowingly invited the fire yeller in, he will likely be held complicit in the deaths that occurred. The government views Facebook in the same light at the moment. 

Ok, so now expressing skepticism over getting a vaccine is akin to yelling 'fire' in a movie theater? I think the difference is that one of those acts is capable of causing acute, immediate panic which leads to injury or death - I'd be interested to see that case made in court, re: COVID vaccines. I fully grant that herd immunity is of public health interest.

In any case, are you familiar with the Thalidomide tragedy? What if people had expressed 'doubt' about taking Thalidomide back in the 50s? How would they have fared in our current environment? Point being, the government or PTB don't always know what is best, and mistakes get made. There is no long-term data on COVID-19 or on the side-effects of the vaccine - none. And I think, generally, people can tell the difference between complete and utter BS, and actual healthy skepticism. For example, I got the vaccine - full believer in modern medical tech. Yet simultaneously, I find it much more credible to consider the lab-leak hypothesis for the origin of the virus than I do the zoonotic origin - yet I would be labelled 'conspiratorial' in many circles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

7 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Regardless, my point remains. The government has not blocked anything. The WH’s position is that social media should not be a conduit for untruths that endanger public health.

Well, as a matter of legal fact, it doesn't have to block anything directly. Merely inducing, promoting, or encouraging, is enough to constitute government intervention and a violation of individuals' rights.

[Prozac]

7 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

No. "Otherwise illegal" is talking about the government, not Facebook. i.e. it is illegal for the government to prohibit speech (generally). It is still illegal when they induce a company to do it on their behalf - that's where the 1st amendment violation comes in.

*If* Facebook or Twitter took it upon themselves to censor that speech, without government intervention, they are 100% free to do so. As you say, Facebook is not a public space - problem is, it doesn't have to be for a first amendment violation to take place when the government intervenes. For example, the government can't censor your speech on a public sidewalk, why would they be able to censor it in your private home?

Ok, so now expressing skepticism over getting a vaccine is akin to yelling 'fire' in a movie theater? I think the difference is that one of those acts is capable of causing acute, immediate panic which leads to injury or death - I'd be interested to see that case made in court, re: COVID vaccines. I fully grant that herd immunity is of public health interest.

In any case, are you familiar with the Thalidomide tragedy? What if people had expressed 'doubt' about taking Thalidomide back in the 50s? How would they have fared in our current environment? Point being, the government or PTB don't always know what is best, and mistakes get made. There is no long-term data on COVID-19 or on the side-effects of the vaccine - none. And I think, generally, people can tell the difference between complete and utter BS, and actual healthy skepticism. For example, I got the vaccine - full believer in modern medical tech. Yet simultaneously, I find it much more credible to consider the lab-leak hypothesis for the origin of the virus than I do the zoonotic origin - yet I would be labelled 'conspiratorial' in many circles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide

Well, as a matter of legal fact, it doesn't have to block anything directly. Merely inducing, promoting, or encouraging, is enough to constitute government intervention and a violation of individuals' rights.

Agree that subduing or blocking speech is unconstitutional wrt skepticism (But still not convinced that this is what’s going on). For example, stating that there could be unforeseen consequences is protected. Definitively stating that vaccination causes infertility is not. This is what I was relating to yelling fire in a theater and it’s the kind of thing that’s absolutely going on on these platforms. 

[SurelySerious]

maybe I lack the legal vocabulary to understand how the case applies here. 

Finally.

[1:1:1]

39 minutes ago, Prozac said:

For example, stating that there could be unforeseen consequences is protected. Definitively stating that vaccination causes infertility is not.

Actually, many factually inaccurate statements are in fact protected under the first amendment.

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

 The WH’s position is that social media should not be a conduit for untruths that endanger public health. I’m inclined to agree. 

Public health "experts" have been all over the map. They, nor the white house have any firm domination of the "truth". That trust capital was burned a long time ago.

Hell your boy fauci ADMITTED on national TV to LYING to us! And now the executive branch has the god damn BALLS to tell me what's fucking true and whats false? Go fuck yourself (not you, "them" in general)

[Prozac]

31 minutes ago, 1:1:1 said:

Actually, many factually inaccurate statements are in fact protected under the first amendment.

Correct. However, the repercussions of those statements (I.e. trampling deaths) can still be prosecuted under other statutes and laws. 

[Prozac]

30 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

Public health "experts" have been all over the map. They, nor the white house have any firm domination of the "truth". That trust capital was burned a long time ago.

