The Next President is...

[SpeedOfHeat]

7 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Thanks for responding, and I agree with the desire for better choices. I won't be holding my breath.

 

I think a fairly large disconnect right now between Republican voters and Democratic voters is summed up nicely above. You can't see how Republicans aren't as horrified as you are about the occurrences on January 6th. But the truth of the matter is the Republicans have been horrified for quite some time, and January 6th was just the ultimate instance of what-about-ism. Democrats danced gleefully, rationalized, or at the very least looked the other way while dozens of cities in the US burned over the overt lie that police were massacring unarmed black people.

 

A whole lot of well-intentioned but foolishly gullible liberals, and a whole second cohort of people who just wanted to burn something down, destroyed the livelihoods of small business owners, looted bigger businesses, and literally set fire to government buildings. Crickets. Major political figures, including the vice president, made statements that implied these rioters were in fact heroes. Go ahead and dig around now, it is almost impossible to find any prominent liberal figures who made unqualified condemnations of the riots. "Yeah, stealing is bad, but....."

 

So by the time January 6th happened, for a lot of people like me who have no sympathy for Donald Trump losing the election that was absolutely his to lose, and no sympathy for the fools who bought into his narrative and stormed the capital, it doesn't jive that I'm supposed to lose my mind over what happened simply because it's the first instance of unjustified rioting that you or the Democrats are upset about. Welcome to the party.

I've said this for 5 years, and in 5 years I've been proven wildly86 correct. Donald Trump was the response from conservatives to a political system that had become cartoonishly dishonest. And the imbalance in Washington and the media that covers it created an environment where conservatives were regularly characterized as evil, bigoted, backwoods, stupid, ignorant, racist, sexist, imperialist, redneck, hyper religious, anti immigrant deplorables. Objectively good men like George W Bush, Mitt Romney, and (after Trump was elected) Brett Kavanaugh were treated like reincarnations of Hitler. Kavanaugh was openly accused of being a gang rapist on the basis of zero evidence and quite a bit of counter evidence, so if you want to know where the final straw was from the conservative side, that was it for a lot of us.

Now, and what I can only interpret as a tragedy for the country, the right has seemingly decided that if you can't beat them join them. The left doesn't seem particularly fond of their own medicine, and maybe with some time that will be what's needed for us to find a better way. But really this is just a long way of saying we agree on January 6th, but you've been ignoring all of the January 6ths that came before, and since I am not particularly fond of anything that has come out of Washington DC for many, many years, I don't see why I should be more upset that people vandalized the capital over when people vandalized the true lifeblood of this country, small business and entrepreneurialship (the icons of individual liberty and freedom) all while attacking the rule of law, another institution that sets us apart in the world.

Great post.  I think the part we can't reconcile is that I see the comparison to the George Floyd riots as a false equivalency.  It's just not the same.  **Which is NOT to say it didn't matter or it was not a big deal. 

Criminal acts should be condemned.  But not all criminal acts are the same.  A murderer gets different treatment than a shoplifter.  The Jan 6th disgrace came from the top.  It was inspired by the POTUS.

And it was such a bad lie, which is to say it was an obvious lie.  In the lead up to 2016, Trump thought he was going to lose.... so the election was 'rigged.'  Then he won and all the claims of fraud and rigging vanished.  Weird.  Then in the lead-up to 2020 he recycled the same nonsense.  Except this time he DID lose and he felt he had to double down on it.  Those idiots in the Capitol would absolutely not have been there if Trump had any dignity whatsoever and simply conceded.

The looting and rioting in the name of George Floyd... and the Kavenaugh accusations..... no question... ridiculous.  An outrage.  But it didn't originate from the President of the United States.  (How could it, since Trump was President at the time.)  And those rioters didn't invade the Capitol, with Congress in session.  Again, this is probably where we agree to disagree.  That's fine.   

Riots are terrible and inexcusable, but the original question was about how Biden voters feel about their decision.  "Still not Hillary" was a common response to point-out's of Trump's constant idiocy.  But people on the hard right can't now understand the same sentiment from Biden voters?

People often finish criticizing Biden by ending with the snarky: "but at least there's no mean tweets" zinger. 

It's so stupid.  Try criticizing Biden and ending with: "but at least there's no gallows outside the Capitol and kevlar-wearing idiots on the senate floor rifling through senators desks while calling for the Vice President's execution."

A little bit harder to make the sarcasm work in that example, isn't it?

What I think we can agree on is that they're not mutually exclusive.  You don't HAVE to support the Floyd riots and condemn Jan 6th.  Or vis versa.  You can condemn both.

