The Next President is...

[pawnman]

59 minutes ago, brabus said:

Talked to my father in law yesterday, he’s incredulous at the idea that Biden or any Dem could win. He wants trump. He will not listen that trump = best chance of Dem success. He and people like him will fuck us all over, though under the best of intentions. Emotions on both sides of the spectrum are what landed us in the dumpster fire we’re in. Detach and make rational decisions and we can get ourselves out of this. Both Biden and Trump are irrational picks for different reasons. It’s that simple. 

My mother is the same way. She doesn't seem to care that the Dems WANT Trump as the nominee. 

[Pooter]

8 hours ago, Mark1 said:

 

7:44 AM 😂😂😂😂
 

Working in that office must have been bonkers..

Driving to work.. phone starts blowing up 

"oh shit what did he do now"

1hr later

press secretary at an all hands meeting: "he was taking his morning dump and went nuclear on the constitution, how do we spin this"

[Pooter]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

My mother is the same way. She doesn't seem to care that the Dems WANT Trump as the nominee. 

Nothing against anyone's parents (mine are the same way) but I think this shows how emotionally driven the average voter is. The idea of thinking strategically about candidate viability isn't really a thing people do unless they're really into politics or listen to non-mainstream political commentary. 

[nsplayr]

7 hours ago, brabus said:

Both Biden and Trump are irrational picks for different reasons. It’s that simple. 

I'll throw in this opinion...supporting the incumbent President of your preferred party when he's running for reelection is not an irrational pick for relatively party-line voters.

If you are a steady Republican, it made perfect sense to support Trump in 2020. Even if you found him a bit distasteful in 2016 or supported someone else initially in that primary or didn't agree with everything he did in office.

By 2020, he's your party's guy, he's doing Republican things while in office, he's eligible for and interested in being reelected...it's extremely rational for a R voter to punch R again on that ballot. Was he fairly old in 2020? Was he fairly batshit crazy in 2020? I would say yes to both, but I don't begrudge loyal Republicans for voting for Republicans the vast majority of the time, it is what it is.

The exact same rational works for Dems right now. I am a loyal Dem voter and fairly rational.

The emotional thing to do would be to want to jettison an incumbent President who wants to run & is eligible for another term and magically get someone younger & more dynamic. Hell, while I have that magic wand I wanna get rid of Harris too and move on to someone else on the bench (I've listed lost of options I like better before).

BUT, like I said, I'm a relatively rational voter, exactly what you say you want to see. The rational case for a Dem/liberal voter is that Biden is the incumbent, has a track record of winning and governing in a way I generally support, I'm voting for him again in 2024. I do wish he were younger, I would change some policies here and there, I would jettison his VP into the sun and pick a new running mate...but I'm not a wizard, I'm just a guy with one vote and a few dollars here and there to donate.

For my friends on the right, Trump is no longer an incumbent. He has a track record of losing. The GOP should have a real primary for 2024, although TBD because right now Trump is winning very easily.

If y'all want someone else by all means make that happen! I for one as a Democrat do not hope that Trump is the nominee because I think another Trump term would be disastrous for our democratic institutions. He basically was willing to nuke the constitution to stay in office when things didn't go his way and we got saved by the hair on our chins by Mike Pence and some lucky breaks.

Haley, Scott, etc. are fine; I don't "like" them or their policies, but they are normal Republicans that the country is used to. Even DeSantis, who I think sucks very badly, would be better. Best of luck to whatever shreds are left of the anti-Trump right, I legit wish you all luck cleaning up your house.

Edited April 27, 2023 by nsplayr

[nsplayr]

3 hours ago, Pooter said:

Nothing against anyone's parents (mine are the same way) but I think this shows how emotionally driven the average voter is. The idea of thinking strategically about candidate viability isn't really a thing people do unless they're really into politics or listen to non-mainstream political commentary. 

Yea 💯 to all this.

