The Next President is...

[FourFans]

49 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

So here is the actual full video (~28 minutes) of Biden’s remarks at the Women’s Business Summit at the White House.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?526980-1/president-biden-calls-congress-pass-assault-weapons-ban-nashville-school-shooting

10:14-12:24 includes his opening comments about the shooting in Nashville. Feel free to judge him by those comments; I think they were very appropriate. Of literally all the things in the entire world Joe Biden can speak about well and compassionately, it would be having a child die cruelty too soon.

Before 10:14 he was introduced and warmed up the visiting crowd at the White House, which included kids, and after 12:24, he have his actual remarks about women and their businesses. Even the joking comment about Jenni’s Ice Cream  highlighted in bad faith above makes sense given that it’s not only a personal fav of his and an ongoing meme about him, but it’s also an ice cream business started by a woman that’s now wildly successful.

So given full context instead of the dickhead edit you see above, I have basically zero critiques.

You're seriously still standing behind this guy?

[nsplayr]

8 minutes ago, FourFans said:

You're seriously still standing behind this guy?

Joe Biden is the parent of a service member who died, and also lost his daughter and first wife in a horrible car accident. I’m sure views on him are not 100% positive when polling gold star families, but I give him high marks on the grief counseling role that every POTUS inevitably has to do.

I’m also a mainstream Democrat and support his mainstream Dem-priority policy accomplishments.

If you’re a conservative I imagine you don’t, but it shouldn’t be hard to understand why a Democrat likely would.

Edited March 28, 2023 by nsplayr

[uhhello]

7 minutes ago, FourFans said:

You're seriously still standing behind this guy?

Don't manipulate video/transcripts to suit your narrative.  He has enough out there where you can truly see he is not fit to be leading.  It's simple.  

[uhhello]

1 minute ago, nsplayr said:

Joe Biden is the parent of a service member who died, and also lost his daughter and first wife in a horrible car accident. I’m sure views on him are not 100% positive when polling gold star families, but I give him high marks on the grief counseling role that every POTUS inevitably has to do.

I’m also a mainstream Democrat and support his mainstream Dem-priority policy accomplishments.

If you’re a conservative I imagine you don’t, but it shouldn’t be hard to understand why a Democrat likely would.

You think he is fit to serve currently?  How about in another year and a half?  I'm pretty middle of the road on most stuff, couldn't vote for Trump in the last go around but if it was down to Trump/Biden in 24......I think I represent a giant chunk of the voting bloc as well.  

[nsplayr]

Overall Biden is older than is ideal and I’d rather have someone 15-30 years younger, but that’s neither here nor there. I personally wanted a 1-term handoff to the VP, but Harris sucks big time and so given that as the most possible option, I’d rather Joe just try to stick it out…shit I’d be a fan of dropping Harris somehow and picking a new VP for a second term and then strongly consider resigning if his health fails. I also support a max age limit for holding political office just like there are min ages, and it probably should be 75. Both Trump and Biden are too old frankly.

My bet is the GOP will nominate Trump again, who is more or less the same age as Biden and also shows clear evidence of losing a step compared to his former self. This is rather than someone like DeSantis or Haley or even Pence who are younger and appropriately experienced. Y’all are gonna have a full-up primary with no sitting incumbent and I am about 90% sure I know what many of y’all’s choices will be, and it won’t particularly prioritize age or mental sharpness. God bless if you support a non-Trump 2024 candidate, I hope your guy/gal will win the primary.

If I could vote today in a primary and Biden wasn’t an incumbent, I would vote for someone younger - please consider doing the same in the 2024 GOP primary.

Hell, if there is a Dem primary for some reason, I will support someone younger, will you?

I imagine many of y’all will vote for Trump regardless, and therefore I rest my case that age is a factor, but not the primary factor in choosing a political leader.

Edited March 28, 2023 by nsplayr

[arg]

He said he has a refrigerator full of ice cream, not even joking. That's a damn lie. Fill your fridge with ice cream and see what happens. If he can't get the little details right, how can he get the big ones right? 

