The Next President is...

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, busdriver said:

But the double standard is obvious.

Even if you believe this is true WRT Dems vs GOP, which I don’t agree but can understand why people feel this way…does that change how we should handle Trump’s case right now?

Should the refs do make-up calls or do we just say oh well, every Congressman and higher are just exempt from these laws or what?

Im genuinely asking. If you think trump did nothing wrong, ok.

But if you think he seems guilty of these charges and they are for similar actions to what Hillary or anyone else on the left has done in the past…how do you handle his case? We can’t change the past, but we can decide the future.

Magic wand, you’re the judge, what do you do?

Edited June 12, 2023 by nsplayr

[Sim]

 

Yeah. Totally not double standards. 

[Lawman]

Even if you believe this is true WRT Dems vs GOP, which I don’t agree but can understand why people feel this way…does that change how we should handle Trump’s case right now?
Should the refs do make-up calls or do we just say oh well, every Congressman and higher are just exempt from these laws or what?
Im genuinely asking. If you think trump did nothing wrong, ok.
But if you think he seems guilty of these charges and they are for similar actions to what Hillary or anyone else on the left has done in the past…how do you handle his case? We can’t change the past, but we can decide the future.
Magic wand, you’re the judge, what do you do?

The time that Hillary would have most appropriately been charged having finished the investigation was… that’s right… in the middle of her being the front runner for the Democratic Party in the 16 election.


Somehow that wasn’t allowed to happen. So no suddenly deciding to act appropriately now while simultaneously claiming this has nothing to do with partisan manipulation of the justice department just isn’t going to work here.

Your in a spectrum of political demographic that keep screaming about Trump apologists or whatever label, but at the end of the day they are right. An unusual action is being applied to their preferred candidate. Notice I said unusual, not unethical or illegal or whatever, because the precedence for protection and ignoring crimes has already been set for the political class.

Trump isn’t being charged because he did something uniquely wrong. He is being charged because he so brazenly and openly made the public aware of the shady crap we ignored for decades from our political caste. They are doing their best to destroy him not because they didn’t do the same, but because they are afraid of the attention to their normal actions that is now impossible to ignore.


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[nsplayr]

4 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Somehow that wasn’t allowed to happen. So no suddenly deciding to act appropriately now while simultaneously claiming this has nothing to do with partisan manipulation of the justice department just isn’t going to work here.

Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You do believe that Hillary should have been charged, but specifically because she wasn’t, you now don’t think Trump should be charged now either. Is this correct?

Is that what you teach your kids? Two wrongs make a right?

[nsplayr]

Let me be clear, even though I don’t agree in full on the premise here.

Many people on the right I think believe that:

Hillary, the official Dem nominee for President at the time, mishandled classified information in a way worthy of felony charges. Yet for various reasons, she was let off the hook. We buggered that one! So mad!!

AND

Trump, the leading person for the GOP nomination today, also mishandled classified information in a way that in fact has brought felony charges.

Despite this (in your mind) very similar situation, you’re now determined to exactly repeat the mistakes of the past, for what, political fairness? Equality?

Is that correct?

Edited June 12, 2023 by nsplayr

[busdriver]

22 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Even if you believe this is true WRT Dems vs GOP, which I don’t agree but can understand why people feel this way…does that change how we should handle Trump’s case right now?

Not Dems/GOP.  This is really a Trump thing.  Partly of his own doing I will grant.

Like I said, if there were any sort of actual fairness in the world, all of them would be held to the same standard as the naïve and stupid Navy kid that took pictures of a submarine for keepsakes.

But that isn't reality.  In the real world precedent matters, without it people lose trust.  A big chunk of the country thinks the FBI/DOJ is Hoover level corrupt.  Trump is playing against that. 

I honestly vacillate back and forth on how much forethought I'm willing to assume he has in all this.

 

[Lawman]

Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You do believe that Hillary should have been charged, but specifically because she wasn’t, you now don’t think Trump should be charged now either. Is this correct?
Is that what you teach your kids? Two wrongs make a right?

No you don’t get to pretend it’s no big deal we didn’t charge Hillary and just call it my bad here…

If you are the executive branch right now you are making the claim the justice department and the FBI are beyond the partisanship, yet your criminally offending son is somehow never facing any charges when just off simple handgun possession he has committed a felony. Your party’s previous front runner was excused. But now you just have to follow the letter of the law and charge your single biggest political rival with a felony only months after we found classified documents in your F’ing garage. They hid behind prosecutorial discretion and invented ideas of intent.