And I can see Bode's post that just popped up as I'm writing this:  "What about.... what about..."  Yes, terrible. We agree, Bode.  Celebrities shouldn't call for the President's death and people shouldn't attack/ invade police precincts.

We should be able to criticize Bush and Obama and Trump and Biden.  Across party lines.  For the things they've messed up that are objectively bad.  And we should be able to praise/appreciate their successes.  But, unfortunately, uncompromising tribalism rules the day.  And voters must cast their votes according to their conscience, interests, and priorities.

[Guardian]

You’re right. Their not the same. To use your analogy the 6 Jan event would be the shoplifter and from Mr Floyd’s death to current day in the false name of all the things they stood for is the murderer in your analogy as they actually murdered,looted,raped, and burned for an extended period of time in the name of their cause. I believe last I heard damages alone to insurance companies were 4 Billion just for the summer of 2020.

[Springer]

The Most Anti-American Man in America

By: Judd Garrett

October 26, 2021

As we saw on display during his “town-hall” meeting on CNN this Thursday, Joe Biden is completely incapable as a President, and as a human being. If Joe Biden were not President, he would need 24/7 in-home care. He is incapable of taking care of the necessities of his own day-to-day life, much less running a country of 330 million, with the largest economy and the most powerful army. So, if he is not running the country, who is? It clearly is not Kamala Harris. She has been shipped to political Siberia. She is rarely seen and barely heard other than the grating echoes of her cackles. What we are witnessing on the big stage of American politics is “Weekend at Bernie’s” with a fluttering heartbeat. Joe Biden is making no decisions. He is doing nothing by himself. He is the stooge. This is not a defense of Biden for all the horrible decisions that “his” administration has made so far, but cognitively Biden is not capable of running this country. Someone behind the scenes is calling the shots.

So, if it is not Joe Biden, who is running this country? Who decided to open the borders to millions of illegal immigrants? Who signed off on the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal? Who is bringing in tens of thousands of unvetted, non-ally Afghans into America? Who is printing so much money that we’re on the verge of “hyperinflation”? Who shut down so many parts of our energy sector that we are no longer energy independent, and are back to relying on OPEC for energy? Who is pushing this divisive racial agenda which is tearing our country apart? Who is labeling concerned parents domestic terrorists? Who has weaponized the FBI against everyday citizens based on their political beliefs? Who?

The person orchestrating all of this owns a mansion in the shadows of the White House. He is a power-hungry narcissist who is only concerned with implementing the far-left agenda. His name is Barack Hussein Obama. He lives within walking distance of the White House, and the vast majority of Joe Biden’s staff were in his administration. Who do you think those people are listening to, someone who they think is the next coming of the messiah or a cognitively impaired elderly man who doesn’t know what day it is, and just wants to be left alone to have his ice cream cone?

America is not supposed to have a shadow government. Transparency of its leaders is a core principle. But Obama does not believe that principle should apply to him. In an interview reflecting on his time in the White House, Obama said his ideal setup as President would be, a “third-term… where I had a stand-in, a frontman, or frontwoman, and they had an earpiece in, and I was just in my basement in my sweats, looking through the stuff, and I could, sort of, deliver the lines, and someone else was doing all the talking, and the ceremony. I’d be fine with that.” Not only is that is a brief glimpse of what is happening in real-time, it exposed what an extreme narcissist he is, and how not only does he not understand the fundamental concept of our system of government, but he is hostile toward it. Obama’s vision of his ideal “third term” is him as an unaccountable king or a czar, someone who can’t be bothered to answer to the lowly people whose money he is spending, and whose lives he is controlling. He simply wants the people to shut up and comply with his dictates.

Obama recently told Virginia voters who are concerned about teaching their kids Critical Race Theory, and the dangers of the radical gender ideology which caused a 14-year-old girl to be raped in Loudoun County, Virginia; “We don’t have time to be wasting on these phony, trumped-up culture wars, this fake outrage that right-wing media pedals… we should be doing more to support people who are educating our kids and keeping our neighborhoods safe.” That is a perfect illustration of what Obama does. He pushes an agenda that harmed a young girl and then blamed the people who objected to his agenda. He sets the building on fire and then criticizes the firefighters for flooding the building to put out the fire he started. Obama said nothing about keeping our neighborhoods and kids safe during the 5 months of riots in our communities in 2020, or when Democrat lawmakers were defunding the police. He didn’t care about educating our kids when he repealed school choice legislation as President.

