The Next President is...

[FourFans]

4 hours ago, Prozac said:

You’ve got a tendency to try and take things into the weeds when someone is trying to give you the 35K ft view. I’ll try and articulate my point one more time: There is never going to come a time in this country when half of the population suddenly realizes the error of their ways, has a mass epiphany, and starts voting the way you think they should, no matter how hard you try to convince them. Your voting choices are just as much of a head scratcher to them as theirs are to you. Whatever side you are on (neither your personal views, nor mine are pertinent to the point I’m trying to make), you can choose one of two paths: 

A. You can lament the path the country is on, blame others for it, and scream bloody murder every time you perceive that a poor choice has been made. This is easy and may lead to a short term release of pleasurable endorphins (we all love to “own” our opponents). But in the end, it accomplishes very little. In fact, it just further divides us and leads to further dysfunction. 
 

B. You can take some responsibility for our shared experience and understand that while you are unlikely to change many “others’” minds, there is plenty you can do at local and grassroots levels that, taken in aggregate, can lead to positive change. Things like going to school board meetings, engaging with your city council, participating in local and primary elections, writing letters to your representatives, etc, still have a major role to play in our democracy. They take time and effort, are unlikely to lead to rapid change, and almost certainly won’t get you everything you want. In other words, option B is the hard road. But it’s the only productive way forward for us. 
 

Or, you can keep beating your head against a wall trying to convince everyone you disagree with that you’re right. Up to you. I get it man. You’re fired up, confident in your convictions, and want to take on the world. We had a great label for the piss and vinegar crowd at a previous unit: “All thrust, no vector”. I appreciate and admire your vigor….just make sure you point it in a productive direction (STS). 

Son, reading comprehension has failed.  I asked clear questions which you refuse to answer.  I made no implication on who to vote for, yet you say I did.  I have made no attempt to sway your opinion, I've simply posed questions asking you to elaborate your beliefs. 

Instead you displayed ignorant arrogance.  You have no clue who I am, nor what I believe, yet you pumped all your missiles into the "all thrust, no vector" fire ball.  You're a no-step U for loss of SA before even getting out of the brief.  I was really hoping for better.  Disappointing.  We're done here.

Edited March 30, 2023 by FourFans

[FLEA]

https://www.foxnews.com/official-polls/fox-news-poll-trumps-lead-grows-in-gop-primary-race-now-over-50-support

 

I think the thing I find most ironic and strange about this whole poll is that the one demographic not swooning over Trump is the demographic that liberals hate the most..... well off white men..... lmao....

[Boomer6]

Finding common ground is hard to do. Especially when, in this situation, ppl like Prozac and NSA refuse to acknowledge the drastic shortcomings of politicians they support/voted to elect. Is it pride that refuses to acknowledge the less than stellar performance pointed out by your brothers in arms on the other side of the aisle? As if, by admitting that your pick isn’t JFK reincarnate, your worldview is somehow threatened.

Admitting these politicians have made any serious mistakes is showing weakness, which is not allowed. It’s not surprising, because this is the same mindset that every POS commander I’ve dealt with in the AF has. Deny, deny, deny, counter accuse.

”Everyone is going to have to compromise” but also I refuse to even entertain the notion that the current president has made any significant errors. You’re disingenuous. Along with everyone on the right that thinks trump is our lord and savior. The ppl that refuse to converse/debate in good faith are directly responsible for the breakdown in cooperation in both society and government. The more you double down the more the forever trumpers are going to double down, and the more the moderate right is going to move further right, and the moderate left is going to move further left. I hope you’re ready when the pendulum swings back the other direction.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Boomer6

[Prozac]

4 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

Everyone is going to have to compromise” but also I refuse to even entertain the notion that the current president has made any significant errors. You’re disingenuous.