Sorry, but this isn’t a “just because the let Hillary” for you. I’d happily watch Trump go to jail, provided the same government officials currently screaming about what he did were being charged right along side him. Until that comes, yeah I’d rather we not go jailing political rivals for crimes we know the other side committed. At least it would let the democratic process play out. Right now everything the screamers like Jim Jordan are saying about the weaponization of the justice department is actively happening. But hey we ignored it when the IRS was doing it, so why not let this game go on as well.


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[nsplayr]

19 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Sorry, but this isn’t a “just because the let Hillary” for you. I’d happily watch Trump go to jail, provided the same government officials currently screaming about what he did were being charged right along side him. Until that comes, yeah I’d rather we not go jailing political rivals for crimes we know the other side committed. At least it would let the democratic process play out.

So no political leaders or declared candidates should be charged with crimes so we can “let the democratic process play out?”

What alternative process do you recommend for charging people you think are currently unjustly going on with life?

Was there not ample time and opportunity for Trump’s DOJ to charge Hillary if the case was there, even if just for pure political payback? Surely there was. Why did Sessions, Barr or others fail to do that?

Can a prosecutor not bring charges against private citizen Hunter Biden if they wanted to? That is fine by me if there is a case a prosecutor thinks they can win.

Charging sitting President Biden is highly unlikely because the legal remedy for crimes committed by the President is impeachment by the House and trial by the Senate, a process which we just so happens to have recently done! If the GOP House wants to impeach Biden tomorrow and send that trial to the Senate, ok, bring up the charges and do it.

My view is that any political leader who committed crimes so serious that a prosecutor decided to seek charges and a grand jury actually brought the charges, that’s good, we should have them face the legal system. Failing to do this is just as bad a system as nakedly political charges for everyone the minute they leave office or the political winds shift.

I guess I’m most troubled by you saying, “Until that comes, yeah I’d rather we not go jailing political rivals for crimes we know the other side committed.”

I don’t agree. Lots of flaws and assumptions there, but also that’s just not how our legal system works.

The second best time to do the right thing is right now.

Edited June 12, 2023 by nsplayr

[nsplayr]

18 minutes ago, Lawman said:

No you don’t get to pretend it’s no big deal we didn’t charge Hillary and just call it my bad here…

If you think Hillary should have been charged and it was a grave injustice for her to slip away relatively unscathed at least legally, you should also be an enthusiastic proponent of Trump facing real justice for very similar, and I would argue more serious, alleged crimes. Why would you not be other than just naked partisanship or a false belief in “makeup calls” where two wrongs somehow make a right?

Edited June 12, 2023 by nsplayr

[Lawman]

So no political leaders or declared candidates should be charged with crimes so we can “let the democratic process play out?”
What alternative process do you recommend for charging people you think are currently unjustly going on with life?
Was there not ample time and opportunity for Trump’s DOJ to charge Hillary if the case was there, even if just for pure political payback? Surely there was. Why did Sessions, Barr or others fail to do that?
Can a prosecutor not bring charges against private citizen Hunter Biden if they wanted to? That is fine by me if there is a case a prosecutor things they can win.
Charging sitting President Biden is highly unlikely because the legal remedy for crimes committed by the President is impeachment by the House and trial by the Senate, a process which we just so happens to have recently done! If the GOP House wants to impeach Biden tomorrow and send that trial to the Senate, ok, bring up the charges and do it.
My view is that any political leader who committed crimes so serious that a prosecutor decided to seek charges and a grand jury actually brought the charges, that’s good, we should have them face the legal system. Failing to do this is just as bad a system as nakedly political charges for everyone the minute they leave office or the political winds shift.
I guess I’m most troubled by you saying, “Until that comes, yeah I’d rather we not go jailing political rivals for crimes we know the other side committed.”
I don’t agree. Lots of flaws and assumptions there, but also that’s just not how our legal system works.
The second best time to do the right thing is right now.

You are completely clueless or just ignorantly blind if you think some local or state level prosecutor can just go ahead and charge the sitting president’s son. Like it’s not even hard, the guy bought and then threw a gun in a dumpster having already had a felony. He would never survive a form 4733, which lying on is a felony. So what happens now? So tell us why other than the fact you would be charging a presidents son would that crime be ignored. It’s not like gun violence and violation of firearms laws isn’t a huge concern of your party.


Yes it’s severely concerning that we have for a decade now excused what we all knew to be true, that Hillary was guilty of at the very least crimes which would prohibit her participation in the political class of our country, yet somehow that’s just excuses or in some cases denied. But oh, charging Trump (when he’s the political candidate the party in power is most afraid of) is somehow our solution to decades of bad faith actions and political protection. Proclaim from the chief executive, “From this day forward we will do what we should have for the last several decades…..” No if you’re going to win, and more importantly beat Trump’s populist movement, you need to do it on the up and up. This sideways attempt at just denying him the ability to participate in the political process is being rightly called out for what it is, a shady attempt to sideways secure victory by using the weight of the executive office.


