The Next President is...

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

I love when people try to redefine Catholicism in a way that suits their political beliefs. The Catholic Church is structured in a very clear manner, and the accepted views of the church are equally clear. You either believe them or you don't, but you don't get to pretend that you're part of the club if you're not willing to abide by the Constitution and bylaws.

It's one thing to claim to be Christian when you don't have mainstream Christian beliefs. But Catholicism is a very specific type of Christianity

Are you Catholic or speculating (or both?) The rules, beliefs and norms of the Church vary widely across the world and are very, very much debated and reinterpreted all the time! It’s absolutely not an unchanging set of very clear beliefs and it never, never has been since the time of Jesus and the apostles themselves.

When bishops disagree on a big issue it all becomes a bit unclear, wouldn’t you say? They’re all bishops, who is right? When bishops disagree with the Pope, it reflects the diversity of opinion in a global and universal church! That’s the most generous interpretation.

The less generous interpretation is that random activist bishops should feel free to STFU unless they are making a ruling for a resident of their particular diocese AND they’re willing to admit they’re openly defying the Pope because of how important the issue is.

Do those bishops deny communion to murders in prison? To those who don’t help the poor? To those who haven’t followed any other number of God’s commandments and Jesus’ teachings?

My opinion as a lay Catholic is that communion is a sacrament between God and the person receiving it, and whether it’s “valid” and sanctifying or not is between God and that person, not the minister who happens to be handing out the host.

By all means, preach that abortion is a sin, that is the teaching of the Church. But to deny communion over one particular sin and really not for any other is a much bigger issue actually.

The Pope is on the record as saying Biden should continue receiving communion and is a “good Catholic.” Last time I checked, he’s in charge of the Church. Case open and shut for me at least.

Edited January 20, 2023 by nsplayr

[dream big]

7 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Some bishops have said that is their policy in their dioceses. Biden receives communion at least weekly in DC and/or Delaware AFAIK and probably did so from the Pope himself in 2021.

Some bishops truly are the uptight, fussy, clerical little princes of their territories and enact some truly anti-catholic policies IMHO. Not very good pastors if that’s a policy hill you’re willing to die on.

I never said I agreed with it, as a Catholic I believe the church should accept you no matter how shitty of a person you are in real life; I just find it comical that’s all!

[Biff_T]

On 1/19/2023 at 10:00 AM, GrndPndr said:

Okay, so I realize this isn't the most important thing ever, but you may find amusement with this.  Perhaps, we can start to call him "Mr. Natural?"

 

[Tank]

16 hours ago, Biff_T said:

 

[dream big]

4 hours ago, Tank said:

 

I thought he “grew up in a Black Church”? Or was that just another pandering talking point to win over the African American vote? 

[pawnman]

9 minutes ago, dream big said:

I thought he “grew up in a Black Church”? Or was that just another pandering talking point to win over the African American vote? 

Did he hand out the purple heart in his home church? 

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/12/bidens-story-about-uncle-frank-doesnt-add-up/

[HeloDude]

On 1/18/2023 at 7:01 PM, nsplayr said:

Here it is, pass it on!

I thought the left said that we don’t have voting rights and hence why need to pass the Voting Rights bill from the last Congress 🤷‍♂️ 

[Lord Ratner]

20 hours ago, pawnman said:

Did he hand out the purple heart in his home church? 

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/12/bidens-story-about-uncle-frank-doesnt-add-up/

100% a sign of dementia. It's sad, but also a bit horrifying. I guess it didn't end horribly when Regan was in office, so I doubt it will this time either.

[ClearedHot]

Biden's comments on classified summed up in two memes. 

 

 

[Biff_T]

8 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

100% a sign of dementia. It's sad, but also a bit horrifying. I guess it didn't end horribly when Regan was in office, so I doubt it will this time either.

