The Next President is...

[dream big]

3 hours ago, Prozac said:

For once I agree with you in that this would be the smartest course of action for the Dems. But I'm going to disagree that they are smart enough to execute this plan.  And while I think there are some interesting potential Republican prospects, I have my doubts that that party can get out from under the Trump/populist faction.  I guess I'm kind of pessimistic at the moment.  I expect at least another four years of dumpster fire whether its Trump 2.0 or Biden gridlocked with an uncooperative (to say the least) Republican congress.

In what world do you see Biden winning an election again? Like you said, he won last time because Trump shot himself and his party in the foot.  Who are the dems going to make the scapegoat this time? Biden was always a moron but his deep rooted incompetency didn’t come to light until he took office - aka Afghanistan.  
 

Heck I don’t know of a single democrat that even tries to admit he is doing a decent job, even our resident NSPLAYR.

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, dream big said:

Heck I don’t know of a single democrat that even tries to admit he is doing a decent job, even our resident NSPLAYR.

Lol are you sure?

I like Biden enough and I think the economy in particular is doing much better than people's perceptions of it; the sentiment is unmorred from the reality. Powell at the Fed + very robust emergency/recovery spending from Congress since spring 2020 have given the US a giant leg up economically coming out of the pandemic compared to peer democracies in Europe and elsewhere. Essentially full employment at this stage is an incredible achievement and 2021 has the strongest GDP growth since 1984.

The main problems remains that the pandemic is not over and that's obviously spreading a lot of bad vibes in general. Hard to be optimistic when there's a lot of plague and death everywhere! Unfortunately the enemy gets a vote.

Some unforced errors from the Biden Admin ranging from SMH to "wow, what a f*ck up," but I'm not trying to debate y'all blow-by-blow here. I give them the benefit of the doubt for good intent and y'all do not, I get it. I wish Biden were not 1,000 years old and had that view all through the 2020 primary and even when I voted for him.

Harris has been an absolute liability politically and is an unwise successor if Biden decides not to run in 2024. Some of my more preferred candidates would be Jared Polis (CO governor), Stacey Abrams (assuming she wins GA governor in 2022) and Mayor / Transpo Secretary Pete Buttigieg. Senators Amy Klobuchar and Michael Bennett are also good in my book.

The world where Biden wins again is where Trump is the GOP nominee, simply because Trump is such a wildcard/liability in many regards. A replacement-level GOP governor/senator with relatively Trump-aligned rhetoric I think wins in 2024, that's what I'm expecting to happen at least.

Incumbency is also a huge advantage that should not be underestimated...I seem to remember about 96.9% of y'all being absolutely sure Obama would lose in 2012 due to perceived poor performance.

Edited January 29, 2022 by nsplayr

[dream big]

16 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Lol are you sure?

I like Biden enough and I think the economy in particular is doing much better than people's perceptions of it; the sentiment is unmorred from the reality. Powell at the Fed + very robust emergency/recovery spending from Congress since spring 2020 have given the US a giant leg up economically coming out of the pandemic compared to peer democracies in Europe and elsewhere. Essentially full employment at this stage is an incredible achievement and 2021 has the strongest GDP growth since 1984.

The main problems remains that the pandemic is not over and that's obviously spreading a lot of bad vibes in general. Hard to be optimistic when there's a lot of plague and death everywhere! Unfortunately the enemy gets a vote.

Some unforced errors from the Biden Admin ranging from SMH to "wow, what a f*ck up," but I'm not trying to debate y'all blow-by-blow here. I give them the benefit of the doubt for good intent and y'all do not, I get it. I wish Biden were not 1,000 years old and had that view all through the 2020 primary and even when I voted for him.

Harris has been an absolute liability politically and is an unwise successor if Biden decides not to run in 2024. Some of my more preferred candidates would be Jared Polis (CO governor), Stacey Abrams (assuming she wins GA governor in 2022) and Mayor / Transpo Secretary Pete Buttigieg. Senators Amy Klobuchar and Michael Bennett are also good in my book.

The world where Biden wins again is where Trump is the GOP nominee, simply because Trump is such a wildcard/liability in many regards. A replacement-level GOP governor/senator with relatively Trump-aligned rhetoric I think wins in 2024, that's what I'm expecting to happen at least.

Incumbency is also a huge advantage that should not be underestimated...I seem to remember about 96.9% of y'all being absolutely sure Obama would lose in 2012 due to perceived poor performance.