Not sure where you’re getting that from. I freely admit Joe Biden is far from perfect. But he’s the result of the democratic process. I wish we had a Klobuchar or a Gabbard instead, but we don’t. I didn’t vote for Joe in the primary but that’s who we got anyway. At the end of the day, he still represents my values better than Trump did and probably better than DeSantis. (Remember; I’m a guy who thinks government has a bigger role to play than conservatives do. Why would I vote for someone who opposes my values?) At the end of the day, Biden’s likely where my vote is going even if he isn’t perfect. Does that mean I think DeSantis can’t govern? Of course not. If he’s elected, he will be my president and he’ll probably even do some things I agree with. I just don’t understand why some here don’t understand why someone who leans D would be reluctant to vote R. I’ve had the exact same conversation with liberal friends over the last few years who couldn’t understand why anyone could vote for Trump. Lifelong Republicans sure as shit weren’t going to vote for Hillary and they were smart enough not to give her the election by throwing their votes away to a third party. This concept shouldn’t be that hard to grasp. 

[nsplayr]

On 3/29/2023 at 7:51 AM, FourFans said:

I never voted for Trump.  I never voted for Biden.

In that case you have to understand that your are a bit odd politically. That's fine, but just as a frame of reference, nearly every voter has voted for either Trump or Biden, and have good reasons to do so one way or the other.

Saying you don't support either is not bad, but it's not necessarily good either; it's not some high-minded place where you can sit and people who voted for one or the other of those two flawed Presidents.

On 3/29/2023 at 7:51 AM, FourFans said:

I'm an American who prefers adults making difficult decisions using humility, reason, logic, candor, and a certain level of social awareness.  Our current president has none of those attributes.  He is a hollow shell and you clearly understate all your critiques of him.  It shows in how you carefully craft those critiques.  Have the balls to admit the truth:  Biden, Trump, and a vast majority of our current government have no business leading anything...ever.  Yet you support them.  If you let these people run your house or manage your daily decisions, you'd be homeless, divorced, and broke....and like addicted.

 Sorry but I don't agree with that assessment, especially when you roped in the entire Cabinet and Congress. As with any group of people there are strong swimmers and morons, and everyone has flaws, but again, it's not some kind of high-minded stance to just say, "They all suck, throw the bums out!"

Ok cool story...back here in the real world I'm trying to do the best we can and see the policies I want enacted and the values I share reflected, and people who have different policy priorities and values from me are also doing the same. We can't just give up and say they all suck and live in a bunker.

On 3/29/2023 at 7:51 AM, FourFans said:

I implore you to stop being a coward and call a spade a spade.

If you insist on supporting agendas simply because they are "mainstream democrat" I beg you to reconsider.  Acting in that way makes you what Marx called a "Useful Idiot", and you are hurting our country.

This is where you lost me. Do you want a maybe-helpful back-and-forth or do you want to call me a coward and a useful idiot? Because you shouldn't expect to have both.

I'm an active commission officer who's dedicated my professional life to military service and I've spent about 6,900% too much time on these boards debating on politics with a relatively detailed and consistent point of view.

So I don't really appreciate being called a coward who's hurting the country who has also failed to be specific on my political views. Shit, somewhere in the way-back machine on BO.net you can read probably a literal book's worth of argument about why Obama's economic policies were better than those Romney was proposing circa 2011-2012!

Edited March 30, 2023 by nsplayr

[nsplayr]

On 3/29/2023 at 9:36 AM, FourFans said:

To be clear: guys like @nsplayrand @Prozac are invaluable resources worth listening to.  They continue to post on what is largely a conservative forum despite often getting attacked or derided for their beliefs, yet they continue.  That means they are true believers and I, for one, seek to understand what facts drive their beliefs.  History teaches that the left mis-understands or completely fails to care about the beliefs of the right.  If conservatives and moderates don't try to understand the left, there is no hope of any kind of compromise, and society splits...which we're seeing right now.

Ok you recovered from the rapid descent here and if this is truly how you feel, I'm willing to engage. Just keep in mind if you call people cowards and an unpatriotic useful idiots, they are not likely to engage with you in good faith!