Biden has apparently had dementia since he started his career as a politician.  Among other gems coming out of the current President's mouth, Regan never claimed to be arrested visiting Nelson Mandela.  Regan didn't lie consistently about his life experiences.  Regan didn't have a son named Hunter smoking crack, making porn and using the name Regan to make business deals.  The Bidens are scum.  

[Lord Ratner]

2 hours ago, Biff_T said:

Biden has apparently had dementia since he started his career as a politician.  Among other gems coming out of the current President's mouth, Regan never claimed to be arrested visiting Nelson Mandela.  Regan didn't lie consistently about his life experiences.  Regan didn't have a son named Hunter smoking crack, making porn and using the name Regan to make business deals.  The Bidens are scum.  

Both can be true (and are).

[filthy_liar]

On 1/19/2023 at 9:04 PM, nsplayr said:

Are you Catholic or speculating (or both?) The rules, beliefs and norms of the Church vary widely across the world and are very, very much debated and reinterpreted all the time! It’s absolutely not an unchanging set of very clear beliefs and it never, never has been since the time of Jesus and the apostles themselves.

When bishops disagree on a big issue it all becomes a bit unclear, wouldn’t you say? They’re all bishops, who is right? When bishops disagree with the Pope, it reflects the diversity of opinion in a global and universal church! That’s the most generous interpretation.

The less generous interpretation is that random activist bishops should feel free to STFU unless they are making a ruling for a resident of their particular diocese AND they’re willing to admit they’re openly defying the Pope because of how important the issue is.

Do those bishops deny communion to murders in prison? To those who don’t help the poor? To those who haven’t followed any other number of God’s commandments and Jesus’ teachings?

My opinion as a lay Catholic is that communion is a sacrament between God and the person receiving it, and whether it’s “valid” and sanctifying or not is between God and that person, not the minister who happens to be handing out the host.

By all means, preach that abortion is a sin, that is the teaching of the Church. But to deny communion over one particular sin and really not for any other is a much bigger issue actually.

The Pope is on the record as saying Biden should continue receiving communion and is a “good Catholic.” Last time I checked, he’s in charge of the Church. Case open and shut for me at least.

This post really shines the spotlight on why I am not a follower of religion, beginning with your first paragraph and continuing throughout your post.  Holy smokes, talk about anything goes, interpret whatever you want, believe whatever you want, even in a religious structure as ridiculously controlling as Catholicism.  Not a personal attack on you and I don't have anything against believers, and I have millions of other reasons for not being a believer, but man, when someone can post something like that about Catholicism...am I the only one here that can see that the idea of saying you are a follower of a faith but can believe whatever you want is kind of a farce?

Not trying to turn this into a religious thread derail, but instead of all of that up there, why don't humans just say "I don't know" when it comes to answering the question of what happens after death.

[FourFans]

1 hour ago, filthy_liar said:

am I the only one here that can see that the idea of saying you are a follower of a faith but can believe whatever you want is kind of a farce?

Nope.  When actions don't meet words, the actions tell the truth.  When that happens a lot, we call those people politicians.  National figures have been abusing religion to try and gain support since the beginning of time.

 

1 hour ago, filthy_liar said:

why don't humans just say "I don't know" when it comes to answering the question of what happens after death.

Because we've been told what the absolute truth is (we ultimately are judged by God, and go to heaven and the new earth, or hell.  If we've not established a personal relationship with Christ Jesus and accepted his salvation, we go to hell...which I'm guessing looks a lot like earth without God).  Most people just don't want to accept that when they hear it because it's uncomfortable, truly incomprehensible (he's a God who exists in what to us seems like paradox), and exposes that ultimate of truths: We are not in control.

Now,

Edited January 23, 2023 by FourFans130

[nsplayr]

🤷‍♂️ I’m not even that religious and am about 69% sure that a lot of stuff in Christianity and Catholicism and all religions is made up bullshit.

But some of it isn’t, and as a moral and ethics and community-building system there are way worse ones to choose from than being Catholic. I’m also a big fan of stoicism FWIW and I think in particular a Jesuit-flavored Catholicism + stoicism is a great foundation for living a good and moral life, although whatever works for you in achieving that end, be my guest.

