The Next President is...

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, FourFans130 said:

Do any of them actually make a difference?

Yea actually they do, ask your security officer. Intent matters, cooperation or lack-thereof with an investigation matters, and deception matters. Not that you wouldn't get in trouble no matter what, but your intent, cooperation and any deception do matter a great deal in terms of how much trouble you'd find yourself in.

I have seen a dude who accidentally had a SCI document in his bag and had to deal with it. It was discovered by him and he reported it promptly, taking that doc out of an approved storage location was completely unintentional, there were mitigating circumstances, and he never lied about any aspect of the situation and fully cooperated with the security folks investigating it. AFAIK he continued flying and serving relatively unimpaired until I PCS'd and lost track of him.

Obviously the scope is different for high level officials, and there does seem to be a systematic problem that's plagued quite a few folks of all stripes, but again, the things I highlighted do, in fact, matter!

Edited January 12, 2023 by nsplayr

[Prozac]

33 minutes ago, FourFans130 said:Do any of them actually make a difference?  ANY classified material outside a secured environment, not to mention SCI, should equal severe consequences.  One standard.  The end.

Seriously.  Imagine realizing you had TS/SCI/SAP info in your closet at home.  What would get you first, the police or the heart attack?  

Yep.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong: bad. Should be investigated.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong & refusing the subpoena to give it back: objectively worse. Perpetrator should probably go to jail.
 

This isn’t that hard. 

[FourFans]

10 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Yea actually they do, ask your security officer. Intent matters, cooperation or lack-thereof with an investigation matters, and deception matters. Not that you wouldn't get in trouble no matter what, but your intent, cooperation and any deception do matter a great deal in terms of how much trouble you'd find yourself in.

I have seen a dude who accidentally had a SCI document in his bag and had to deal with it. It was discovered by him and he reported it promptly, taking that doc out of an approved storage location was completely unintentional, there were mitigating circumstances, and he never lied about any aspect of the situation and fully cooperated with the security folks investigating it. AFAIK he continued flying and serving relatively unimpaired until I PCS'd and lost track of him.

Obviously the scope is different for high level officials, and there does seem to be a systematic problem that's plagued quite a few folks of all stripes, but again, the things I highlighted do, in fact, matter!

 

10 hours ago, Prozac said:

Yep.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong: bad. Should be investigated.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong & refusing the subpoena to give it back: objectively worse. Perpetrator should probably go to jail.
 

This isn’t that hard. 

So, if we're talking about details and context: if the person involved is, in fact, the top classification authority (even if he has only a vague idea about the rules of classification), and has decided that letters from other heads of state are now unclassified, those documents then become unclassified, correct?

Removing political bias in the analysis: The Trump case is most likely that the sitting president decided to declassify certain documents that he wanted as momentos and then got cockly and arrogant about "his" momentos (oh, the ego on that moron) that he most likely declassified with a verbal order only (which is technically legal, though very poor procedure), while the Biden case is most likely that the non-sitting ex-vice president...or more likely his staff...unwittingly moved and stored classified documents inappropriately.  

Like it or not, the Trump case was, at least in theory, possibly legal.  The Biden case was most definitely not.

Both, in my book, were violations of proper processes (verbal declassification is only supposed to be used as an expedient, and should be followed by the written process) and should be investigated as such, intent or not.

I see no malice in either case.  Lets face it, neither of those old guys was salivating over nuclear secrets or special intel.  It was ignorance and arrogance in both cases. 

If the legal process is completely fair, should there not be an FBI search of Biden's house?  Especially considering that his son may have had direct access to said SAP documents?

But instead of logic and reason, let's go ahead and analyze things with our Red or Blue glasses on instead, because that makes things so much better...

Edited January 12, 2023 by FourFans130

[HeloDude]

9 hours ago, Prozac said:

Yep.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong: bad. Should be investigated.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong & refusing the subpoena to give it back: objectively worse. Perpetrator should probably go to jail.
 

This isn’t that hard. 

So should anything negative happen to Biden?  

[Biff_T]

[ClearedHot]

11 hours ago, Prozac said:

Yep.

 

Classified where it doesn’t belong: bad. Should be investigated.
 

Classified where it doesn’t belong & refusing the subpoena to give it back: objectively worse. Perpetrator should probably go to jail.
 

This isn’t that hard. 