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[nsplayr]

28 minutes ago, Lawman said:

No if you’re going to win, and more importantly beat Trump’s populist movement, you need to do it on the up and up.

My party and the country at large already did this once TYVM 😎 It’s on Republicans to do what you’ve described above right now, in the primary. It ain’t going great so far, NGL!

If Trump is the 2024 GOP nominee I’ll do everything I can to help him repeat the L he took in 2020, ideally even bigger.

My BL legal theory here is very simple: if you do crimes and there is a clear case a prosecutor thinks they can win based on the evidence, they should bring the case and you should be charged. If a judge/jury finds you guilty, you should be punished. Full stop. No one is above the law. The only exception is the few offices where the constitution prescribes impeachment instead.

If our system has failed at sometime in the past to achieve that ideal, which it absolutely has, we should work hard to fix it going forward. Especially hard to not repeat the exact same mistakes time and time again. Elites bypassing the justice system “normal” people would face is one such repeated mistake I am fully on board with aggressively correcting back to ideal on. We can do this right now! And I think the Trump federal indictment is a good example of holding elites accountable for pretty obvious crimes…hard to get more elite than him and he’s on tape saying he did what the charges alledge.

I teach this as a moral code to my kids and I think it’s pretty much 100% in line with the values our country was founded upon. Golden rule, don’t dream small, do your best, if you make mistakes do better next time, and don’t make the same mistakes over and over and over again.

Other slipperier legal theories re: Hillary, Trump, etc. just don’t hold a lot of weight to me, at least as they’ve been explained here.

Edited June 12, 2023 by nsplayr

[CaptainMorgan]

So let’s fix it by charging Hunter Biden. Oh wait, that won’t happen because his ice cream addled daddy is President.


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[Lawman]

My party and the country at large already did this once TYVM It’s on Republicans to do what you’ve described above right now, in the primary. It ain’t going great so far, NGL!
If Trump is the 2024 GOP nominee I’ll do everything I can to help him repeat the L he took in 2020, ideally even bigger.
My BL legal theory here is very simple: if you do crimes and there is a clear case a prosecutor thinks they can win based on the evidence, they should bring the case and you should be charged. If a judge/jury finds you guilty, you should be punished. Full stop. No one is above the law. The only exception is the few offices where the constitution prescribes impeachment instead.
If our system has failed at sometime in the past to achieve that ideal, which it absolutely has, we should work hard to fix it going forward. Especially hard to not repeat the exact same mistakes time and time again. Elites bypassing the justice system “normal” people would face is one such repeated mistake I am fully on board with aggressively correcting back to ideal on. We can do this right now! And I think the Trump federal indictment is a good example of holding elites accountable for pretty obvious crimes…hard to get more elite than him and he’s on tape saying he did what the charges alledge.
I teach this as a moral code to my kids and I think it’s pretty much 100% in line with the values our country was founded upon. Golden rule, don’t dream small, do your best, if you make mistakes do better next time, and don’t make the same mistakes over and over and over again.
Other slipperier legal theories re: Hillary, Trump, etc. just don’t hold a lot of weight to me, at least as they’ve been explained here.

Well since it will start and stop with Trump, your proclamation this is any sort of solution to political protection is pretty hollow. The FBI was caught investigating Hunter’s 4733 violation 5 years ago. The IRS has been found doing the same. Weird how it takes so math years to figure out saying no on a yes no question about drugs was or wasn’t a lie

The fact you and others repeatedly find a way to deny Hillary or Hunter or any number of other illegal acts don’t meet the criteria for prosecution is pretty well proof of that.

I didn’t vote for Trump either of the times he ran, but the way you and others are enthusiastic in applauding this blatant attempt to deny him even the process of participating is pretty bold. And again, when Trumps populist movement holds to the opinion about elitist protection schemes and how the Democratic Party protects it’s self from legal prosecution it’s pretty bold of you and others to go applauding it and telling all the rest of us the charges against him are somehow unique and we are the ones that don’t understand. To the laymen you look like you’re cheerleading for the exact partisan protection and political bias you claim to be stamping out.


I’ll remind you, the same week this indictment was announced, the FBI director was almost held in contempt of Congress for refusing to even answer questions about the investigation into the presidents son…. Yeah that’s some transparency.


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[herkbum]

You know, we were promised by this president that he would have the most transparent presidency ever.


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[nsplayr]

If a prosecutor believes they have a case against Hunter Biden, they should go for it! Seriously! I have never understood the idea that those of us in the left love Hunter Biden and are somehow seeking to protect him 🤷‍♂️ IDGAF about that guy, he seems like a dirtbag, and I would never ever vote for him to hold public office.