Understanding religion is also pretty fundamental to understanding humans, so I do my best to learn. Catholicism happened to be the faith of my family, so I chose to do all the Catholic sacraments as an adult and I go to church now with my extended family even while not necessarily drinking the kook aid or forcing it on my kids. They can choose to believe whatever they want so long as they grow up to be good people.

But FWIW what I described before is a fairly mainstream Catholic view. I’m not sure what about my post was particularly distressing, unless you’re a tradcath who hates Pope Francis and Vatican II and Biden and etc.

My previous post was mostly an inside-baseball comment on the idea of denying Catholic communion to political leaders for their political beliefs, since that applies in particular to our current President. If you’re not Catholic or religions at all you can safely give zero Fs about the whole thing!

/religious commentary off

[FourFans]

3 hours ago, nsplayr said:

If you’re not Catholic or religions at all you can safely give zero Fs about the whole thing!

I'll disagree.  The core of the problem here is that our president claims a personal belief that, in practice he so shuns that some practitioners of that believe system refuse to include him.  Imagine a pilot you fly with that claims to be a good pilot, but is in fact entirely dangerous, and you refuse to fly with him.  

Personal preferences aside: It speaks strongly of our president's character, or lack thereof.  He plays a key role in running our country and setting policy.  What he does in private AND public flows from the same set of life rules, coherent or not.  I'm pretty sure we should all give at least a little notice to his character.

Edited January 23, 2023 by FourFans130

[nsplayr]

Lol sure, judge the man by his character, please do that. 

But the fact that a few dickhead radical bishops, against the wishes of the Pope and outside the mainstream of the church, want to make an example out of certain political leaders who support specific government policies the church consider sinful (keep in mind the leaders are not actually committing the sin themselves!), and are doing so by refusing to distribute a sacrament given as a gift from God…yea ok, that’s not the same as some pilot being like, “Hey that guy is unsafe.”

There are over 5,600 bishops in the Catholic Church and ~1.3 billion members of the church in general, I’m sure there is not a single person on earth who is liked/trusted/loved/etc. by every single other member! This ain’t a flying squadron with 25 bros who can and should all know each other in detail and mostly get along.

The core of the issue re: being refused communion by some bishops is not “Biden is amoral.” You might believe that, but that’s not what the small handful of bishops I’m talking about believe.

The religious issue in question is that a handful of bishops are indeed dickhead radicals who have misinterpreted the purpose of the sacrament and have gone against the explicit wishes of the leader of their church and want to make an example out of people they have never even met, let alone known and ministered to and shepherded toward a closer relationship with God.

It’s an internal pissing match, and if you are not Catholic nor Christian nor religious at all, you don’t need to GAF about who eats what crackers where 😅

Of all the things to hate Biden for or critique, saying he is a “bad Catholic” is the stupidest one I’ve ever heard, especially if you are not Catholic yourself.

Too old, check. Sloppy with classified, check. Said many dumb things over the last 40 years, check. Democrat, check (if that’s a negative in your book). Critique away there.

But this man has a sincere belief in God and has practiced his chosen faith well and with good intentions for his entire life AFAIK, I have a very hard time finding fault there.

Edited January 23, 2023 by nsplayr

[ClearedHot]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

Religious words...

I mostly agree with you.  My faith is very personal to me and not governed by a few radicals, but discussing here is even more futile than politics.

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

Sloppy with classified,

I'd say this is a bit more than "sloppy".  Items from his time in the senate (that can only be viewed in a SCIF), found in his homeS.  How did they get out of the SCIF?   Items from his time as VP (he is not the classification authority) found in his homeS.  Again how did they get out of the SCIF or his office.  And even though they assured us "there's no there there" and he has "no regrets", the FBI found even MORE classified today. 

Why didn't the FBI conduct the first searches?