While I think what Trump did was wrong, when it comes to the law I think there is certainly some nuance that has to be worked through in the courts.  POTUS is the declassification authority and while I disagree with the "he can declassify just by thinking about it" argument, the process is not codified in law.  I don't buy into the spin about the subpoena, again a lot of nuance given Presidential records, not defending his actions just saying the law is not clear.  Also, he did exactly what they requested with regard to securing the material at Mara Lago.

With regard to the law, Biden is in real jeopardy if the AG follow the law (highly doubtful).  Trump as POTUS had legal authority to have those documents while in office, Biden as VP did NOT!

11 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Yea actually they do, ask your security officer. Intent matters, cooperation or lack-thereof with an investigation matters, and deception matters. Not that you wouldn't get in trouble no matter what, but your intent, cooperation and any deception do matter a great deal in terms of how much trouble you'd find yourself in.

I have seen a dude who accidentally had a SCI document in his bag and had to deal with it. It was discovered by him and he reported it promptly, taking that doc out of an approved storage location was completely unintentional, there were mitigating circumstances, and he never lied about any aspect of the situation and fully cooperated with the security folks investigating it. AFAIK he continued flying and serving relatively unimpaired until I PCS'd and lost track of him.

Obviously the scope is different for high level officials, and there does seem to be a systematic problem that's plagued quite a few folks of all stripes, but again, the things I highlighted do, in fact, matter!

Intent and context DOES matter.  Lets peel that back a bit since you brought it up.

1.  As VP he did not have a right to that material, you think it was a simple mistake VERY classified materiel has been found in two locations?  It seems like you are willing to employ the Joy Behar standard "Joe is not a crook so we should give him the benefit of the doubt"....Ahhh NO!  He has other facilities and homes, out of an abundance of caution, shouldn't those sites be searched? 

2.  The context of the material is also VERY important and feed to a bigger issue that has been suppressed by the left for two years.  Initial reports indicate the material related to China/Russia/Ukraine from the time period when Hunter was being paid buckets of cash to work for Burisma.  At what point to you acknowledge there is enough smoke we might want to look for a fire.

3.  Your example about the dude having SCI in a bag is interesting, I too have seen this scenario.  The CONTEXT of the Biden situation is VERY concerning.  Trump's material was stored at a facility protected by the Secret Service.  Biden's material was in a closet at the Penn Center, a facility paid for by the Chinese government.  They won't open the books on that organization (more smoke), and it is entirely possible Chinese foreign nationals had access to that facility.

4.  Are you not concerned about the timing of this story.  This was discovered BEFORE the Mid-terms.  The AG and others kept it quiet until this week, with reports indicating they were going to continue to keep it quiet but someone in the press was tipped off about the cover up.  Absolutely criminal to keep this from the American people before an election.

5.  When hanging your hat on the intent argument you again bring Hillary back into the spotlight.  33,000 emails purposely destroyed.  TS/SCI SAP PURPOSELY moved to an unclassified server where it was likely scooped up by the Chinese AND Russians, no accountability.  As usual, the left has no problems with a double standard.

***UPDATE***

The second batch of classified was found next to his Corvette in his garage!  His retort, "it was a locked garage". UFB!

[gearhog]

4 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

***UPDATE***

The second batch of classified was found next to his Corvette in his garage!  His retort, "it was a locked garage". UFB!

Hilarious that he publicly incriminates himself the very next day after they were allegedly found, during a press conference, on live TV,  while the investigation is open. Absolutely nutballs. Would love to have seen the White House legal staff's reaction as he answered Doocy.

Honest question: who initiated these searches two years into his presidency and why? Is he being hung out to dry?

 

[uhhello]

5 minutes ago, torqued said:

Hilarious that he publicly incriminates himself the very next day after they were allegedly found, during a press conference, on live TV,  while the investigation is open. Absolutely nutballs. Would love to have seen the White House legal staff's reaction as he answered Doocy.

Honest question: who initiated these searches two years into his presidency and why? Is he being hung out to dry?

 

Thats what I'm wondering.  He wants to run and "they" don't want him to.  Do they tear him down this way though?  Seems there are easier less messy for everyone ways.  

[arg]

 "in a locked garage next to a Corvette"  will be a multiple choice answer in an upcoming Insider Threat Awareness training.

[filthy_liar]

4 hours ago, torqued said:

Honest question: who initiated these searches two years into his presidency and why? Is he being hung out to dry?