[dream big]

7 hours ago, nsplayr said:

So here is the actual full video (~28 minutes) of Biden’s remarks at the Women’s Business Summit at the White House.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?526980-1/president-biden-calls-congress-pass-assault-weapons-ban-nashville-school-shooting

10:14-12:24 includes his opening comments about the shooting in Nashville. Feel free to judge him by those comments; I think they were very appropriate. Of literally all the things in the entire world Joe Biden can speak about well and compassionately, it would be having a child die cruelty too soon.

Before 10:14 he was introduced and warmed up the visiting crowd at the White House, which included kids, and after 12:24, he have his actual remarks about women and their businesses. Even the joking comment about Jenni’s Ice Cream  highlighted in bad faith above makes sense given that it’s not only a personal fav of his and an ongoing meme about him, but it’s also an ice cream business started by a woman that’s now wildly successful.

So given full context instead of the dickhead edit you see above, I have basically zero critiques.

You have zero critiques with a nation wide assault weapons ban?

[Springer]

6 hours ago, nsplayr said:

I’m also a mainstream Democrat and support his mainstream Dem-priority policy accomplishments.

 

In all seriousness would you explain those?

[dream big]

12 minutes ago, Springer said:

In all seriousness would you explain those?

Destroyed our energy sector, rejoined the useless Paris Climate Accords, continued to cow tow towards Iran while they kill Americans, massive number DEI/affirmative action hires like VPOTUS, humiliated the United States in Afghanistan, billions of dollars to Ukraine that we will never see again all while ensuring a free flow of future voters, sorry I mean illegal immigrants, sorry I mean “Undocumented Persons” across the Southern Border. These are mainstream Dem positions right? I’ll just let Nsplayr explain himself and also explain why he has zero critiques of a nation wide “Assault Weapon” Ban. 

[FourFans]

13 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Joe Biden is the parent of a service member who died, and also lost his daughter and first wife in a horrible car accident. I’m sure views on him are not 100% positive when polling gold star families, but I give him high marks on the grief counseling role that every POTUS inevitably has to do.

I’m also a mainstream Democrat and support his mainstream Dem-priority policy accomplishments.

If you’re a conservative I imagine you don’t, but it shouldn’t be hard to understand why a Democrat likely would.

I am neither conservative nor liberal, democrat nor republican.  I never voted for Trump.  I never voted for Biden.  I currently have been voting more conservative simply because I have been agreeing topic to topic in that direction.  It's not always been that way.  For example: Democrats used to be anti-censorship and anti-authoritarian and I agreed with them often.  Now they aren't, so now I don't.

I'm an American who prefers adults making difficult decisions using humility, reason, logic, candor, and a certain level of social awareness.  Our current president has none of those attributes.  He is a hollow shell and you clearly understate all your critiques of him.  It shows in how you carefully craft those critiques.  Have the balls to admit the truth:  Biden, Trump, and a vast majority of our current government have no business leading anything...ever.  Yet you support them.  If you let these people run your house or manage your daily decisions, you'd be homeless, divorced, and broke....and like addicted.

I implore you to stop being a coward and call a spade a spade.  Our government under Biden's administration has amplified political divisions rather then unifying as they claimed they would, has undercut our self-defense capacities, and is in the process of putting our economy nearly a decade away from fiscal recovery by way of spending beyond their means.  There is no way you'd run your personal life the way this administration is, yet you actively support how they run our nations affairs.  Such dissonance is not sustainable psychologically or socially.  That's not understatement.  That's factual information from each of those areas of focus.  Ignore it if you want, but if you choose to refute it, please bring facts that prove your point, not emotions.

You'll note I reference no social agendas, politics, or hot topic issues.  It's the basics that are completely messed up.  Live within your means.  Make rational decisions.  Protect the family unit.  Don't pass on debt to your children.  Unify, don't divide.   Basics.

If you insist on supporting agendas simply because they are "mainstream democrat" I beg you to reconsider.  Acting in that way makes you what Marx called a "Useful Idiot", and you are hurting our country.

Edited March 29, 2023 by FourFans

[brabus]

14 hours ago, nsplayr said:

I imagine many of y’all will vote for Trump regardless,

I think most of us have zero desire to vote for him again. At least he got the silent treatment from the crowd when he mocked Desantis like a child at his last rally. Hopefully that’s an indicator of what’s to come. The RNC is absolutely fucking retarded if they nominate him again, as he’s probably the one guy who can actually lose to Biden. 