Why were his uncleared lawyers allowed to search?

Why was he allowed to return to the potential scene of a crime?  Where they keep finding classified?

Why did they hide this for MONTHS?

One or two items is sloppy, but they have found classified at every location they have searched.  This situation has gone far beyond sloppy and clearly crossed into coverup territory.

[FourFans]

4 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Lol sure, judge the man by his character, please do that. 

Too old, check. Sloppy with classified, check. Said many dumb things over the last 40 years, check. Democrat, check (if that’s a negative in your book). Critique away there.

But this man has a sincere belief in God and has practiced his chosen faith well and with good intentions for his entire life AFAIK, I have a very hard time finding fault there.

Kinda my point.  The religion thing, without knowing any details, connects correctly with all the rest of the datapoints.  I don't think this guy has done anything with sincere belief or true, unabashed good intention for a long while.  I think he's abusing religion to try and rehab his image somewhat...and it's failing.

So, you're willing to admit all the rest of his faults, recognize his overt lying and complete lack of integrity, yet dismiss the religion datapoint on...religious grounds?...as some one who yourself admittedly doesn't believe said religion?  Interesting stance.

[filthy_liar]

19 hours ago, nsplayr said:

🤷‍♂️ I’m not even that religious and am about 69% sure that a lot of stuff in Christianity and Catholicism and all religions is made up bullshit.

But some of it isn’t, and as a moral and ethics and community-building system there are way worse ones to choose from than being Catholic. I’m also a big fan of stoicism FWIW and I think in particular a Jesuit-flavored Catholicism + stoicism is a great foundation for living a good and moral life, although whatever works for you in achieving that end, be my guest.

Understanding religion is also pretty fundamental to understanding humans, so I do my best to learn. Catholicism happened to be the faith of my family, so I chose to do all the Catholic sacraments as an adult and I go to church now with my extended family even while not necessarily drinking the kook aid or forcing it on my kids. They can choose to believe whatever they want so long as they grow up to be good people.

But FWIW what I described before is a fairly mainstream Catholic view. I’m not sure what about my post was particularly distressing, unless you’re a tradcath who hates Pope Francis and Vatican II and Biden and etc.

My previous post was mostly an inside-baseball comment on the idea of denying Catholic communion to political leaders for their political beliefs, since that applies in particular to our current President. If you’re not Catholic or religions at all you can safely give zero Fs about the whole thing!

/religious commentary off

No worries, I'm not attacking you or Biden...and none of what you typed was distressing to me.

I definitely agree with you that if a person chooses religion as a great foundation for living a good and moral life - that is a very very good thing.  

[nsplayr]

33 minutes ago, FourFans130 said:

Kinda my point.  The religion thing, without knowing any details, connects correctly with all the rest of the datapoints.  I don't think this guy has done anything with sincere belief or true, unabashed good intention for a long while.  I think he's abusing religion to try and rehab his image somewhat...and it's failing.

So, you're willing to admit all the rest of his faults, recognize his overt lying and complete lack of integrity, yet dismiss the religion datapoint on...religious grounds?...as some one who yourself admittedly doesn't believe said religion?  Interesting stance.

Disagree on your summary of my views.

Catholic stuff aside, I like Joe Biden as a person and I like a lot of the policies he’s pushed through as President the last two years. He’s been more successful than I would have thought both electorally and legislatively.

He has also made mistakes and said a lot of dumb stuff over the years, and my biggest critique is that he’s too old to be president now, let alone run for another term. Flame away if it makes you feel better, but that’s not some radical view. He’s a mainstream Dem and so am I and he’s passed a fair amount of bills that are good from the perspective of mainstream Dems.

Back on religion, I find his faith to be sincere and genuine and an unmitigated positive part of his personal qualities, even if I’m not that religious myself. I respect people who are sincerely religious although I’m also equally fine supporting people who are not (e.g. I don’t believe Obama was sincerely that religious and I strongly supported him).

