The Next President is...

[Danger41]

On 8/19/2023 at 10:10 AM, brabus said:

https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1692282708397863374?s=57&t=kJzkkF_dxqcTfdJgf3sbLQ
 

Really good discussion from Vivek. Even if you hate Tucker, this is worth your time. He actually talks very little (surprising, I know) - it’s mostly Vivek talking. It’s time we have an election that isn’t Trump v Biden (or similar old, rich white dudes). 

I listened to this and the highlight to me was about the 35 minute point where he answers the obvious bait question about the alphabet soup people. Good interview and thanks for posting.

[Blue]

3 hours ago, Pooter said:

https://www.axios.com/2023/08/21/trump-republican-2024-voters-poll

Respondents said they trust trump to tell them the truth more than family members or their religious leaders. 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ 

This has moved past ideological capture and into full blown mental disorder. 

I don't want to interrupt anyone enjoying their daily dose of political rage-porn.

But I've kind of taken to ignoring any "news story" that begins with the following:

• Recent polls say...
• Studies show...
• Experts say...

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

I don't want to interrupt anyone enjoying their daily dose of political rage-porn.

But I've kind of taken to ignoring any "news story" that begins with the following:

• Recent polls say...
• Studies show...
• Experts say...

Fair enough, lots of polling and the reporting on such polls is click bait-ey.
 

But I'm not sure how else you find out what people think if you don't ask them.  Aggregating poll responses is one of the best ways to find out what Americans think as long as the errors are reasonably controlled for through sample size, demographic representation, and unbiased questions. 
 

CBS/Yougov are a reasonably accurate poll source (B+ according to fivethirtyeight.)  So a poll showing trust for any politician over one's own friends/family/religious leader, is a deeply troubling result.  
 

You've got a huge portion of the Republican based captured basically beyond the point of no return. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out with most roads, unfortunately, leading to a democrat in the White House. 

[ViperMan]

On 8/20/2023 at 9:37 AM, brabus said:

I also hated Snowden for years, but there’s a lot to that story that many who hate him don’t actually know. He didn’t just expose a ton of random SAPs, etc, he exposed specific, very illegal, comm collection programs the NSA directed all over, including millions of untargeted Americans and other foreign nationals (as in they collected all their shit as “collateral damage” or “just in case we need it later”). The program was proven to be used for personal gain (agents spying on ex’s and things like that). It was so damning and illegal that congress actually forced change and restricted our intelligence gathering on Joe Blow, which is a good thing. 

So that’s just to say I can understand the logic of the action, while also not condoning the mishandling of classified/the method of whistleblowing Snowden took. He did a wrong action to expose incredibly wrong and illegal govt actions vs. millions. So perhaps this is a case of two wrongs make a right, the right being pardon because of the proven govt corruption and illegal shit that was at least attempted to be solved only because of his actions. Would I pardon him? I don’t know, but I can see why someone might. And that’s why this topic does not move the needle for me on Vivek or any other candidate who may say the same. 

Based on what you wrote, it's safe to say we have diametrically opposed views on who and what Snowden is and we will not likely reach agreement. I think he is a sock-puppet Russian spy who was specifically designed to take advantage of a certain element within the American psyche that looks to defend the concept of liberty and has a certain default level of distrust in the government - all of which I can understand to some degree, and which I can support given our country's founding on July 4th. It makes him the perfect psyop. You can also look at the precipitous slide in relations between major world powers in the last 10 years (i.e. since 2013 when the revelations happened) and the theft of other computer-hacking tools from the CIA/NSA/etc, which have certainly been used against us to unknown effect and draw a not-so-indistinct line between the idea that a "patriot" traitor inspired other people in positions of trust within our government to betray it. How were those tools "stolen"? Do we even know? Are they being used against us right now?

The bit about how the program was used for personal gain/vendetta carries the same structure as the "guns kill people" argument from the left. Any tool can be used or abused by people with an agenda - that doesn't negate the necessity of the tool. And in any case, the NSA isn't collecting a database of your dick-pics. Even if they were, based purely on volume, they'd only be able to look at a single pic for no more than .000069 seconds.

You call what he did whistle-blowing. I call what he did treason. I don't think those NSA programs were illegal. I think the Russians/Chinese/terrorists, probably already had some general idea that they were going on, but the net effect was to inspire a distrust in the US institutional apparatus...how's that working for us today? So yeah, when Vivek says he would pardon Snowden, he loses me - because it shows me his level of discernment/big picture SA. He has missed the point of Snowden - which was to inspire distrust of our government - not to disclose government programs that basically amount to the government collecting data that everyone was willingly giving to there phone-service provider anyway.