As far as Trump “not being allowed to participate” lolol ok. He ran for President twice already and WAS President for 4 years despite many, many scandals & criminal/legal allegations that would have sunk any “normal” person 10x over.

Don’t do crimes if you want to be President, that doesn’t seem like too much to ask. The fact that he is in such a high-profile position and Jack Smith and the FL grand jury decided to charge him anyways is telling.

I guarantee if he had cooperated and given back the documents (like Pence and Biden), he would have gotten that much-derided elite pass too, and people on the left would be all mad about how he slipped his way past accountability once again.

[BashiChuni]

50 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

 🤷‍♂️ IDGAF about that guy, he seems like a dirtbag, and I would never ever vote for him to hold public office.

 

you're a very ignorant person

hunter is attached at the hip to "the big guy"

a drug addict paying 50,000 a month in rent tells me everything i need to know.

the biden crime syndicate are dirtbags and you voted for it. that makes you ignorant.

 

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

If a prosecutor believes they have a case against Hunter Biden, they should go for it! Seriously! I have never understood the idea that those of us in the left love Hunter Biden and are somehow seeking to protect him 🤷‍♂️ IDGAF about that guy, he seems like a dirtbag, and I would never ever vote for him to hold public office.

As far as Trump “not being allowed to participate” lolol ok. He ran for President twice already and WAS President for 4 years despite many, many scandals & criminal/legal allegations that would have sunk any “normal” person 10x over.

Don’t do crimes if you want to be President, that doesn’t seem like too much to ask. The fact that he is in such a high-profile position and Jack Smith and the FL grand jury decided to charge him anyways is telling.

I guarantee if he had cooperated and given back the documents (like Pence and Biden), he would have gotten that much-derided elite pass too, and people on the left would be all mad about how he slipped his way past accountability once again.

10% for the big guy.

[slc]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

I guarantee if he had cooperated and given back the documents (like Pence and Biden), he would have gotten that much-derided elite pass too,

Yep, I totally believe this too.....good lord

[ClearedHot]

39 minutes ago, pawnman said:

10% for the big guy.

This is what they hand waiver repeatedly...nothing to see here in their Liberal retain power lust.  Most of the reasonable folks on this forum have repeatedly said Trump is a douche and we want him to go away.  The other side can't manifest the intellectual honesty to look at everything that has happened and acknowledge there is at least something worth investigating.  Biden is a mentally defunct criminal, but they will happily vote for him again...IMHO just as bad as the base that still supports Trump.

[tac airlifter]

2 hours ago, nsplayr said:

 I guarantee if he had cooperated and given back the documents (like Pence and Biden)....

He says he did.  You're just taking FBI leaks as fact, and thereby assuming you know the facts.  
 

I don't know the facts here, but past several years of context indicates a totally corrupt FBI run by partisans who use "rule of law" as crocodile tears when they NEVER hold their own accountable.  

[Sim]

I'm sure DOJ will get right on that....right? 

[skybert]

Nothing is going to happen.

[Pooter]

Jesus Christ, so much "but her emails" copium in this thread right now. Not a lot of solutions. Here's a wild idea, although it makes too much sense for republicans to actually try it: 

Let trump go down in flames. Just let him go.  

If you think this is a big unfair liberal witch hunt or at the very least a terrible double standard, thats the fastest way to fix it. Take this opportunity to divorce yourself from the un-electable clown and get a frontrunner who can actually win.  Then when you win in 2024, you can indict Hillary and Hunter and Biden and Kamala and Dylan Mulvaney and Whoopie Goldberg and whoever else you want. 
 

This is a massive F-big opportunity for republicans, but they're so blinded by "ITS NOT FAIR" they won't even be able to capitalize. The fastest way to right past wrongs is to get power back and the fastest way to get power back is to dump the criminal lunatic who alienated more people than have ever voted in history into choosing the senile houseplant. 
 

We've been over this in this thread before. Why is the mainstream media running near-constant hit pieces on Desantis even though he trails trump in every poll?  Why is trump exclusively targeting Desantis?

Say it with me all together now:

Because. He's. The. Candidate. They're. Actually. Worried. About. 

[Sim]

LOL. A leftist telling me not to vote Trump. (who is winning ALL of the polls.) Sure thing, boo. 🤣

 

Here's a good discussion by a milk-toast since Don Bongino is too much for some. 

 

 

[busdriver]

15 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Because. He's. The. Candidate. They're. Actually. Worried. About. 

This is correct. 

 

Also: After reading through the actual indictment, Trump is very stupid.