You can either wish everyone was a hyper-logical robot maximizing their expected value on each daily decision, or you can try to understand human beings for how we all are and work within the limitations of attempting to herd millions of emotionally-driven apes toward a decent outcome.

Only one of those strategies is the rational one to pursue!

Edited April 27, 2023 by nsplayr

[HeloDude]

Still waiting on NSplayr to tell us if he thinks there are any democrats in the US House or Senate who are extremists, and if so, who are they.  Unless he only thinks the extremists in the US House or Senate all have an R next to their names? 

[brabus]

@nsplayr I understand your perspective and see the rationale of the baseline argument. I think Biden and those who surround him have made disastrous decisions and emphasized things to the detriment of our country. I think a rational D voter would advocate for another candidate to represent the Dems in 2024 vs. allowing the shit show to continue simply because there’s a D next to his name. If Biden and friends were moderate, then I totally agree with your premise. Bottom line, specific to Biden, it is more emotional than rational to want to him in 2024. Rational = demanding DNC primaries and hoping a better candidate comes out on top. I know that’s an unusual situation for an incumbent, but it’s warranted this round. 

[nsplayr]

24 minutes ago, brabus said:

@nsplayr I understand your perspective and see the rationale of the baseline argument. I think Biden and those who surround him have made disastrous decisions and emphasized things to the detriment of our country. I think a rational D voter would advocate for another candidate to represent the Dems in 2024 vs. allowing the shit show to continue simply because there’s a D next to his name. If Biden and friends were moderate, then I totally agree with your premise. Bottom line, specific to Biden, it is more emotional than rational to want to him in 2024. Rational = demanding DNC primaries and hoping a better candidate comes out on top. I know that’s an unusual situation for an incumbent, but it’s warranted this round. 

I hear ya, but from my perspective as a center-of-mass Democrat, I don't share your feelings on Biden being somehow a uniquely bad representative of my party.

I find Biden to be well within the mainstream of the party, I don't agree that the country is a disaster under his leadership, and there are zero credible challengers. Harris, who sucks FWIW, is on the ticket. Bernie isn't running and endorsed Biden. Other competent members of the party bench are happy in their jobs, support Biden, and aren't running.

His "competition" is a crystal lady and an anti-vax Kennedy fail-son...no thanks. No incumbent President is going to debate a motley crew of fucking morons. There are a dozen other Dems (many of which I would prefer based on age alone!) who if they were in the seat would be extremely happy with having Biden's accomplishment list credited to their name. I firmly believe that a President Klobuchar or President Beshear would love to do basically all of the things Biden has pursued and accomplished.

If you are a conservative, MAGA, libertarian, etc., you probably don't agree with the above and think I'm insane. You don't share the same values as Biden and the Dems and you've had every one of Biden's negatives both real and imagined highlighted to you 24/7 in the media you likely read/watch. Got it. The same happens to Dems with Trump and Bush and everyone else ever in history. Like literally the GOP were on their fainting couches over Bill Clinton even before Monica & I bet today you'd make the argument that if the Dems just went back to their platform from the 90s you'd be more ok with them. Is that an accurate assessment?

So like I said, I'm voting for Biden again despite misgivings about his age. If he were 60, I'm an enthusiastic supporter for his reelection based on his record (as I've detailed previously).

Good talk though, appreciate the back & forth 🍺

[VMFA187]

19 hours ago, nsplayr said:

you've had every one of Biden's negatives both real and imagined highlighted to you 24/7 in the media...

I think there has been plenty that none need to be imagined. 