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, FourFans said:

I am neither conservative nor liberal, democrat nor republican.  I never voted for Trump.  I never voted for Biden.  I currently have been voting more conservative simply because I have been agreeing topic to topic in that direction.  It's not always been that way.  For example: Democrats used to be anti-censorship and anti-authoritarian and I agreed with them often.  Now they aren't, so now I don't.

I'm an American who prefers adults making difficult decisions using humility, reason, logic, candor, and a certain level of social awareness.  Our current president has none of those attributes.  He is a hollow shell and you clearly understate all your critiques of him.  It shows in how you carefully craft those critiques.  Have the balls to admit the truth:  Biden, Trump, and a vast majority of our current government have no business leading anything...ever.  Yet you support them.  If you let these people run your house or manage your daily decisions, you'd be homeless, divorced, and broke....and like addicted.

I implore you to stop being a coward and call a spade a spade.  Our government under Biden's administration has amplified political divisions rather then unifying as they claimed they would, has undercut our self-defense capacities, and is in the process of putting our economy nearly a decade away from fiscal recovery by way of spending beyond their means.  There is no way you'd run your personal life the way this administration is, yet you actively support how they run our nations affairs.  Such dissonance is not sustainable psychologically or socially.  That's not understatement.  That's factual information from each of those areas of focus.  Ignore it if you want, but if you choose to refute it, please bring facts that prove your point, not emotions.

You'll note I reference no social agendas, politics, or hot topic issues.  It's the basics that are completely messed up.  Live within your means.  Make rational decisions.  Protect the family unit.  Don't pass on debt to your children.  Unify, don't divide.   Basics.

If you insist on supporting agendas simply because they are "mainstream democrat" I beg you to reconsider.  Acting in that way makes you what Marx called a "Useful Idiot", and you are hurting our country.

You’re describing an ideal world that doesn’t, and will never exist. Politics has always been somewhat dirty/disingenuous/cynical/whatever you want to call it. Politicians will always be politicians and there will always be some element of holding your nose when you vote. This is still miles better than the alternative. I will also happily vote for Joe Biden if Trump is the Republicans’ nominee and he’ll likely be my choice even over DeSantis, Hailey, or many of the other Republican front runners (although I am open to what they have to say), simply because of the fact that I tend to align with more D policies than R. Not all policies…there’s certainly plenty of room for improvement on both sides. But more. That’s how it goes in a democracy. There are millions of voters with disparate interests and agendas. Recognize that you’re never going to be totally pleased by any one candidate and that your own interests, no matter how righteous you think you are, are only a tiny fraction of the country’s as a whole. No one is being a coward here. We are simply accepting reality and acting in the manner that suits our needs and desires in the best way possible. 

[FourFans]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

You’re describing an ideal world that doesn’t, and will never exist. Politics has always been somewhat dirty/disingenuous/cynical/whatever you want to call it. Politicians will always be politicians and there will always be some element of holding your nose when you vote. This is still miles better than the alternative. I will also happily vote for Joe Biden if Trump is the Republicans’ nominee and he’ll likely be my choice even over DeSantis, Hailey, or many of the other Republican front runners (although I am open to what they have to say), simply because of the fact that I tend to align with more D policies than R. Not all policies…there’s certainly plenty of room for improvement on both sides. But more. That’s how it goes in a democracy. There are millions of voters with disparate interests and agendas. Recognize that you’re never going to be totally pleased by any one candidate and that your own interests, no matter how righteous you think you are, are only a tiny fraction of the country’s as a whole. No one is being a coward here. We are simply accepting reality and acting in the manner that suits our needs and desires in the best way possible. 

So you are saying Biden is honestly the best option for leading our country right now?  Regardless of the track record to date?  You're willing to vote for him again instead of someone like desantis who has a proven record of success in implementing policies that are both wanted by the people he leads and actually result in good outcomes?  

It sounds like you are advocating for siding with politics instead of reason because we can't change the world, so might as well accept shitty performance out of our leaders and move on.  Do you accept that same stance with your financial advisor, mechanic, plumber, or home repair specialist?