Does anyone remember back in 2006 or even 2007, before Obama, when black and white people actually got along? The time before every white person was characterized as a “racist” for simply being born white, and every black person was labeled a victim when people were people regardless of their skin color? What our country is transforming into is directly aligned with Obama’s Marxist vision for the world. Obama’s father was a Marxist politician in Kenya, and in his book, Dreams of My Father, President Obama wrote, “To avoid being mistaken for a sellout. I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist Professors and the structural feminists.” This is a very revealing passage about the man. Not only is he acknowledging his Marxist’s leanings, but he admitted that he embraced those radical ideologies, not on intellectual or rational grounds, but because he did not want to be viewed as a “sell-out”. His need to be accepted by other black people because of his father’s abandonment of him steered him to his radical Marxist ideology and is also the reason why he uses race and false accusations of racism into bullying people into compliance to the Marxist ideology because, as he admitted, that is what happened to him.

And in alignment with his Marxist beliefs, Obama, when he was running for President, promised to “fundamentally transform” America. For someone who chooses his words as carefully and artfully as Obama, this was not a misstatement or an overstatement. It was exactly what he did while President, and is continuing to do in the shadows - “fundamentally transform” America. That should scare the hell out of every American. He didn’t say “restore America’s values” or “return America to its founding principles”. No, he said, “fundamentally transform.” He was not arguing that America lost its way over the last 200 years, and must rediscover the ideals of its founding; life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, equality, individual rights, constrained government. No, “fundamentally transform” was a direct assault on the fundamental values of America which are in direct opposition to Marxist ideology, and why Obama has to “fundamentally transform” America.

What made Martin Luther King Jr so powerful, so effective, and so great for America is that he embraced the American founding principles, and used them as a mirror to show America where it had gone wrong. In many of his speeches, Dr. King repeated the words of our Constitution or Declaration of Independence back to his fellow Americans, to expose to America where we have failed to live up to our founding principles when it came to the black community. And he was absolutely right. He saw our founding principles as right and necessary for his cause of equal rights and freedom for black Americans. Dr. King believed the fact that we had failed to live up to those principles, meant it was the people, not the principles, who needed to change.

Obama believes the exact opposite. He believes because America has failed to live up to its founding principles, it is the principles and the foundation of the country that must change. That is why these harmful policies that he has been orchestrating over the last 9 months are designed to tear America down to its studs, so he can “fundamentally transform” America, and rebuild it in his own image.

Not only is Obama the most un-American man in America, but he may also be the most dangerous man on the planet. The record of history is very clear and very consistent. An unaccountable narcissist who controls the levers of power of one of the most powerful countries on the planet always ends up in major atrocities. And that is exactly what is going on behind the scenes at the White House.

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Springer

[Lord Ratner]

12 hours ago, SpeedOfHeat said:

Great post.  I think the part we can't reconcile is that I see the comparison to the George Floyd riots as a false equivalency.  It's just not the same.  **Which is NOT to say it didn't matter or it was not a big deal. 

Criminal acts should be condemned.  But not all criminal acts are the same.  A murderer gets different treatment than a shoplifter.  The Jan 6th disgrace came from the top.  It was inspired by the POTUS.

And it was such a bad lie, which is to say it was an obvious lie.  In the lead up to 2016, Trump thought he was going to lose.... so the election was 'rigged.'  Then he won and all the claims of fraud and rigging vanished.  Weird.  Then in the lead-up to 2020 he recycled the same nonsense.  Except this time he DID lose and he felt he had to double down on it.  Those idiots in the Capitol would absolutely not have been there if Trump had any dignity whatsoever and simply conceded.

The looting and rioting in the name of George Floyd... and the Kavenaugh accusations..... no question... ridiculous.  An outrage.  But it didn't originate from the President of the United States.  (How could it, since Trump was President at the time.)  And those rioters didn't invade the Capitol, with Congress in session.  Again, this is probably where we agree to disagree.  That's fine.   

Riots are terrible and inexcusable, but the original question was about how Biden voters feel about their decision.  "Still not Hillary" was a common response to point-out's of Trump's constant idiocy.  But people on the hard right can't now understand the same sentiment from Biden voters?

People often finish criticizing Biden by ending with the snarky: "but at least there's no mean tweets" zinger. 

It's so stupid.  Try criticizing Biden and ending with: "but at least there's no gallows outside the Capitol and kevlar-wearing idiots on the senate floor rifling through senators desks while calling for the Vice President's execution."

A little bit harder to make the sarcasm work in that example, isn't it?

What I think we can agree on is that they're not mutually exclusive.  You don't HAVE to support the Floyd riots and condemn Jan 6th.  Or vis versa.  You can condemn both.