I appreciate your civil response, truly …even though I think most of the candidates you mentioned are terrible to our democracy..Polis actually impressed me, in a good way, when he wiped his ass with all the Covid hype.  I’d like to see more people like him and Tulsi, on both sides of the aisle. 

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

Lol are you sure?

I like Biden enough and I think the economy in particular is doing much better than people's perceptions of it; the sentiment is unmorred from the reality. Powell at the Fed + very robust emergency/recovery spending from Congress since spring 2020 have given the US a giant leg up economically coming out of the pandemic compared to peer democracies in Europe and elsewhere. Essentially full employment at this stage is an incredible achievement and 2021 has the strongest GDP growth since 1984.

The main problems remains that the pandemic is not over and that's obviously spreading a lot of bad vibes in general. Hard to be optimistic when there's a lot of plague and death everywhere! Unfortunately the enemy gets a vote.

Some unforced errors from the Biden Admin ranging from SMH to "wow, what a f*ck up," but I'm not trying to debate y'all blow-by-blow here. I give them the benefit of the doubt for good intent and y'all do not, I get it. I wish Biden were not 1,000 years old and had that view all through the 2020 primary and even when I voted for him.

Harris has been an absolute liability politically and is an unwise successor if Biden decides not to run in 2024. Some of my more preferred candidates would be Jared Polis (CO governor), Stacey Abrams (assuming she wins GA governor in 2022) and Mayor / Transpo Secretary Pete Buttigieg. Senators Amy Klobuchar and Michael Bennett are also good in my book.

The world where Biden wins again is where Trump is the GOP nominee, simply because Trump is such a wildcard/liability in many regards. A replacement-level GOP governor/senator with relatively Trump-aligned rhetoric I think wins in 2024, that's what I'm expecting to happen at least.

Incumbency is also a huge advantage that should not be underestimated...I seem to remember about 96.9% of y'all being absolutely sure Obama would lose in 2012 due to perceived poor performance.

Stacy Abrams? It would be fascinating to see the Democrats embrace an election denier so soon after Donald Trump.

Buttigeg has no spine, he's a self hating white guy, which gets you kiddos from the commentariat, but not the voters.

 

Klobuchar is solid, for a dem.

 

Biden is not responsible for the current economic situation, but he wanted to dump 3.5 plus trillion dollars onto an already raging inflation fire, so regardless of his culpability, he's embracing it.

 

I think Biden vs Trump 2.0 goes to Trump at this point, but way too early to be sure. It's going to be way too easy for him to point at the impending financial catastrophe and say "see? Look at what you got for picking Joe." Trump is also very good at leveraging the Democratic psychosis regarding transgender politics, border security, and other only-political-elites-think-this-way topics against the Democrats. Since Biden has been very visible and on the record for the past 4 years as president, he won't be able to do with the rest of the Democrats do and pretend like they just happened to have different positions on these issues. He has to own the party position.

 

I think against any other democrat, Trump loses. I sincerely hope that we don't run that experiment.

 

The biggest threat for the Democratic party is that they have committed to a bunch of extreme positions that the liberal voters were generally able to ignore because they were removed from everyday life. But Virginia showed that once those issues start creeping into real life, support for the party falls off. I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen more Democrats jumping ship towards the center after the Virgina kids and NJ near-miss, in fact some seem to be doubling down, but I'm fairly certain that by August or September every Democrat up for election is going to look a whole lot like Joe Manchin.

[nsplayr]

2 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

I think against any other democrat, Trump loses.

Really? Of the two most likely 2024 candidates by far, Biden and Harris, I think Biden has a much better chance of winning.

[kaputt]

Dear god, the thought of having to choose between Stacey Abrams and Donald Trump in the next election sends shivers down my spine.

 

[FLEA]

Whoever made this is phenomenal 😂 

 

 

Uncle Joe. 

 

 

 

[slc]

2 hours ago, FLEA said:

Whoever made this is phenomenal 😂 

 

 

Uncle Joe. 

 

 

 

I just spit my coffee out.....

Mayor Pete for Prez!?  YES!!!

 

[Lord Ratner]

9 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Really? Of the two most likely 2024 candidates by far, Biden and Harris, I think Biden has a much better chance of winning.

Yeah, but that's largely because I think the next few years are going to be economically terrible, and that colors voters like nothing else. Biden owns it like every president owns the economy, deserved or not. Biden has also made the border situation a complete disaster, and that's the original issue that got Trump elected. Pile on some not-unfounded rhetoric about the racist and anti-science topics of CRT and transgenderism being put into enough schools to make a dent, and Biden is going to have a tough time on the debate stage.