If not, please address, specifically, the items you are very happy with from Biden.  You may agree with his policies, but please show me the exact outcomes in, lets say: economics, that you are pleased with.  Do you believe Biden has unified or divided the country through his efforts?  Is our international footing better or worse because of the policies of the last two years?  Get specific please.

You wouldn't ignore strange noises under the hood after a visit to the mechanic, and you'd want to know exactly what's wrong.  I'm asking the same questions.  Don't tell me to ignore what's broken just because "Politics has always been somewhat dirty/disingenuous/cynical".

Without fail, every time I ask these kinds of questions I get one of three responses: "Somehow Trump's fault."   "You won't understand because I already know what you believe" or "I don't want to talk about his."  Never have a I heard a rational, unemotional explanation of why people are pleased with Biden.  Not Once.  The truest response I ever got was "Doesn't it make you feel good that we're voicing support for the oppressed?"  Those aren't answers. That's dodging the question because those people are afraid to answer questions with real facts and are running away.  So yes, I will call that what it is.  Cowardice.

 

[brabus]

@FourFans Good points but you’re going nowhere. Prozac is an idiot who votes a blind D ticket just like every idiot who votes a blind R ticket. To further demo the balance of this problem, his statement above makes him as delusional/uninformed/blind as the people who happily push for trump in the primaries. They’re no different from each other, just one is on the D side and the other is on the R side.  These people will always exist in our society, unfortunately. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink…

Edited March 29, 2023 by brabus

[FourFans]

16 minutes ago, brabus said:

@FourFans Good points but you’re going nowhere. Prozac is an idiot who votes a blind D ticket just like every idiot who votes a blind R ticket. To further demo the balance of this problem, his statement above makes him as delusional/uninformed/blind as the people who happily push for trump in the primaries. They’re no different from each other, just one is on the D side and the other is on the R side.  These people will always exist in our society, unfortunately. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink…

Perhaps, but I've never met these guys, so I'm not willing to believe that.  Rhetoric spouted online is almost invariably an escalated and idealized versions of true beliefs.  Everyone does that.  I know I do.  Cutting through to ground truth of a differing view is worth it to me, so I'll keeping asking questions until I'm actually answered.

To be clear: guys like @nsplayrand @Prozac are invaluable resources worth listening to.  They continue to post on what is largely a conservative forum despite often getting attacked or derided for their beliefs, yet they continue.  That means they are true believers and I, for one, seek to understand what facts drive their beliefs.  History teaches that the left mis-understands or completely fails to care about the beliefs of the right.  If conservatives and moderates don't try to understand the left, there is no hope of any kind of compromise, and society splits...which we're seeing right now.

Edited March 29, 2023 by FourFans

[kaputt]

All the back and forth aside, it’s going to be a very sad time for our country if the 2024 election is Trump vs Biden again. I honestly have no idea what I’m going to do if those are the choices. I voted for Trump twice, and don’t regret either one, but I won’t do it a third time because he is not the person to lead the country out of the mess it’s in. 
 

I plan to vote in a primary for the first time in my life next year, even though my state’s primary is pretty unimportant, I feel like I need to do something to try and prevent Trump from being the nominee.

[Prozac]

44 minutes ago, FourFans said:

So you are saying Biden is honestly the best option for leading our country right now?  Regardless of the track record to date?  You're willing to vote for him again instead of someone like desantis who has a proven record of success in implementing policies that are both wanted by the people he leads and actually result in good outcomes?  

It sounds like you are advocating for siding with politics instead of reason because we can't change the world, so might as well accept shitty performance out of our leaders and move on.  Do you accept that same stance with your financial advisor, mechanic, plumber, or home repair specialist?

If not, please address, specifically, the items you are very happy with from Biden.  You may agree with his policies, but please show me the exact outcomes in, lets say: economics, that you are pleased with.  Do you believe Biden has unified or divided the country through his efforts?  Is our international footing better or worse because of the policies of the last two years?  Get specific please.

You wouldn't ignore strange noises under the hood after a visit to the mechanic, and you'd want to know exactly what's wrong.  I'm asking the same questions.  Don't tell me to ignore what's broken just because "Politics has always been somewhat dirty/disingenuous/cynical".