And I can see Bode's post that just popped up as I'm writing this:  "What about.... what about..."  Yes, terrible. We agree, Bode.  Celebrities shouldn't call for the President's death and people shouldn't attack/ invade police precincts.

We should be able to criticize Bush and Obama and Trump and Biden.  Across party lines.  For the things they've messed up that are objectively bad.  And we should be able to praise/appreciate their successes.  But, unfortunately, uncompromising tribalism rules the day.  And voters must cast their votes according to their conscience, interests, and priorities.

Yeah we definitely disagree on the importance of the capitol. The BLM riots resulted in hundreds if not thousands of people's lives being ruined, and a few dozen being ended. The capital riots did substantially less damage, and overwhelmingly to the idiots who perpetrated it. I consider the government to be for the protection of the people, so if I have to choose between the the livelihoods of regular citizens in every major city, and the building that failed so spectacularly over the last few years to protect their interests, it's an easy choice for me.

 

And while I get the argument that things are worse when they come from the president, I guess you and I also disagree on the sanctity of the presidency. In my lifetime every president has failed to live up to the standard we should expect. Whether it was Bill Clinton defiling an intern in the oval office, or Obama planting the seeds that have brought us to this new world of chaotic racial division, or everything Trump did publicly, I viewed Trump as merely the outward expression of the political disease that has infected Washington for a long time. And I think that's why they hated him so much. He looked the way they acted, and that was a threat to the very good deal they were all operating under for a long time.

 

I also push back on the notion that the BLM riots didn't originate from a president. Those riots didn't start in 2020, they started in Ferguson years before (with another outright lie supported still to this day by the left), and we're well aware of who the president was at that time. He also had a funny way of not quite endorsing yet casually supporting a notion that was patently false and led people to riot. Very Trumpian of him.

 

Like you said, it's very tribal now. I think liberals have had a very rosy view on political discourse because at the end of the day, until Trump no one was calling them evil for their mainstream beliefs on a national scale. Now the same bitter hate the conservatives have watched for a couple decades is going both directions. Part of me thinks that's a very bad thing for all of us, but maybe that's what it's going to take for both sides to realize that no one wins in this arms race of dishonorable behavior.

 

And on a political level, Virginia proves that the Democrats have violated the only constant rule in American society. Don't fuck with my kids.

[GrndPndr]

3 hours ago, Springer said:

<snip>
Does anyone remember back in 2006 or even 2007, before Obama, when black and white people actually got along? The time before every white person was characterized as a “racist” for simply being born white, and every black person was labeled a victim when people were people regardless of their skin color?

<snip>

I grew up in the all white suburbs of Detroit, and I've spent the last 45+ years (my adult life) trying to remove all of the stereotypical racist thoughts instilled in me by parents, friends and others.  I thought I was doing pretty well, I moved beyond looking at someone's color to judge them.  I was even able to look beyond someone's culture, and not to judge them.  I just wanted everyone to be able to at least have some form of civil discourse during our everyday lives.

And then the summer of 2020 happened, and I learned that I am still (and always will be) a racist - and that there's nothing I can do about it.  I also learned that black (and some white people) don't like me because I'm white (my perception here).  So we're back to judging by skin color?

So all that hard earned trust built over decades has come crashing down.

How will I rebuild that trust again?

 

[brickhistory]

https://www.mediaite.com/news/feds-arrest-analyst-tied-to-salacious-steele-dossier/

 

Quote

Danchenko’s arrest is part of the special counsel investigation by John Durham, who since April 2019 has been looking into the origins of the Department of Justice’s Trump-Russia probe.

 

[FLEA]

2 hours ago, brickhistory said:

https://www.mediaite.com/news/feds-arrest-analyst-tied-to-salacious-steele-dossier/

 

 

So the guy working for the guy the Dems hired to prove Trump was (allegedly) colluding with Russians was (allegedly) colluding with Russians.... Fuck. 

[Prozac]

On 11/3/2021 at 7:57 AM, Springer said:

The Most Anti-American Man in America

By: Judd Garrett

October 26, 2021

As we saw on display during his “town-hall” meeting on CNN this Thursday, Joe Biden is completely incapable as a President, and as a human being. If Joe Biden were not President, he would need 24/7 in-home care. He is incapable of taking care of the necessities of his own day-to-day life, much less running a country of 330 million, with the largest economy and the most powerful army. So, if he is not running the country, who is? It clearly is not Kamala Harris. She has been shipped to political Siberia. She is rarely seen and barely heard other than the grating echoes of her cackles. What we are witnessing on the big stage of American politics is “Weekend at Bernie’s” with a fluttering heartbeat. Joe Biden is making no decisions. He is doing nothing by himself. He is the stooge. This is not a defense of Biden for all the horrible decisions that “his” administration has made so far, but cognitively Biden is not capable of running this country. Someone behind the scenes is calling the shots.