[BashiChuni]

6 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

 

I'm an active commission officer who's dedicated my professional life to military service 

Thank you for your service 

[nsplayr]

For specifics on why I support the Biden admin in general:

1. Passed the Inflation Reduction Act
   • Massive investments into clean energy, including tax credits and point-of-sale rebates on things like EVs, solar & battery systems, induction stoves, heat pumps, etc.
   • Strongly incentivizes clean energy manufacturing and mining to take place in the US or allied nations
   • Allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices, capping out-of-pocket prescription prices for seniors on Medicare, driving down insulin prices for everyone, strengthening ACA subsidies which make those plans more affordable, etc.
2. Passed the CHIPS & Science Act - bipartisan accomplishment
   • Onshores critical semiconductor manufacturing & greatly boosts R&D and workforce training, strengthening national security and long-term lessening the impact of a China-Taiwan conflict
3. Passed the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act - bipartisan accomplishment
   • Big investments into mental health services and some modest gun safety measures like red flag laws and enhancing background checks to keep guns out of the hands of folks who probably shouldn't have them
4. Supporting Ukraine in their effort to repel the Russian invasion - bipartisan accomplishment
   • Hobbling the conventional military forces of one of our biggest geopolitical foes for pennies on the dollar. Zero american military lives lost (RIP to that one MQ-9 haha)
   • Uniting Europe against Putin and his aggressive, expansionist ambitions, adding new valuable allies to NATO, punishing Russia economically for Putin's bad behavior, and replacing Russia as Europe's biggest source of energy

Those are my top 4  on policy at least. Additionally:

• Appointing a younger liberal SCOTUS justice to replace a retiring liberal was good if you are liberally-minded...we have messed this one up before.
• The American Rescue Plan was expensive and probably contributed some to the high inflation last summer, but I think it also helped us come out the back end better than anywhere else in the world - we're stronger & have better growth and less inflation than Europe or Japan/ROK/Aus/NZ/etc.
• TBH also just basic stuff like not tweeting insane shit all the time, not pissing off all of our allies constantly, not doing crimes like trying to overturn an election, etc. - I appreciate that in a President!
• Biden also led his party to a very strong mid-term showing compared to what happens historically during a President's first midterm. Dems gained a seat in the Senate and only lost a handful of House seats when the norm is getting blasted (see Obama 2010 and Trump 2018 as examples). I appreciate winning so we can do more of the above in the future.

I don't worship Biden or think he's perfect. As I've said before, he's about 15-30 years older than I would like, picking Harris as VP was a mistake in hindsight because she is not a viable successor, and I don't agree with everything he's ever said or done (90s crime bill, wanting to partition Iraq, opposing the bin Laden raid, etc.).

BUT, he's an effective incumbent who has help sheppard through a lot of things I support, so he's got my vote if he is going to run again in 2024.

If there's a Dem primary, I'd love to support someone like Buttigieg, Polis, Klobuchar, Shapiro, Warnock, Whitmer, Beshear, Kelley, Pritzker etc. in roughly that order. I'm not a conservative, but if the GOP ran someone like Larry Hogan or Phil Scott I'd be open to hearing their pitch, and I appreciate the need for a reasonable party in opposition to the one I usually support. States with long-standing one-party rule don't tend to be run as well as those with real political competition IMHO.

Edited March 30, 2023 by nsplayr

[nsplayr]

18 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

Thank you for your service 

You too buddy 😂🍺

[BashiChuni]

So your number one accomplishment listed didn’t actually do anything to reduce inflation? Strange accomplishment. 

[HossHarris]

As someone directly affected by the acumen of the secretary of transportation, buttigieg is a bum…. But he would prolly be easy to beat….

[nsplayr]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

So your number one accomplishment listed didn’t actually do anything to reduce inflation? Strange accomplishment. 

Inflation seemed to have peaked in June 2022 at 9.1%, the IRA was passed in August 2022, now the latest data from February 2023 it’s at 6% and continuing to trend down.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cpi.pdf

😂

This is all said in jest. The IRA had little to do with inflation and was named by San. Joe Manchin. In exchange for his vote, I would have let him name or whatever he wanted! It is a clean energy and healthcare costs law, and a good one at that IMHO.

Edited March 30, 2023 by nsplayr

[BashiChuni]

"clean" energy lol

if the left really was worried about "climate change" (notice global warming labeling has been removed), they would embrace nuclear power.

biden has been a totally inept president.