 

Plus his clear cognitive decline. Biden is not then man he was is 2019 even

 

If I'm wrong and the economy is fine, different story.

 

I think Kamala loses to any reasonable candidate. The DNC will do everything they can to get rid of her, as they should.

[NKAWTG]

 

[Sua Sponte]

11 hours ago, dream big said:

I appreciate your civil response, truly …even though I think most of the candidates you mentioned are terrible to our democracy..Polis actually impressed me, in a good way, when he wiped his ass with all the Covid hype.  I’d like to see more people like him and Tulsi, on both sides of the aisle. 

Do you live in Colorado? I do and I like Polis. He left COVID up to the counties to deal with where they could deal with what restrictions, if any, they wanted to impose. When people here complain about Polis, I inform them about the idiot that runs Washington, Inslee. 

[Lord Ratner]

5 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

Do you live in Colorado? I do and I like Polis. He left COVID up to the counties to deal with where they could deal with what restrictions, if any, they wanted to impose. When people here complain about Polis, I inform them about the idiot that runs Washington, Inslee. 

It's almost as though local control is an effective way run a massive nation. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[ClearedHot]

On 1/26/2022 at 11:48 PM, nsplayr said:

Believe what you want on the other points, but this is not true.

• DJIA close 3 Nov 2020 (election day): 27,480
• DJIA close 20 Jan 2021 (inauguration day): 31,188
• DJIA close 26 Jan 2022 (today): 34,168

 

• S&P 500 close 3 Nov 2020: 3,369
• S&P 500 close 20 Jan 2021: 3,851
• S&P 500 close 26 Jan 2022: 4,349

Stocks have indeed taken a dip off all-time highs in the last 3 weeks but...🤷‍♂️

I should have been more precise, "MY" gains have been wiped out (too much tech), or were wiped out until the bounce back on Friday.  That being said is your "believe what you want on the other points" a hand waive at the other issues?

I choose to believe Biden completely screwed the Afghanistan Withdraw, I guess you disagree.

I choose to believe Biden and his massive government plans have caused inflation, I guess you disagree.

I choose to believe that Biden stood in front of a camera during the campaign and said "I am going to shutdown the virus."  He also said of the pandemic "I am going to end this.  Finally, during the last Presidential debate he said "anyone who is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America."  This clown now has MORE deaths during his term than Trump did.  I guess you choose not to believe those facts.

I don't want a war with Russia and yes it is a very complicated situation that has a long history including a security promise made by the United States if Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons.  I don't know if Trump would have defended Ukraine (from his recent statements saying it is a Europe problem probably not).  Regardless, Biden's diminished mental capacity and continued word scramble makes him and us look weak.  Good look up his "small incursion" comments...to me it sure sounded like a green light to Putin.

Before taking office Biden announced he would end Trump's tariffs on China, and aide had to walk those comments back.  Yes I know it is a complicated situation but the mixed messages...When Biden took office he immediately suspended a planned arms sale to Taiwan (and other countries as you are aware).  At that point China started ever increasing incursions into Taiwan's airspace.  Those incursions are not weekly with large force presentations of 40-50 aircraft strike groups.  It took Biden until August to "re-approve" the paused sale.  So yes I choose to believe China is doing whatever they want thanks to us looking weak. 

I choose to believe Biden campaigned on bringing the country back together...he said it multiple times.  Looking beyond the record number of Executive Orders he signed.  He also has supported ending the filibuster, he opened the borders and has secret flights dumping ILLEGALS into our cities every night, and has supported a lot of far left proposals.  Sorry but I choose to believe that is NOT bringing us back together and governing from the middle.

I choose to believe he has NOT re-established America on the world stage as he promised.  Also, when he calls a reporter a "stupid son of a bitch" I don't think that is restoring dignity to the office of the President.

Again, Trump is an ass, a horrible person, but I don't see how the haters simply hand waive the lies, mental decline and failure that is Biden the meat puppet.

 

[Negatory]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I should have been more precise, "MY" gains have been wiped out (too much tech), or were wiped out until the bounce back on Friday.  That being said is your "believe what you want on the other points" a hand waive at the other issues?

I choose to believe Biden completely screwed the Afghanistan Withdraw, I guess you disagree.

I choose to believe Biden and his massive government plans have caused inflation, I guess you disagree.