So, if it is not Joe Biden, who is running this country? Who decided to open the borders to millions of illegal immigrants? Who signed off on the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal? Who is bringing in tens of thousands of unvetted, non-ally Afghans into America? Who is printing so much money that we’re on the verge of “hyperinflation”? Who shut down so many parts of our energy sector that we are no longer energy independent, and are back to relying on OPEC for energy? Who is pushing this divisive racial agenda which is tearing our country apart? Who is labeling concerned parents domestic terrorists? Who has weaponized the FBI against everyday citizens based on their political beliefs? Who?

The person orchestrating all of this owns a mansion in the shadows of the White House. He is a power-hungry narcissist who is only concerned with implementing the far-left agenda. His name is Barack Hussein Obama. He lives within walking distance of the White House, and the vast majority of Joe Biden’s staff were in his administration. Who do you think those people are listening to, someone who they think is the next coming of the messiah or a cognitively impaired elderly man who doesn’t know what day it is, and just wants to be left alone to have his ice cream cone?

America is not supposed to have a shadow government. Transparency of its leaders is a core principle. But Obama does not believe that principle should apply to him. In an interview reflecting on his time in the White House, Obama said his ideal setup as President would be, a “third-term… where I had a stand-in, a frontman, or frontwoman, and they had an earpiece in, and I was just in my basement in my sweats, looking through the stuff, and I could, sort of, deliver the lines, and someone else was doing all the talking, and the ceremony. I’d be fine with that.” Not only is that is a brief glimpse of what is happening in real-time, it exposed what an extreme narcissist he is, and how not only does he not understand the fundamental concept of our system of government, but he is hostile toward it. Obama’s vision of his ideal “third term” is him as an unaccountable king or a czar, someone who can’t be bothered to answer to the lowly people whose money he is spending, and whose lives he is controlling. He simply wants the people to shut up and comply with his dictates.

Obama recently told Virginia voters who are concerned about teaching their kids Critical Race Theory, and the dangers of the radical gender ideology which caused a 14-year-old girl to be raped in Loudoun County, Virginia; “We don’t have time to be wasting on these phony, trumped-up culture wars, this fake outrage that right-wing media pedals… we should be doing more to support people who are educating our kids and keeping our neighborhoods safe.” That is a perfect illustration of what Obama does. He pushes an agenda that harmed a young girl and then blamed the people who objected to his agenda. He sets the building on fire and then criticizes the firefighters for flooding the building to put out the fire he started. Obama said nothing about keeping our neighborhoods and kids safe during the 5 months of riots in our communities in 2020, or when Democrat lawmakers were defunding the police. He didn’t care about educating our kids when he repealed school choice legislation as President.

Does anyone remember back in 2006 or even 2007, before Obama, when black and white people actually got along? The time before every white person was characterized as a “racist” for simply being born white, and every black person was labeled a victim when people were people regardless of their skin color? What our country is transforming into is directly aligned with Obama’s Marxist vision for the world. Obama’s father was a Marxist politician in Kenya, and in his book, Dreams of My Father, President Obama wrote, “To avoid being mistaken for a sellout. I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist Professors and the structural feminists.” This is a very revealing passage about the man. Not only is he acknowledging his Marxist’s leanings, but he admitted that he embraced those radical ideologies, not on intellectual or rational grounds, but because he did not want to be viewed as a “sell-out”. His need to be accepted by other black people because of his father’s abandonment of him steered him to his radical Marxist ideology and is also the reason why he uses race and false accusations of racism into bullying people into compliance to the Marxist ideology because, as he admitted, that is what happened to him.

And in alignment with his Marxist beliefs, Obama, when he was running for President, promised to “fundamentally transform” America. For someone who chooses his words as carefully and artfully as Obama, this was not a misstatement or an overstatement. It was exactly what he did while President, and is continuing to do in the shadows - “fundamentally transform” America. That should scare the hell out of every American. He didn’t say “restore America’s values” or “return America to its founding principles”. No, he said, “fundamentally transform.” He was not arguing that America lost its way over the last 200 years, and must rediscover the ideals of its founding; life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, equality, individual rights, constrained government. No, “fundamentally transform” was a direct assault on the fundamental values of America which are in direct opposition to Marxist ideology, and why Obama has to “fundamentally transform” America.