[brabus]

@nsplayr You’re correct that I cannot understand how several Biden-led actions/policies are OK, let alone good. I accept that’s what you believe. Main points for why I think he has done terribly, and what are apparently “mainstream dem” according to you:

- Not only supporting, but aggressively pushing, a mental health crisis, especially amongst youth

- Purposely, and significantly, degrading domestic energy production/increasing reliance on foreign energy

- Willful dereliction of border security at best, calculated and purposeful border insecurity at worst (a PCF of our drug epidemics going on)

-  Pushing green energy plans that are counter-science, counter-logical, and completely unrealistic. Note: All for green energy exploration and getting better, but not for illogical buffoonery driven by politics instead of reality

- Weaponizing gov agencies against those who aren’t in lock step with party talking points/objectives 

- Extreme focus on exciting and continuing race-based culture wars

- Multiple avenues of attack on individual liberties…he wants an obedient populace, not a country of unique individuals

That’s just off the top of my nugget. I haven’t even touched the significant links he and his family have to our #1 enemy. But I also acknowledge corruption is everywhere, so I don’t think Biden is unique in shit like this. Ultimately, I cannot comprehend why you or anyone rational would support things like above. But you do, and I accept that is reality, even if I wish it wasn’t  

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by brabus

[FourFans]

On 4/27/2023 at 3:58 PM, nsplayr said:

DeSantis, who I think sucks very badly

Can you elaborate that?  Seriously.  I've heard numerous people say "DeSantis Sucks" but not a single one has built a rational reasoned argument to support that statement.

Edited April 28, 2023 by FourFans

[FourFans]

On 4/27/2023 at 3:58 PM, nsplayr said:

a track record of winning

COVID: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-marks-1-million-americans-dead-covid-2022-05-12/

Afghanistan: Do I even need a link?

Economy: check your pre-biden gas costs, interest rates, cost of ANYTHING YOU BUY DAILY compared to a normal CPI over the past 20 years.

China...   FFS.  I quit.

If you look at Biden and see "good leader" or "good for America" you have very likely lost objectivity.

 

On 4/27/2023 at 5:20 PM, nsplayr said:

f you are a conservative, MAGA, libertarian, etc.,

So....to you, a self declared moderate who has a rational fair minded liberal viewpoint: this statement intellectually and emotionally proclaims that anyone who isn't you is wrong. 

Let me say it again: You are declaring that everyone who thinks differently from you is wrong.    

Please mull that over.

NO

Stop your internet response and ACTUALLY THINK about what you just declared from a perspective that isn't yours.  How moderate are you really?

We need you.   Do better.

Edited April 29, 2023 by FourFans

[pawnman]

So, Biden's campaign seems to be going well...

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1652059878452789248?s=20

[FourFans]

On 4/27/2023 at 5:20 PM, nsplayr said:

So like I said, I'm voting for Biden again despite misgivings about his age. If he were 60, I'm an enthusiastic supporter for his reelection based on his record (as I've detailed previously).

Seriously.  The democratic party can do WAY better.  Please.  For the love of our country.  Do not put this guy back in charge for another 4 years.

If you have half a brain, for the love of Pete, AT LEAST wait until there is a ticket before throwing your vote behind someone!

Edited April 29, 2023 by FourFans

[Boomer6]

8 hours ago, brabus said:

@nsplayr You’re correct that I cannot understand how several Biden-led actions/policies are OK, let alone good. I accept that’s what you believe. Main points for why I think he has done terribly, and what are apparently “mainstream dem” according to you:

- Not only supporting, but aggressively pushing, a mental health crisis, especially amongst youth

- Purposely, and significantly, degrading domestic energy production/increasing reliance on foreign energy

- Willful dereliction of border security at best, calculated and purposeful border insecurity at worst (a PCF of our drug epidemics going on)

-  Pushing green energy plans that are counter-science, counter-logical, and completely unrealistic. Note: All for green energy exploration and getting better, but not for illogical buffoonery driven by politics instead of reality

- Weaponizing gov agencies against those who aren’t in lock step with party talking points/objectives 

- Extreme focus on exciting and continuing race-based culture wars

- Multiple avenues of attack on individual liberties…he wants an obedient populace, not a country of unique individuals