Hell your boy fauci ADMITTED on national TV to LYING to us! And now the executive branch has the god damn BALLS to tell me what's fucking true and whats false? Go fuck yourself (not you, "them" in general)

Do you think he lied with malicious  intent or perhaps as a calculated strategy to protect access to PPE to those that needed it most? Do you believe that a coordinated response can change and evolve over time as the nature of the threat becomes more clear? If Fauci was replaced with someone else do you believe they would be telling you something different? What if we were still under the previous administration? Who would you believe at this point?  I am not trying to argue that our response has been, or is perfect. Regardless, the CDC, the NIH, and the US Surgeon General continue to be the world standard when it comes to understanding and fighting infectious disease. Would you rather go with the Russian narrative? The Chinese one? Random dude on YouTube with no credentials? 
 

BTW thanks for qualifying your GFY statement although I wouldn’t have been offended either way. I hear much worse from the frau on a daily basis! 🍻 

[Lord Ratner]

49 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Correct. However, the repercussions of those statements (I.e. trampling deaths) can still be prosecuted under other statutes and laws. 

Not unless it was incitement.

 

A directive to cause harm ("go out and punish the cops for killing minorities!") Is not protected. A lie that others use to justify harm ("police are murdering minorities for sport!") is protected.

 

You should brush up on the precedent, you're off base on a lot of this stuff.

[arg]

I think I started a thread about this subject awhile back?

[BashiChuni]

5 hours ago, Prozac said:

Do you think he lied with malicious  intent or perhaps as a calculated strategy to protect access to PPE to those that needed it most? Do you believe that a coordinated response can change and evolve over time as the nature of the threat becomes more clear? If Fauci was replaced with someone else do you believe they would be telling you something different? What if we were still under the previous administration? Who would you believe at this point?  I am not trying to argue that our response has been, or is perfect. Regardless, the CDC, the NIH, and the US Surgeon General continue to be the world standard when it comes to understanding and fighting infectious disease. Would you rather go with the Russian narrative? The Chinese one? Random dude on YouTube with no credentials? 
 

BTW thanks for qualifying your GFY statement although I wouldn’t have been offended either way. I hear much worse from the frau on a daily basis! 🍻 

We have gone with the Chinese one. 
 

Lockdowns. That have been proven not to work! Also masks have proven not to work. CA public health authorities were telling people to not lay down on the beach otherwise they’d get COVID. There are a million examples of public health “experts” being 100% full of shit. 
 

and I think Fauci was telling the truth the first time when he said don’t wear masks. 

[brickhistory]

Biden gets handed note, " Mr President, you have something on your chin."

Biden wipes it off, looks at it, eats it.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/07/30/joe-biden-gets-aides-note-sir-there-is-something-on-your-chin/

 

Totally a Hunter Biden move.  I guess we see where he gets it from...

 

 

 

[kaputt]

US-Mexico border arrests in June are highest in at least a decade - CNNPolitics

After Border Patrol release, asylum-seekers test positive for Covid in Brownsville, Texas (nbcnews.com)

The border remains an absolute shit show and I honestly think its the hot button item that pisses me off the most about this administration. Open borders and shipping COVID positive illegals around the country meanwhile lecturing the rest of the American public about how we need to keep up the fight against COVID. If you cared so much about COVID maybe you wouldn't let hundreds of thousands of people stream across our border in less than 6 months. 

It's become quite obvious that the border is being purposely left open as there has literally been zero action to stop this. And it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination to realize that its likely a democrat plan to use demographic change to ensure votes. Actually pretty disgusting when you really think about it and its really infuriating that it seems this administration cares more about non-citizens than actual Americans. 

[Negatory]

Kinda funny, arrests of illegal immigrants (by government employees, mind you) are at a high - you choose to interpret it as the gov doing nothing.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Negatory

[kaputt]

No shit arrests are at a high; an unprecedented amount of illegals are streaming across the border daily, many simply choosing to turn themselves in to the Border Patrol (this counts as apprehension) because they know they'll get a notice to appear with no date and a bus ticket to anywhere they want in the country. Maybe you should ask those government employees dealing with these migrants on a daily basis how they feel about the current administration.

‘U.S. Welcome Patrol’: how some border agents are struggling with Biden’s policy shift | Reuters

And yes, this admin has literally done nothing to stop the nearly unprecedented amount of people flooding our border. I'm sorry but Kamala Harris saying "Do not cum", while a funny meme, is not actual policy. And throwing the poor Border Patrol and CBP agents to the wolves and then patting ourselves on the back saying "well at least arrests are up" is as dumb as listing off the body count of dead Viet Cong as evidence that we won the Vietnam War. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by kaputt

[lloyd christmas]

Politics today.  A governor getting recalled, another one about to get legitimately impeached, state legislators on the run, a shell president who is losing his mental capacities, trillions and trillions of dollars being spent, inflation at a 13 year high, open borders, unnecessary lockdowns, people getting paid more to stay home, etc.   I’d say things are going really well!   