I am just baffled that, among all other options, a couple of y’all think Biden’s religion is a valid attack line, either because you think he’s faking it somehow, is amoral in general and therefore also lying about his faith, or because of a couple of dickhead bishops want to stop him from eating a cracker. I suspect it’s door #2 for you fourfans? (Sic) “Biden is a lying bad man all around and therefore all this Catholic stuff is fake and bad too.”  
Close enough?

IMHO it would be very strange to be a public, lifelong believer and regular church attendant, all as a setup to “rehab your image.” It would be a really long bit to commit to, although not without precedent!

Edited January 24, 2023 by nsplayr

[nsplayr]

3 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I mostly agree with you.  My faith is very personal to me and not governed by a few radicals, but discussing here is even more futile than politics.

Amen.

[ViperMan]

Fact: Being "Pro-Choice" makes you not a Catholic.

This is a simple matter of definitions.

[FourFans]

2 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Disagree on your summary of my views.

Catholic stuff aside, I like Joe Biden as a person and I like a lot of the policies he’s pushed through as President the last two years. He’s been more successful than I would have thought both electorally and legislatively.

He has also made mistakes and said a lot of dumb stuff over the years, and my biggest critique is that he’s too old to be president now, let alone run for another term. Flame away if it makes you feel better, but that’s not some radical view. He’s a mainstream Dem and so am I and he’s passed a fair amount of bills that are good from the perspective of mainstream Dems.

Back on religion, I find his faith to be sincere and genuine and an unmitigated positive part of his personal qualities, even if I’m not that religious myself. I respect people who are sincerely religious although I’m also equally fine supporting people who are not (e.g. I don’t believe Obama was sincerely that religious and I strongly supported him).

I am just baffled that, among all other options, a couple of y’all think Biden’s religion is a valid attack line, either because you think he’s faking it somehow, is amoral in general and therefore also lying about his faith, or because of a couple of dickhead bishops want to stop him from eating a cracker. I suspect it’s door #2 for you fourfans? (Sic) “Biden is a lying bad man all around and therefore all this Catholic stuff is fake and bad too.”  
Close enough?

IMHO it would be very strange to be a public, lifelong believer and regular church attendant, all as a setup to “rehab your image.” It would be a really long bit to commit to, although not without precedent!

Let me back it down a bit.  On religion, I'm not attacking, simply pointing out that from my point of view he seems incoherent in his views and actions.  That's across the board, and includes what I can tell of his religious beliefs, which are deeply personal.  Fini on that topic.

As to the politics, so I understand you clearly.  You like what he's done with the economy, the border, energy, international relations, pandemic mandates, crime, LGTBQ and social equity meltdown, gun laws, and his own personal conduct (rolling together all the classified documents, his son's illegal affairs, etc).  You're saying this is the man you wanted and you're happy with the job he's doing?  Am I hearing that correctly?

Edited January 24, 2023 by FourFans130

[FLEA]

48 minutes ago, FourFans130 said:

Let me back it down a bit.  On religion, I'm not attacking, simply pointing out that from my point of view he seems incoherent in his views and actions.  That's across the board, and includes what I can tell of his religious beliefs, which are deeply personal.  Fini on that topic.

As to the politics, so I understand you clearly.  You like what he's done with the economy, the border, energy, international relations, pandemic mandates, crime, LGTBQ and social equity meltdown, gun laws, and his own personal conduct (rolling together all the classified documents, his son's illegal affairs, etc).  You're saying this is the man you wanted and you're happy with the job he's doing?  Am I hearing that correctly?

Don't forget leaving over 1000 American citizens in a failed terrorist state at their own peril. 

[dream big]

2 hours ago, FLEA said:

Don't forget leaving over 1000 American citizens in a failed terrorist state at their own peril. 

C’mon man that’s Trump’s fault!! Gas prices are going down, and they only went up because of Putin. We also solved inflation under Biden! Back to eating Ice Cream and finding a new lady to sniff.