That’s just off the top of my nugget. I haven’t even touched the significant links he and his family have to our #1 enemy. But I also acknowledge corruption is everywhere, so I don’t think Biden is unique in shit like this. Ultimately, I cannot comprehend why you or anyone rational would support things like above. But you do, and I accept that is reality, even if I wish it wasn’t  

 

 

 

Curious which response this will garner. The Jules:

 

or the Dude:

[Jayhawker]

Welcome to the 2024 presidential election! Here is your ballot:

O - A walking corpse who basically told the Railroad Unions that they can't have any teeth anymore because "reasons," yet for some reason is painted as Vladimir Lenin's grandson by the right

O - A literal fascist who is running on the platform of "kill queers and deprive women of their rights"

O - A cheeto in a wig who is the only former president in history to be impeached twice, and to be indicted for paying off a pornstar he had an affair with

[dream big]

1 hour ago, Jayhawker said:

O - A literal fascist who is running on the platform of "kill queers and deprive women of their rights"

Who are you referring to?

[brabus]

Legendary troll status…and 100% valid. 
 

[ClearedHot]

What a complete Douche...turns his back on his own grandchild.

[TreeA10]

This is the same guy that said Hunter is the smartest person he knows which should really worry the rest of the freedom loving planet.

[Biff_T]

 

When Hunter smokes crack, he turns into Russell Crowe's character John Nash in a beautiful mind.  However, instead of calculating mathematics in his head like Nash, he films himself banging crack whores.  Smartest dude I know.  

[Biff_T]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/psychologist-testifies-trump-rape-accuser-jean-carroll-elements/story?id=99041556

Angry words.  

Edited May 3, 2023 by Biff_T
I need to sleep more

[Day Man]

3 hours ago, Biff_T said:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/psychologist-testifies-trump-rape-accuser-jean-carroll-elements/story?id=99041556

Everyone has PTSD these days.  I'm tired of this disorder being used by everyone to feel like they are victims.  You got some real bad PTSD lady.   I wonder if she hears fireworks and thinks she's being attacked.  I wonder how much black out drinking she did before she got help.  I wonder if she has a normal sleeping schedule.  I wonder if she's constantly on guard for potential  threats? Does she fear that she might accidently attack someone after a misunderstanding led to her feeling her life was threatened. Did she get into a bunch of sensless fights and arguments while binge drinking? Does she still do that when not taking her meds? Did she look at the face of her loved ones crying as she recovers from an episode.  Did she abuse drugs to feel better?  Does she think about death and killing everyday?  How much sleep did she lose last night? Did wake up alone and in pool of sweat again.  Does she see her dead friends.  Does she look at a homeless man and think that could be her one day without the right help?  My bet is no.  Fuck her and her fake PTSD and fuck anyone claiming they have it for sympathy.

denigrating an alleged rape victim because her trauma isn't traumatic enough for you or fits your personal threshold is a new low.

 

[ClearedHot]

A whistleblower alleges DOJ and the FBI have an unclassified document that describes a criminal scheme between Joe Biden WHEN HE WAS THE SITTING VICE PRESIDENT and a foreign national.  FOXNEWS, NY Post and the National Review are the only ones reporting on it so far (shocking I know).  

"The document, an FBI-generated FD-1023 form, allegedly details an arrangement involving an exchange of money for policy decisions."

A question for our liberal friends on the forum, given the anal probe the FBI, the House and the main stream media gave Trump over the dossier, don't you think this should at least be investigated and reported on?

[Sim]

1 hour ago, Day Man said:

denigrating an alleged rape victim because her trauma isn't traumatic enough for you or fits your personal threshold is a new low.

 

https://billingsreport.com/e-jean-carrolls-story-about-being-raped-by-trump-exactly-matches-2012-episode-of-law-and-order-svu/

Believe all woman! We just don't know what woman is. Do I have to be a cat to know what a cat is?  🤡