I choose to believe that Biden stood in front of a camera during the campaign and said "I am going to shutdown the virus."  He also said of the pandemic "I am going to end this.  Finally, during the last Presidential debate he said "anyone who is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America."  This clown now has MORE deaths during his term than Trump did.  I guess you choose not to believe those facts.

I don't want a war with Russia and yes it is a very complicated situation that has a long history including a security promise made by the United States if Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons.  I don't know if Trump would have defended Ukraine (from his recent statements saying it is a Europe problem probably not).  Regardless, Biden's diminished mental capacity and continued word scramble makes him and us look weak.  Good look up his "small incursion" comments...to me it sure sounded like a green light to Putin.

Before taking office Biden announced he would end Trump's tariffs on China, and aide had to walk those comments back.  Yes I know it is a complicated situation but the mixed messages...When Biden took office he immediately suspended a planned arms sale to Taiwan (and other countries as you are aware).  At that point China started ever increasing incursions into Taiwan's airspace.  Those incursions are not weekly with large force presentations of 40-50 aircraft strike groups.  It took Biden until August to "re-approve" the paused sale.  So yes I choose to believe China is doing whatever they want thanks to us looking weak. 

I choose to believe Biden campaigned on bringing the country back together...he said it multiple times.  Looking beyond the record number of Executive Orders he signed.  He also has supported ending the filibuster, he opened the borders and has secret flights dumping ILLEGALS into our cities every night, and has supported a lot of far left proposals.  Sorry but I choose to believe that is NOT bringing us back together and governing from the middle.

I choose to believe he has NOT re-established America on the world stage as he promised.  Also, when he calls a reporter a "stupid son of a bitch" I don't think that is restoring dignity to the office of the President.

Again, Trump is an ass, a horrible person, but I don't see how the haters simply hand waive the lies, mental decline and failure that is Biden the meat puppet.

 

Embrace the us vs them; You are trying way too hard to make everything Biden’s fault. A potentially coherent argument started falling off the tracks as soon as you tried to pin inflation purely on the Biden admin.

Last time I checked, the highest amount of quantitative easing ever along with the highest unemployment rate in recent history occurred in 2020. Oh, and the first President to give out economic stimulus checks…

And supporting the filibuster is inane. There are actually no coherent reasons for it - it entirely “cheats” the planned way government legislation is supposed to work and forces supermajorities when they never were supposed to be required. The only argument is “hurr, durr, it’s been this way for a while.” Oh, and it typically helps conservatives more than liberals.

[SurelySerious]

And supporting the filibuster is inane. There are actually no coherent reasons for it - it entirely “cheats” the planned way government legislation is supposed to work and forces supermajorities when they never were supposed to be required. The only argument is “hurr, durr, it’s been this way for a while.” Oh, and it typically helps conservatives more than liberals.

Is that what Harry Reid told you?

[ClearedHot]

1 hour ago, Negatory said:

Embrace the us vs them; You are trying way too hard to make everything Biden’s fault. A potentially coherent argument started falling off the tracks as soon as you tried to pin inflation purely on the Biden admin.

Last time I checked, the highest amount of quantitative easing ever along with the highest unemployment rate in recent history occurred in 2020. Oh, and the first President to give out economic stimulus checks…

And supporting the filibuster is inane. There are actually no coherent reasons for it - it entirely “cheats” the planned way government legislation is supposed to work and forces supermajorities when they never were supposed to be required. The only argument is “hurr, durr, it’s been this way for a while.” Oh, and it typically helps conservatives more than liberals.

Words words words, don't waste your time, stopped reading your drivel a long time ago.

[Guardian]

That’s very unfair of you Negatory. Biden is working hard to make sure everything is his fault! Don’t take that away from him.

[dream big]

1 hour ago, Negatory said:

Embrace the us vs them; You are trying way too hard to make everything Biden’s fault. A potentially coherent argument started falling off the tracks as soon as you tried to pin inflation purely on the Biden admin.

Last time I checked, the highest amount of quantitative easing ever along with the highest unemployment rate in recent history occurred in 2020. Oh, and the first President to give out economic stimulus checks…

And supporting the filibuster is inane. There are actually no coherent reasons for it - it entirely “cheats” the planned way government legislation is supposed to work and forces supermajorities when they never were supposed to be required. The only argument is “hurr, durr, it’s been this way for a while.” Oh, and it typically helps conservatives more than liberals.

Most things aren’t Biden’s fault (just like most were not Trump’s).  The global shame that was the *way* we pulled out of Afghanistan, STS, falls squarely on Biden and his useless senior officials.  There was no contingency plan, the timeline was purely political.  If nothing else, we left Americans behind, we left our interpreters who risked their lives behind.  Not one member of the cabinet fired over this. 