He is, but not for now.  I think he will be eventually, the DNC has to get rid of him and they seem to have their shit together much better than the RNC at current. The classified files shit is the beginning of putting Biden out to pasture.  ABC attacked the whitehouse spokesperson today.  That is new.  They are putting him down gently.

And here's what's not new:  the RNC continues to let Trump storm all over the Republican party.  If the RNC can't put that asswipe away, we're going to be in for yet another 4 years of not Biden, but a democrat president.

[herkbum]

He is, but not for now.  I think he will be eventually, the DNC has to get rid of him and they seem to have their shit together much better than the RNC at current. The classified files shit is the beginning of putting Biden out to pasture.  ABC attacked the whitehouse spokesperson today.  That is new.  They are putting him down gently.
And here's what's not new:  the RNC continues to let Trump storm all over the Republican party.  If the RNC can't put that asswipe away, we're going to be in for yet another 4 years of not Biden, but a democrat president.

Have you seen the shit Ronna has been pulling at the RNC? If it’s true, she needs to be replaced yesterday. Sounds like she is only in it for herself enrichment and luxury. That swamp monster needs to be replaced if they want to start making a difference.


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[GrndPndr]

15 hours ago, torqued said:

<snip>Is he being hung out to dry?

 

Seems like he is already pretty desiccated.

[FourFans]

43 minutes ago, GrndPndr said:

Seems like he is already pretty desiccated.

You might be thinking about Hillary

[Lawman]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/01/12/dem_rep_hank_johnson_suggests_classified_documents_were_planted_at_bidens_home_and_office.html

So it’s not Ok when Trump suggests this… but hey why not. I thought Democrats were above such conspiracy theories… weird how you can only find this report in very slanted or at best neutral media. WAPO and other “respected media” are mum on it.


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[uhhello]

25 minutes ago, Lawman said:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/01/12/dem_rep_hank_johnson_suggests_classified_documents_were_planted_at_bidens_home_and_office.html

So it’s not Ok when Trump suggests this… but hey why not. I thought Democrats were above such conspiracy theories… weird how you can only find this report in very slanted or at best neutral media. WAPO and other “respected media” are mum on it.


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Thats the guy who prevented Guam from tipping over right?

[SurelySerious]

Thats the guy who prevented Guam from tipping over right?

Also compared Jewish people in Israel to termites. Always good for a one-liner.

[herkbum]

Also compared Jewish people in Israel to termites. Always good for a one-liner.

And yet, he continues to get elected.


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[ClearedHot]

They just found MORE classified documents at Biden's house. 

1.  Why was he allowed to return to the scene of a potential crime?

2.  Why are they allowing his lawyers to search for documents instead of the FBI?

[brabus]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

They just found MORE classified documents at Biden's house. 

1.  Why was he allowed to return to the scene of a potential crime?

2.  Why are they allowing his lawyers to search for documents instead of the FBI?

The answer is because he’s a Democrat/not Trump. 

[SocialD]

Who among us doesn't have some TS/SCI laying around in their zipped up leg pocket?  I mean, it's zipped up, which practically makes it's a SCIF.  

Edited January 14, 2023 by SocialD

[SurelySerious]

Who among us doesn't have some TS/SCI laying around in their zipped up leg pocket?  I mean, it's zipped up, which practically makes it's a SCIF.  

Is going through the wash the same as shredding? Asking for a friend.

[Lawman]

Who among us doesn't have some TS/SCI laying around in their zipped up leg pocket?  I mean, it's zipped up, which practically makes it's a SCIF.  

I’ve got soldiers pulling 24 hour guard of an SKL because we don’t have approved safes on hand while we run secure comms for an exercise.


Jokes on them, we could have just kept that stuff in my garage.


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[ItnStln]

48 minutes ago, brabus said:

The answer is because he’s a Democrat/not Trump. 

[Biff_T]

53 minutes ago, SocialD said:

Who among us doesn't have some TS/SCI laying around in their zipped up leg pocket?  I mean, it's zipped up, which practically makes it's a SCIF.  

I use it to wrap Christmas presents.  

[TreeA10]

5 hours ago, SocialD said:

Who among us doesn't have some TS/SCI laying around in their zipped up leg pocket?  I mean, it's zipped up, which practically makes it's a SCIF.  

I've got a lock on my garage door it's all good.