Edited March 30, 2023 by BashiChuni

[lloyd christmas]

So, Trump got indicted.  Get ready for the biggest shit show our country has ever seen.  

[nsplayr]

5 minutes ago, lloyd christmas said:

So, Trump got indicted.  Get ready for the biggest shit show our country has ever seen.  

I mean…disagree. One former president and his legal troubles shall pass, and we’ll all move on.

Actual shit-shows and national tragedies depicted for reference.

[nsplayr]

3 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

"clean" energy lol

if the left really was worried about "climate change" (notice global warming labeling has been removed), they would embrace nuclear power.

biden has been a totally inept president.

Nuclear power is great and we should build way, way more! Never should have stopped building. Put a small modular reactor on every mil base and near every major city. Also if/when we figure out fusion it’s game over for everything else and we can usher in a future of incredible energy abundance. 

In the meantime, and because the HOA prohibits nuclear reactors on neighborhood lots, have solar on my roof and it’s awesome!

Edited March 31, 2023 by nsplayr

[lloyd christmas]

@nsplayryou know I’m not comparing this to Pearl Harbor or 9/11.  The media frenzy, Trump behind the mic, the trial…   You know what I’m talking about.  

[Sim]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

The IRA had little to do with inflation and was named by San. Joe Manchin. In exchange for his vote, I would have let him name or whatever he wanted! It is a clean energy and healthcare costs law, and a good one

Using any means necessary (lie, steal, cheat) as long as your team wins.  Because it's (D)ifferent.  

[Prozac]

3 minutes ago, lloyd christmas said:

@nsplayryou know I’m not comparing this to Pearl Harbor or 9/11.  The media frenzy, Trump behind the mic, the trial…   You know what I’m talking about.  

He should hire some serious minded, professional lawyers, take their advice, STFU, and try not to steal the limelight from Republican candidates who are actually serious about wanting to govern this country. I’d honestly much rather listen to their ideas than DJT ironically whining about how unfair life’s been to him. Alas, he is who he is and he’ll be making sure he’s stealing the spotlight for the next year and a half. 😐 Yes, the media will play a large role, but part of that is Trump’s own fault through his constant quest for notoriety. At this point, I could honestly not care less whether he is prosecuted….he just needs to go away. There’s got to be some sort of reality show he could host where he could grab all the pussy he ever wanted and not have to worry about the monotony of things like daily intelligence briefings & what’s actually in the constitution. ‘The Bachelor; Ex-Presidents Edition’  maybe? 

[ClearedHot]

6 hours ago, nsplayr said:

For specifics on why I support the Biden admin in general:

1. Passed the Inflation Reduction Act
   • Massive investments into clean energy, including tax credits and point-of-sale rebates on things like EVs, solar & battery systems, induction stoves, heat pumps, etc.
   • Strongly incentivizes clean energy manufacturing and mining to take place in the US or allied nations
   • Allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices, capping out-of-pocket prescription prices for seniors on Medicare, driving down insulin prices for everyone, strengthening ACA subsidies which make those plans more affordable, etc.
2. Passed the CHIPS & Science Act - bipartisan accomplishment
   • Onshores critical semiconductor manufacturing & greatly boosts R&D and workforce training, strengthening national security and long-term lessening the impact of a China-Taiwan conflict
3. Passed the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act - bipartisan accomplishment
   • Big investments into mental health services and some modest gun safety measures like red flag laws and enhancing background checks to keep guns out of the hands of folks who probably shouldn't have them
4. Supporting Ukraine in their effort to repel the Russian invasion - bipartisan accomplishment
   • Hobbling the conventional military forces of one of our biggest geopolitical foes for pennies on the dollar. Zero american military lives lost (RIP to that one MQ-9 haha)
   • Uniting Europe against Putin and his aggressive, expansionist ambitions, adding new valuable allies to NATO, punishing Russia economically for Putin's bad behavior, and replacing Russia as Europe's biggest source of energy

 

You missed a few:

1.  Afghanistan and 13 dead Americans, seriously the cowardice of every liberal that glosses over this event and who bares the blame.  Yesterday SECDEF said he has "No Regrets" about the chaotic Afghanistan and Biden didn't immediately fire him. F anyone of you who shares that sentiment.  Again, 13 dead Americans, their memory brushed away into the wind.