Without fail, every time I ask these kinds of questions I get one of three responses: "Somehow Trump's fault."   "You won't understand because I already know what you believe" or "I don't want to talk about his."  Never have a I heard a rational, unemotional explanation of why people are pleased with Biden.  Not Once.  The truest response I ever got was "Doesn't it make you feel good that we're voicing support for the oppressed?"  Those aren't answers. That's dodging the question because those people are afraid to answer questions with real facts and are running away.  So yes, I will call that what it is.  Cowardice.

 

Dude, we can go back and fourth about what Joe Biden or Donald Trump or anyone else has or has not done for this country. That’s not the point. The point is to recognize that (shockingly) not everyone thinks like you. While Ron DeSantis may very well be doing right by the people of Florida, that’s not necessarily what the people of New York, or Detroit, or Asheville, or Boise want or need. Somebody is going to need to make some compromises. No…scratch that….everybody is going to need to make some compromises. You can recognize that fact and act accordingly and vote for whomever you feel works best for you, or you can continue to play victim, focus on all the wrongs the other side has committed, and blame all your woes on the other “side” (whoever they are). Which philosophy do you think is better for the nation (not to mention one’s own mental health)? 

[Prozac]

47 minutes ago, brabus said:

@FourFans Good points but you’re going nowhere. Prozac is an idiot who votes a blind D ticket just like every idiot who votes a blind R ticket. To further demo the balance of this problem, his statement above makes him as delusional/uninformed/blind as the people who happily push for trump in the primaries. They’re no different from each other, just one is on the D side and the other is on the R side.  These people will always exist in our society, unfortunately. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink…

Nice. 

[Prozac]

45 minutes ago, FourFans said:

Perhaps, but I've never met these guys, so I'm not willing to believe that.  Rhetoric spouted online is almost invariably an escalated and idealized versions of true beliefs.  Everyone does that.  I know I do.  Cutting through to ground truth of a differing view is worth it to me, so I'll keeping asking questions until I'm actually answered.

To be clear: guys like @nsplayrand @Prozac are invaluable resources worth listening to.  They continue to post on what is largely a conservative forum despite often getting attacked or derided for their beliefs, yet they continue.  That means they are true believers and I, for one, seek to understand what facts drive their beliefs.  History teaches that the left mis-understands or completely fails to care about the beliefs of the right.  If conservatives and moderates don't try to understand the left, there is no hope of any kind of compromise, and society splits...which we're seeing right now.

One of the more thoughtful and insightful posts I’ve seen in a while. Some truth here…

[slc]

42 minutes ago, Prozac said:

what Joe Biden or Donald Trump or anyone else has or has not done for this country. That’s not the point.

Actually, that is the point....or do I just turn a blind eye to it all

[FourFans]

2 hours ago, Prozac said:

Dude, we can go back and fourth about what Joe Biden or Donald Trump or anyone else has or has not done for this country. That’s not the point. The point is to recognize that (shockingly) not everyone thinks like you. While Ron DeSantis may very well be doing right by the people of Florida, that’s not necessarily what the people of New York, or Detroit, or Asheville, or Boise want or need. Somebody is going to need to make some compromises. No…scratch that….everybody is going to need to make some compromises. You can recognize that fact and act accordingly and vote for whomever you feel works best for you, or you can continue to play victim, focus on all the wrongs the other side has committed, and blame all your woes on the other “side” (whoever they are). Which philosophy do you think is better for the nation (not to mention one’s own mental health)? 

So you're going with option 3 dodge: "I don't want to talk about it" in reference to direct, reasonable questions I asked you.  What Joe Biden and Trump have done, and are doing, to this country is EXACTLY the point.  Especially when you advocate for or against voting for either of them.  It's called reasoned public debate, ironically what the "forum" is designed for.  I'm simply asking for you to elaborate your point of view with specifics.  If you can't or won't, why should anyone listen to a single word you say?  I'm asking for insight into why you believe what you believe, yet you obfuscate.

You know very little of my own views, as you've asked no questions.  Are you going to answer my questions, or just continue shifting the subject?

For reference:

3 hours ago, FourFans said:

So you are saying Biden is honestly the best option for leading our country right now? 

You're willing to vote for him again instead of someone like desantis who has a proven record of success in implementing policies that are both wanted by the people he leads and actually result in good outcomes?  