What made Martin Luther King Jr so powerful, so effective, and so great for America is that he embraced the American founding principles, and used them as a mirror to show America where it had gone wrong. In many of his speeches, Dr. King repeated the words of our Constitution or Declaration of Independence back to his fellow Americans, to expose to America where we have failed to live up to our founding principles when it came to the black community. And he was absolutely right. He saw our founding principles as right and necessary for his cause of equal rights and freedom for black Americans. Dr. King believed the fact that we had failed to live up to those principles, meant it was the people, not the principles, who needed to change.

Obama believes the exact opposite. He believes because America has failed to live up to its founding principles, it is the principles and the foundation of the country that must change. That is why these harmful policies that he has been orchestrating over the last 9 months are designed to tear America down to its studs, so he can “fundamentally transform” America, and rebuild it in his own image.

Not only is Obama the most un-American man in America, but he may also be the most dangerous man on the planet. The record of history is very clear and very consistent. An unaccountable narcissist who controls the levers of power of one of the most powerful countries on the planet always ends up in major atrocities. And that is exactly what is going on behind the scenes at the White House.

 

I heard JFK Jr didn’t show up at the rally the other day. Must’ve been disappointing. Sorry man. Silver lining: I heard Michael Jackson DID make an appearance. Jealous! 

[dream big]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:39 PM, SpeedOfHeat said:

Great post.  I think the part we can't reconcile is that I see the comparison to the George Floyd riots as a false equivalency.  It's just not the same.  **Which is NOT to say it didn't matter or it was not a big deal. 

Criminal acts should be condemned.  But not all criminal acts are the same.  A murderer gets different treatment than a shoplifter.  The Jan 6th disgrace came from the top.  It was inspired by the POTUS.

And it was such a bad lie, which is to say it was an obvious lie.  In the lead up to 2016, Trump thought he was going to lose.... so the election was 'rigged.'  Then he won and all the claims of fraud and rigging vanished.  Weird.  Then in the lead-up to 2020 he recycled the same nonsense.  Except this time he DID lose and he felt he had to double down on it.  Those idiots in the Capitol would absolutely not have been there if Trump had any dignity whatsoever and simply conceded.

The looting and rioting in the name of George Floyd... and the Kavenaugh accusations..... no question... ridiculous.  An outrage.  But it didn't originate from the President of the United States.  (How could it, since Trump was President at the time.)  And those rioters didn't invade the Capitol, with Congress in session.  Again, this is probably where we agree to disagree.  That's fine.   

Riots are terrible and inexcusable, but the original question was about how Biden voters feel about their decision.  "Still not Hillary" was a common response to point-out's of Trump's constant idiocy.  But people on the hard right can't now understand the same sentiment from Biden voters?

People often finish criticizing Biden by ending with the snarky: "but at least there's no mean tweets" zinger. 

It's so stupid.  Try criticizing Biden and ending with: "but at least there's no gallows outside the Capitol and kevlar-wearing idiots on the senate floor rifling through senators desks while calling for the Vice President's execution."

A little bit harder to make the sarcasm work in that example, isn't it?

What I think we can agree on is that they're not mutually exclusive.  You don't HAVE to support the Floyd riots and condemn Jan 6th.  Or vis versa.  You can condemn both.

And I can see Bode's post that just popped up as I'm writing this:  "What about.... what about..."  Yes, terrible. We agree, Bode.  Celebrities shouldn't call for the President's death and people shouldn't attack/ invade police precincts.

We should be able to criticize Bush and Obama and Trump and Biden.  Across party lines.  For the things they've messed up that are objectively bad.  And we should be able to praise/appreciate their successes.  But, unfortunately, uncompromising tribalism rules the day.  And voters must cast their votes according to their conscience, interests, and priorities.

The back and forth here highlights one of the top problems in this country : the two party system.  It’s always either-or, for or against, black and white (or in this case blue and red).  It’s 2021, yet we decide the most important office in the world in a dichotomy. I don’t agree with a lot of what you said (Trump had a big mouth but to blame him for the 06 Jan riots is simplistic at best.  There were thousands of peaceful protestors that day, a few idiots decided to take it too far…almost kind of like to Floyd protests, weird)..but I don’t blame you for feeling that way considering we are only given two choices. 
 