2.  Inflation has reached its highest level in 40 years.  I love your phrase "probably contributed some to the high inflation"...Ya think?  FFS.

3.  An increase in the cost of everyday goods and services disproportionately hurts lower-income families. Real average hourly earnings have decreased by 1.7 percent because of inflation.

4. Border chaos - 2.76 million illegal immigrants crossed the border in 2022 including 600,000 getaways.  In Feb of 2023 16 people on the Terror Watch List were detained trying to cross meaning 3-4 made it across each month...great policy you got there.

5. Chinese Balloons - Do whatever you want China.

6.  Classified documents EVERYWHERE.

6 hours ago, nsplayr said:

I don't worship Biden or think he's perfect. As I've said before, he's about 15-30 years older than I would like, picking Harris as VP was a mistake in hindsight because she is not a viable successor, and I don't agree with everything he's ever said or done (90s crime bill, wanting to partition Iraq, opposing the bin Laden raid, etc.).

BUT, he's an effective incumbent who has help sheppard through a lot of things I support, so he's got my vote if he is going to run again in 2024.

Anything to retain power...he can't even read a teleprompter without reading the instructions out loud.

6 hours ago, nsplayr said:

If there's a Dem primary, I'd love to support someone like Buttigieg, Polis, Klobuchar, Warnock, Whitmer, Beshear, Kelley, Pritzker etc. in roughly that order. I'm not a conservative, but if the GOP ran someone like Larry Hogan or Phil Scott I'd be open to hearing their pitch, and I appreciate the need for a reasonable party in opposition to the one I usually support. States with long-standing one-party rule don't tend to be run as well as those with real political competition IMHO.

Buttigieg...for reals...did you not hear about the issue at the ports (maybe you were following his maternity leave posts instead of the news about the supply chain crisis.  The airline meltdown over the holiday...where was this boob?  Trains derailing and destroying towns.  The only person worse than this clown is Mayorkas.

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

He should hire some serious minded, professional lawyers, take their advice, STFU, and try not to steal the limelight from Republican candidates who are actually serious about wanting to govern this country. I’d honestly much rather listen to their ideas than DJT ironically whining about how unfair life’s been to him. Alas, he is who he is and he’ll be making sure he’s stealing the spotlight for the next year and a half. 😐 Yes, the media will play a large role, but part of that is Trump’s own fault through his constant quest for notoriety. At this point, I could honestly not care less whether he is prosecuted….he just needs to go away. There’s got to be some sort of reality show he could host where he could grab all the pussy he ever wanted and not have to worry about the monotony of things like daily intelligence briefings & what’s actually in the constitution. ‘The Bachelor; Ex-Presidents Edition’  maybe? 

Even the Dems are saying this is nonsense, dressing up a misdemeanor (with expired statue of limitations), in yet another witch hunt.  They are creating a martyr. 

 

 

[tac airlifter]

21 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

 

Don't forget adding Jan 6 to your list 😎😬

[Lord Ratner]

21 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

They are creating a martyr. 

 

On 8/12/2022 at 10:28 PM, Lord Ratner said:

It seems like democrats are hell-bent on getting Trump reelected.

 

This is either some serious 4D chess or they are literally too stupid to breathe. Imagine the insanity of making a lunatic with a martyr complex into a martyr.

I really thought they couldn't be this stupid, but that's the sad part... The people running this country really are. 

[ClearedHot]

[FourFans]

@nsplayrA sincere thank you the specifics behind your stance!  

Also, fully agree about the "biggest shit show"  ...sigh...can Trump just go away, please?

Curious question: Are you familiar with the research and books of Peter Zeihan?

[nsplayr]

5 minutes ago, FourFans said:

Curious question: Are you familiar with the research and books of Peter Zeihan?

Not really, no, sorry 🍻