Do you accept that same stance with your financial advisor, mechanic, plumber, or home repair specialist?

Do you believe Biden has unified or divided the country through his efforts? 

Is our international footing better or worse because of the policies of the last two years?  Get specific please.

Without fail, every time I ask these kinds of questions I get one of three responses: "Somehow Trump's fault."   "You won't understand because I already know what you believe" or "I don't want to talk about his."  Those aren't answers.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by FourFans

[CaptainMorgan]

I say Biden/DeSantis ticket for 2024. Dems get what they want as long as Biden stays alive. Republicans get what they want when he dies, and until then they get the Senate back by having DeSantis as the tie breaker (assuming no shift from the current seats).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FourFans]

1 minute ago, CaptainMorgan said:

I say Biden/DeSantis ticket for 2024. Dems get what they want as long as Biden stays alive. Republicans get what they want when he dies, and until then they get the Senate back by having DeSantis as the tie breaker (assuming no shift from the current seats).

[Prozac]

4 hours ago, FourFans said:

So you're going with option 3 dodge: "I don't want to talk about it" in reference to direct, reasonable questions I asked you.  What Joe Biden and Trump have done, and are doing, to this country is EXACTLY the point.  Especially when you advocate for or against voting for either of them.  It's called reasoned public debate, ironically what the "forum" is designed for.  I'm simply asking for you to elaborate your point of view with specifics.  If you can't or won't, why should anyone listen to a single word you say?  I'm asking for insight into why you believe what you believe, yet you obfuscate.

You know very little of my own views, as you've asked no questions.  Are you going to answer my questions, or just continue shifting the subject?

For reference:

 

You’ve got a tendency to try and take things into the weeds when someone is trying to give you the 35K ft view. I’ll try and articulate my point one more time: There is never going to come a time in this country when half of the population suddenly realizes the error of their ways, has a mass epiphany, and starts voting the way you think they should, no matter how hard you try to convince them. Your voting choices are just as much of a head scratcher to them as theirs are to you. Whatever side you are on (neither your personal views, nor mine are pertinent to the point I’m trying to make), you can choose one of two paths: 

A. You can lament the path the country is on, blame others for it, and scream bloody murder every time you perceive that a poor choice has been made. This is easy and may lead to a short term release of pleasurable endorphins (we all love to “own” our opponents). But in the end, it accomplishes very little. In fact, it just further divides us and leads to further dysfunction. 
 

B. You can take some responsibility for our shared experience and understand that while you are unlikely to change many “others’” minds, there is plenty you can do at local and grassroots levels that, taken in aggregate, can lead to positive change. Things like going to school board meetings, engaging with your city council, participating in local and primary elections, writing letters to your representatives, etc, still have a major role to play in our democracy. They take time and effort, are unlikely to lead to rapid change, and almost certainly won’t get you everything you want. In other words, option B is the hard road. But it’s the only productive way forward for us. 
 

Or, you can keep beating your head against a wall trying to convince everyone you disagree with that you’re right. Up to you. I get it man. You’re fired up, confident in your convictions, and want to take on the world. We had a great label for the piss and vinegar crowd at a previous unit: “All thrust, no vector”. I appreciate and admire your vigor….just make sure you point it in a productive direction (STS). 

[O Face]

2 hours ago, Prozac said:

 

Things like going to school board meetings, engaging with your city council, participating in local and primary elections, writing lette

Don’t fall for it @FourFans!!  Of course the liberal is going to suggest you go and speak up at a school board meeting. How else is the Gestapo, oops I mean FBI, going to know who you are??

Here’s an article, not from Fox News, so it’s ok for our lib friends to read it…

House Judiciary Committee Republicans claimed in a letter on Wednesday that the FBI conducted investigations into Americans based on allegations that they threatened local school boards, citing whistleblowers from the agency.

The FBI’s counterterrorism bureau reportedly created an internal “threat tag” in fall 2021 to track alleged threats against school boards following an October 4 directive from Attorney General Merrick Garland. Garland released his directive after the National School Boards Association called on the Biden administrationon September 29 to investigate parents who allegedly threatened boards over policies on school masks and critical race theory, and to determine whether the parents had violated

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by O Face