[ClearedHot]

12 minutes ago, dream big said:

Most things aren’t Biden’s fault (just like most were not Trump’s).  The global shame that was the *way* we pulled out of Afghanistan, STS, falls squarely on Biden and his useless senior officials.  There was no contingency plan, the timeline was purely political.  If nothing else, we left Americans behind, we left our interpreters who risked their lives behind.  Not one member of the cabinet fired over this. 

13 dead Marines and a hand waive of both responsibility and compassion by some on this forum.  Whatever you think about staying or leave Afghanistan what happened was an absolute abortion and lays squarely at the feet of the Commander in Chief.

[Negatory]

7 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Words words words, don't waste your time, stopped reading your drivel a long time ago.

The mark of an educated man that is confident in his beliefs.

[FLEA]

9 hours ago, Negatory said:

Embrace the us vs them; You are trying way too hard to make everything Biden’s fault. A potentially coherent argument started falling off the tracks as soon as you tried to pin inflation purely on the Biden admin.

Last time I checked, the highest amount of quantitative easing ever along with the highest unemployment rate in recent history occurred in 2020. Oh, and the first President to give out economic stimulus checks…

And supporting the filibuster is inane. There are actually no coherent reasons for it - it entirely “cheats” the planned way government legislation is supposed to work and forces supermajorities when they never were supposed to be required. The only argument is “hurr, durr, it’s been this way for a while.” Oh, and it typically helps conservatives more than liberals.

That's not true. The filibuster serves am important role to keep bipartisanship. 

Progressives want to get rid of it so they can ram down a far left agenda while they hold government without any obstacles. The moderate and more experienced democrats know that is a double edged sword. Those reforms would only last as long as the Democrats hold government and then in possibly 4 to 8 years the country would be yo-yo'd the other direction when Republicans did the exact same thing. 

The majority of Americans sit closer to the middle than the extremes. While an accident to start, the filibuster ended fulfilling an important role of keeping policy centrist or focused on compromise. There are very moderate republicans in Senate. If Democrats can't get 9 of them to cross the isle they are trying to pass an agenda that is too extreme and need to come back to the center. 

[Prozac]

23 minutes ago, FLEA said:

That's not true. The filibuster serves am important role to keep bipartisanship. 

Progressives want to get rid of it so they can ram down a far left agenda while they hold government without any obstacles. The moderate and more experienced democrats know that is a double edged sword. Those reforms would only last as long as the Democrats hold government and then in possibly 4 to 8 years the country would be yo-yo'd the other direction when Republicans did the exact same thing. 

The majority of Americans sit closer to the middle than the extremes. While an accident to start, the filibuster ended fulfilling an important role of keeping policy centrist or focused on compromise. There are very moderate republicans in Senate. If Democrats can't get 9 of them to cross the isle they are trying to pass an agenda that is too extreme and need to come back to the center. 

My bet is conservatives would be using the exact same tactics if the tables were turned. Both parties seem to be more than willing  to use “nuclear” options these days. Your argument is valid but I doubt you’d be making it if the shoe was on the other foot. 

[HeloDude]

On 1/28/2022 at 10:38 AM, SurelySerious said:

Conflict of interest a bit much.

Conflict of interest has nothing to do with something being Constitutional or not.  

[SurelySerious]

Conflict of interest has nothing to do with something being Constitutional or not.  

Well hopefully should it be attempted, with someone casting the DECIDING vote on appointing themselves for a lifetime on the nation’s highest court…there would be a challenge.

Anyone worthy of actually being on that bench would recuse themselves from that vote. Also, who the brought up constitutionality? I said she shouldn’t be allowed.

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

My bet is conservatives would be using the exact same tactics if the tables were turned. Both parties seem to be more than willing  to use “nuclear” options these days. Your argument is valid but I doubt you’d be making it if the shoe was on the other foot. 

I cant, in recent memory, recall Republicans threatening to end the filibuster. Regardless, as a centrist, my interest is to keep it. I would not approve of it if either party eliminated it. 

And people who argue to get rid of it tend to be short sighted. When removing it effectively loses elections for you and the other party takes over, how much will you enjoy having their agenda  rammed down your throat? Whats the point of passing laws if they will just go away in 2-4 years? The filibuster is an excellent mechanism to ensure laws that are passed are sustainable and won't simply be overturned every time a new party is popular.