[lloyd christmas]

So, who got to Hunter when all this first started?  It’s pretty obvious that some bad actor on the word stage caught wind of the “US Vice President’s drug addict son”.   Hunter quickly became the easy target for the bad guys to exploit and Hunter quickly sold out.  Joe wasn’t initially involved but got roped in.  And then things got out of control. 

[brabus]

2 hours ago, Pooter said:

You've got a huge portion of the Republican based captured basically beyond the point of no return

Same for the left. It’s disheartening to see it happen on both sides. To the polling topic, we’re not too far down the road from a lot of polling showing a “red wave” in the midterms…it should have been a bloodbath for the Dems, until it wasn’t. The solution is we need candidates who are closer to center and able to actually let the other side speak while actually listening. Whether that person is slightly left or right of center almost doesn’t matter, we just don’t need more candidates who are massively pegged to one side of the spectrum - that’s exactly what we’ve been seeing for too long.

[brabus]

@ViperMan Fair enough, thanks for the reply. Only thing to add…
 

36 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

I don't think those NSA programs were illegal

The courts did in fact find the NSA illegally violated the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. So yeah, they were illegal, at least in how they were being used. 

[Pooter]

13 minutes ago, brabus said:

Same for the left. It’s disheartening to see it happen on both sides. To the polling topic, we’re not too far down the road from a lot of polling showing a “red wave” in the midterms…it should have been a bloodbath for the Dems, until it wasn’t. The solution is we need candidates who are closer to center and able to actually let the other side speak while actually listening. Whether that person is slightly left or right of center almost doesn’t matter, we just don’t need more candidates who are massively pegged to one side of the spectrum - that’s exactly what we’ve been seeing for too long.

Agree on the polarization 100%. But I think the democrat base would pivot to support another candidate if Biden were to step aside.  Sure the Dems are ideologically captured in some batshit positions but I don't see the same level of loyalty to an individual person like you do with the right base and trump. There are multiple good choices on the right who would easily beat Biden, but it'll never happen when you have 40% of the country ready to Thelma and Louise off the cliff with trump. 
 

[uhhello]

52 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Agree on the polarization 100%. But I think the democrat base would pivot to support another candidate if Biden were to step aside.  Sure the Dems are ideologically captured in some batshit positions but I don't see the same level of loyalty to an individual person like you do with the right base and trump. There are multiple good choices on the right who would easily beat Biden, but it'll never happen when you have 40% of the country ready to Thelma and Louise off the cliff with trump. 
 

Who is the Dem alternative.  They have to have someone in the wings because they know he ain't going to make it to the end of the year.  No chance.  

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, lloyd christmas said:

So, who got to Hunter when all this first started?  It’s pretty obvious that some bad actor on the word stage caught wind of the “US Vice President’s drug addict son”.   Hunter quickly became the easy target for the bad guys to exploit and Hunter quickly sold out.  Joe wasn’t initially involved but got roped in.  And then things got out of control. 

joes been involved for a long, long time

[brabus]

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

There are multiple good choices on the right who would easily beat Biden, but it'll never happen when you have 40% of the country ready to Thelma and Louise off the cliff with trump. 

All we can hope for is you’re wrong, but I understand completely why you feel that way. It’s frustrating how many GOP voters can’t pull their heads out of trump’s ass to see the bigger picture. Hopefully that demographic sucks at voting in the primaries and the rest of us vote. It fundamentally comes down to, do you want to win, or do you want 4 more years of disaster? If you want to win, Trump’s the worst horse to pick.

[SurelySerious]

What his followers don’t realize at this point is he’s out there “campaigning” to fundraise for his defense fund- normal ego stroking aside.

[dream big]

We’ll see how tonight goes, I think Trump is an idiot for skipping the debate. I agree Trump needs to go ASAP because I can’t take 4 more years of this blithering fool or his incompetence filled DOD. 

[lloyd christmas]

A large part of me wants Trump to win just to beat the damn system.  He is an ass.  That is for sure.  But, he’s been attacked at every turn for years, often with fabricated stories and complete falsehoods. I’d love to see him continue to take on everything that I see that is wrong with our government and media.  I despise the elites and their double standards in this country to my core.  He’s the only one I see who is fully in the ring with them.  I would like to see him win.  And I would like to see things change.  

And then what if he wins?  We get an even bigger ass with a bigger, louder chip on his shoulder.  We get the other side who will become even more unhinged and desperate to ruin anything and everything he does.  Not seeing any of that outweighs my desire to see him win the next election.  

At this point, I want to see him beat the system in court.  Not in politics. 