Edited August 5, 2021 by lloyd christmas

[Boomer6]

5 hours ago, kaputt said:

No shit arrests are at a high; an unprecedented amount of illegals are streaming across the border daily, many simply choosing to turn themselves in to the Border Patrol (this counts as apprehension) because they know they'll get a notice to appear with no date and a bus ticket to anywhere they want in the country. Maybe you should ask those government employees dealing with these migrants on a daily basis how they feel about the current administration.

‘U.S. Welcome Patrol’: how some border agents are struggling with Biden’s policy shift | Reuters

And yes, this admin has literally done nothing to stop the nearly unprecedented amount of people flooding our border. I'm sorry but Kamala Harris saying "Do not cum", while a funny meme, is not actual policy. And throwing the poor Border Patrol and CBP agents to the wolves and then patting ourselves on the back saying "well at least arrests are up" is as dumb as listing off the body count of dead Viet Cong as evidence that we won the Vietnam War. 

Dude, you’re wasting your time. Your view may be based on the facts but those facts are counter to the political narrative of the current administration, and more disappointingly the counter-American service members on this forum. You’ll never get them to admit they’re perfectly fine admitting illegals to the country en masse because it will ensure their party has a better chance at maintaining power. The illegals are simply a tool to facilitate the agenda, any consequence of their leeching off of the country can easily be rectified with higher taxes.

[Guardian]

And the taxpayers are forced to pay for it at the end of the gun

[Negatory]

54 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

Dude, you’re wasting your time. Your view may be based on the facts but those facts are counter to the political narrative of the current administration, and more disappointingly the counter-American service members on this forum. You’ll never get them to admit they’re perfectly fine admitting illegals to the country en masse because it will ensure their party has a better chance at maintaining power. The illegals are simply a tool to facilitate the agenda, any consequence of their leeching off of the country can easily be rectified with higher taxes.

The more I approach this forum as a real time sociology exhibit, the more I feel at peace. 

I don’t know how you guys function believing everything is a conspiracy, from vaccines to immigrants to cabals. But I’ll join - Down with the Illuminati! Down with Gates! Down with Antifa who are personally driving drug cartels into America!

[Boomer6]

Yeah, I guess life is simple when you believe the party opposed to you is only highlighting positive things while whitewashing anything that could be argued to be divisive. That must only be a conservative trait, liberals are too elite to engage in such shady messaging.

[kaputt]

4 hours ago, Negatory said:

The more I approach this forum as a real time sociology exhibit, the more I feel at peace. 

I don’t know how you guys function believing everything is a conspiracy, from vaccines to immigrants to cabals. But I’ll join - Down with the Illuminati! Down with Gates! Down with Antifa who are personally driving drug cartels into America!

Man, who knew that three fact based articles about the border situation from Reuters, CNN, and NBC News was all actually just part of some right wing conspiracy theory…

[kaputt]

5 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

Dude, you’re wasting your time.

I suppose you’re right. 
 

I always thought that hardcore Trumpers were the best of the best at putting aside all rational and fact based thinking in order to blindly support the man and the cause. 
 

But the left these past 6-9 months has put on an absolute masterclass of the same thing. 

[ViperMan]

8 hours ago, Negatory said:

The more I approach this forum as a real time sociology exhibit, the more I feel at peace. 

I don’t know how you guys function believing everything is a conspiracy, from vaccines to immigrants to cabals. But I’ll join - Down with the Illuminati! Down with Gates! Down with Antifa who are personally driving drug cartels into America!

So now Pizzagate, Qanon, and microchipped vaccines are akin to wanting a secure border? Or wanting the people who are here to be American, want them to be American, and be actual participants in our system...not just here for a handout from the greatest civilization on Earth? Do you seriously not think there are legitimate problems being identified by the right in this country? Or is everything racist?

GTFOH.

[lloyd christmas]

9 hours ago, Negatory said:

I don’t know how you guys function believing everything is a conspiracy, from vaccines to immigrants to cabals. But I’ll join - Down with the Illuminati! Down with Gates! Down with Antifa who are personally driving drug cartels into America!

Why do people on the left/Democrat party think they have the market cornered on accusing people of being conspiracy theorists???  That’s ALL that went on leading up to Trump’s election, during his Presidency and even now.  Russia, Russia, Russia!!!!!!!   

[arg]

The prez isn’t invited to the former prez birthday party. I guess because it’s being “scaled back “.


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