While I voted for Trump twice no question, and think Biden is a bumbling embarrassment, I don’t blame Biden voters.  I blame this corrupt two party system that only serves itself.  To that end, that is why I think Trump was so important to the average American, and to the same token - why I’m a big Tulsi fan.  
 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by dream big

[ClearedHot]

7 hours ago, FLEA said:

So the guy working for the guy the Dems hired to prove Trump was (allegedly) colluding with Russians was (allegedly) colluding with Russians.... Fuck. 

Its actually worse than that (hard to believe).

Danchenko (Who has ties to Russian and did PR work for them previous to this), was used as a source and he himself fabricated information.  He lied to the FBI (one of the reasons he was indited on five charges), about meetings, phone calls and a trip to Russia to get the "Pee tape"...that trip was a fabrication.  In reality he was a pawn.

Charles Dolan, A Clinton Advisor met with Danchecnko multiple times and fed him more false information knowing it was going into the dossier, that Hillary was paying for.

They still needed a way to get the information to the FBI (and the press).  Enter Fiona Hill, a member of the NSC.  She is now linked to the Steele Dossier and bringing it to light.  WORST OF ALL...The Democrats called her as a witness in the impeachment trial.

If you are upset about January 6th (as am I), you should be equally OUTRAGED by what happened here.  The Clinton Campaign and the NCS were knee deep in fake information that was used to impeach a sitting president and overturn an election.

By the way, that's Charles Dolan in the picture with Biden.  I used to laugh when people said the phrase "deep state", I am not laughing now.

I can't believe anyone would think this is alright.

 

[SpeedOfHeat]

1 hour ago, dream big said:

The back and forth here highlights one of the top problems in this country : the two party system.  It’s always either-or, for or against, black and white (or in this case blue and red).  It’s 2021, yet we decide the most important office in the world in a dichotomy.

I agree, but I think the real tragedy is that, for the overwhelming majority of people, it's a perceived, not actual, dichotomy. 

The media want us to believe it has to be one or the other:  Everyone who's outraged by Jan 6th are totally supportive of BLM riots.  And everyone outraged by BLM riots are Trump cultists that are a-okay with Jan 6th. 

It's bull$hit. 

It's designed to make people pissed off and/or afraid, since those are the two emotions most easily exploited for viewership/ratings.

In my experience, there's a LOT of common ground when regular people actually talk to each other.  Much, much less so when they watch mainstream media and build corresponding echo chambers out of their phone. 

**The same faulty dualistic thinking applies to the candidates themselves.  We're led to believe that if you support Trump, you must despise Biden.  And vis versa.  Totally false. 

You said you consider Biden a bumbling embarrassment.  Totally agree.  ...But I also think Trump was a bumbling embarrassment. 

Imagine if we had two decent, competent humans running.  Hard for most Americans to picture at this point, but yes, it is also possible to genuinely like both candidates.

Edited November 5, 2021 by SpeedOfHeat

[uhhello]

1 hour ago, SpeedOfHeat said:

I agree, but I think the real tragedy is that, for the overwhelming majority of people, it's a perceived, not actual, dichotomy. 

The media want us to believe it has to be one or the other:  Everyone who's outraged by Jan 6th are totally supportive of BLM riots.  And everyone outraged by BLM riots are Trump cultists that are a-okay with Jan 6th. 

It's bull$hit. 

It's designed to make people pissed off and/or afraid, since those are the two emotions most easily exploited for viewership/ratings.

In my experience, there's a LOT of common ground when regular people actually talk to each other.  Much, much less so when they watch mainstream media and build corresponding echo chambers out of their phone. 

**The same faulty dualistic thinking applies to the candidates themselves.  We're led to believe that if you support Trump, you must despise Biden.  And vis versa.  Totally false. 

You said you consider Biden a bumbling embarrassment.  Totally agree.  ...But I also think Trump was a bumbling embarrassment. 

Imagine if we had two decent, competent humans running.  Hard for most Americans to picture at this point, but yes, it is also possible to genuinely like both candidates.

That's a bingo.  The extremes have the loudest voices.  Twitterverse isn't America.  You would certainly think it though if you turned on the news.  

[Sim]

8 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Its actually worse than that (hard to believe).

 

It's actually MUCH worse than what you think. 

 All of the key players are described in this book. (POTUS, NSA, FBI, CIA, DNC, Media etc) 

Ref; 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089T89XL6/ref=kinw_myk_ro_title?asin=B089T89XL6&revisionId=97f50408&format=1&depth=1

[Lord Ratner]

12 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

 

I can't believe anyone would think this is alright.

 

They don't. The problem is they don't believe it in the first place. The current system has been set up perfectly so that each side inherently does not believe the other side.