I like Ramaswamy.  I’ve been listening to a lot of what he has to say.  He’s certainly refreshing and isn’t part of the system.  

[uhhello]

1 hour ago, lloyd christmas said:

A large part of me wants Trump to win just to beat the damn system.  He is an ass.  That is for sure.  But, he’s been attacked at every turn for years, often with fabricated stories and complete falsehoods. I’d love to see him continue to take on everything that I see that is wrong with our government and media.  I despise the elites and their double standards in this country to my core.  He’s the only one I see who is fully in the ring with them.  I would like to see him win.  And I would like to see things change.  

And then what if he wins?  We get an even bigger ass with a bigger, louder chip on his shoulder.  We get the other side who will become even more unhinged and desperate to ruin anything and everything he does.  Not seeing any of that outweighs my desire to see him win the next election.  

At this point, I want to see him beat the system in court.  Not in politics. 

I like Ramaswamy.  I’ve been listening to a lot of what he has to say.  He’s certainly refreshing and isn’t part of the system.  

I was all about trump and the 'change' i hoped he would bring to DC.  He got in and not much if anything really changed.  Naïve of me.  I like Vik because he can have conversations with full sentences and put reporters and others in their place without emotion.  

[brabus]

2 hours ago, lloyd christmas said:

At this point, I want to see him beat the system in court.  Not in politics.

Are what ifs open? What if trump told all of his supporters he’s not going to run, he endorses Desantis or Vivek, and he goes after the corrupt establishment as a “civilian” while Desantis or Vivek goes after it as a politician. The team up for a 2-pronged attack would be awesome…but instead trump is an egotistical asshat who just can’t think beyond himself. He could do a lot of good for this country from outside DC, but he can’t see that. 

[Sua Sponte]

4 hours ago, lloyd christmas said:

A large part of me wants Trump to win just to beat the damn system.  He is an ass.  That is for sure.  But, he’s been attacked at every turn for years, often with fabricated stories and complete falsehoods. I’d love to see him continue to take on everything that I see that is wrong with our government and media.  I despise the elites and their double standards in this country to my core.  He’s the only one I see who is fully in the ring with them.  I would like to see him win.  And I would like to see things change.  

And then what if he wins?  We get an even bigger ass with a bigger, louder chip on his shoulder.  We get the other side who will become even more unhinged and desperate to ruin anything and everything he does.  Not seeing any of that outweighs my desire to see him win the next election.  

At this point, I want to see him beat the system in court.  Not in politics. 

I like Ramaswamy.  I’ve been listening to a lot of what he has to say.  He’s certainly refreshing and isn’t part of the system.  

He's not beating the Feds, homie. Even if he was elected POTUS and pardoned himself, which will happen, he's still on the hook for the state charges. Between Trump and Biden looks like South Park got it right with the Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich episode.

[disgruntledemployee]

Why do you want Trump to be your knight in shit armor?  He ain't it, man.  Find someone else.  Be like the people that liked Hootie and the Blowfish or Nickelback on Monday, then hated 'em by Friday.

We rightfully chastise Biden for dicking up the role of Commander in Chief.  Trump dicked it up too.  To me, it's like trump took a shit on your doorstep, rang your doorbell, took your American flag, wiped his ass with it, and dropped it at your feet, ask you what are you gonna do about it, flips you double birds, and walks off.

And that is who you want back in office?

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, brabus said:

Are what ifs open? What if trump told all of his supporters he’s not going to run, he endorses Desantis or Vivek, and he goes after the corrupt establishment as a “civilian” while Desantis or Vivek goes after it as a politician. The team up for a 2-pronged attack would be awesome…but instead trump is an egotistical asshat who just can’t think beyond himself. He could do a lot of good for this country from outside DC, but he can’t see that. 

Here's a what-if that I think Trump is too egotistical for...he campaigns deep into the primary. All the dems focus their attacks on Trump. Then at some point he just drops and and endorses someone (probably Vivek given how similar the talking points are).

 

[lloyd christmas]

1 hour ago, disgruntledemployee said:

And that is who you want back in office?

Please reread my post if you’re referencing me.  

[BashiChuni]

[Sim]

[Biff_T]

[Day Man]

lol

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/22/a-key-witness-in-the-trump-classified-docs-case-changed-his-testimony-after-switching-lawyers-special-counsel-says-.html

[brabus]

7 hours ago, pawnman said:

Here's a what-if that I think Trump is too egotistical for...he campaigns deep into the primary. All the dems focus their attacks on Trump. Then at some point he just drops and and endorses someone (probably Vivek given how similar the talking points are).

 

Interesting thought…possible, but unlikely.