 

This is the problem with making a broad derogatory judgement about the other "side." If you simply disagree with someone, it's not hard to find common ground. But no one wants to have common ground with someone who is evil or stupid.

 

And unfortunately it's not just Democrats now. It blows my mind how many captains I fly with honestly believe that liberal voters hate success, or hate white people, or hate America. Make no mistake, I believe the highest level of political activists, media personalities, and in many cases elected politicians on the left do in fact hate America as it is today and are indeed Marxist at heart. But to think that Insanity infects the average Democratic voter is nuts.

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

They don't. The problem is they don't believe it in the first place. The current system has been set up perfectly so that each side inherently does not believe the other side.

 

This is the problem with making a broad derogatory judgement about the other "side." If you simply disagree with someone, it's not hard to find common ground. But no one wants to have common ground with someone who is evil or stupid.

 

And unfortunately it's not just Democrats now. It blows my mind how many captains I fly with honestly believe that liberal voters hate success, or hate white people, or hate America. Make no mistake, I believe the highest level of political activists, media personalities, and in many cases elected politicians on the left do in fact hate America as it is today and are indeed Marxist at heart. But to think that Insanity infects the average Democratic voter is nuts.

I appreciate this sentiment. On the flip side, there were an awful lot of Democratic voters who vilified anyone voting for Trump as a racist, fascist hypocrite. You and I may not agree on much here, but I think we are on the same page when I hear you argue against defining large swaths of Americans by actions of people off in the fringes. Thanks for being a voice of reason here. 

[Guest]

On 11/4/2021 at 7:34 PM, ClearedHot said:

By the way, that's Charles Dolan in the picture with Biden.  I used to laugh when people said the phrase "deep state", I am not laughing now.

Welcome newfriend. The ride never ends.

[arg]

[Sim]

On 11/1/2021 at 8:09 AM, FLEA said:

Certainly don't have to worry about your kid's listening to Biden's sex scandals when the media covers it up

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Sim

[Guardian]

Is there a negative to project Veritas? Are they tied to a negative group or something? I don’t know a ton about them other than the obvious of themselves connecting to Christianity by virtue of the name.

[pawnman]

17 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Is there a negative to project Veritas? Are they tied to a negative group or something? I don’t know a ton about them other than the obvious of themselves connecting to Christianity by virtue of the name.

They were linked to the Trump campaign in 2016 and taken to court for "political spying".

A few of the videos have been shown to be edited in dishonest ways.

That said...they've gotten some interesting soundbites out of liberals over the past few years, including Bernie's campaign manager claiming they'd set a major city on fire if he didn't win the nomination (I think it was Minneapolis, but I could be wrong.)

[Sim]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

They were linked to the Trump campaign in 2016 and taken to court for "political spying".

A few of the videos have been shown to be edited in dishonest ways.

That would be a view from MSNBC or typical lying left. 

 

I think PV forced lying news to retract their lies over 350 times. 

 

 

 

[ClearedHot]

Camilla Parker Bowles can’t stop talking about Joe Biden’s ‘long fart’

I finally found a reason to like Biden.

[dream big]

On 11/6/2021 at 9:22 AM, pawnman said:

They were linked to the Trump campaign in 2016 and taken to court for "political spying".

A few of the videos have been shown to be edited in dishonest ways.

That said...they've gotten some interesting soundbites out of liberals over the past few years, including Bernie's campaign manager claiming they'd set a major city on fire if he didn't win the nomination (I think it was Minneapolis, but I could be wrong.)

Par for the course for the average Bernie supporter.  

[brickhistory]

Speaking of Project Veritas, the FBI has been raiding numerous homes of the their journalists, including O'Keefe's.

Searching for the "stolen" diary of the President's daughter.  Which contains some icky stuff concerning "inappropriate" showers with said daughter and senile Joe. (Diary was supposedly left behind at a rehab clinic and found by next patient who tried selling it to various outlets including Project Veritas)

Project Veritas did NOT run any of the material and tried to return it to a Biden lawyer who refused it.  So they turned it over to law enforcement for return to Biden's.

Another outlet did print some of the material just prior to the election, but it gained no traction with any major outlets.

Imagine if that were Trump's name associated with said showers - like the non-existent Russian golden showers or insinuations of incest with his daughter.

I used to have so much respect for the FBI.  Now, I wouldn't give them the time of day and would instantly lawyer up if an agent so much as said "Good morning" to me.

Sad.

[FLEA]

3 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Camilla Parker Bowles can’t stop talking about Joe Biden’s ‘long fart’

I finally found a reason to like Biden.

This story is fucking amazing.