ClearedHot Posted January 3 Posted January 3 27 minutes ago, FourFans said: I find it interesting how few people recognize the asian situation from the asian perspective. I find it interesting how few people recognize the Chinese situation from the Chinese perspective. All too many folks think the Chinese are acting like expansionist trying to conquer the world starting with Taiwan. While they do want to be a great power and their actions in Africa, South and Central America are more expansionist, when it comes to Taiwan they a completely different motivation and one you might actually agree with if we put it in U.S. terms. Imagine if there was a big civil war in the united states and you kicked the other side's ass and chased them all the way to California. With the help of another peer nation the surviving army got on boats and airplanes and took over Hawaii. Would we view Hawaii as anything other than U.S. territory? Would we be upset if the peer nation signed a defense of Hawaii pact with the invaders? In simple terms that is what happened and why they want Taiwan back. 2
SurelySerious Posted January 3 Posted January 3 I find it interesting how few people recognize the Chinese situation from the Chinese perspective. All too many folks think the Chinese are acting like expansionist trying to conquer the world starting with Taiwan. While they do want to be a great power and their actions in Africa, South and Central America are more expansionist, when it comes to Taiwan they a completely different motivation and one you might actually agree with if we put it in U.S. terms. Imagine if there was a big civil war in the united states and you kicked the other side's ass and chased them all the way to California. With the help of another peer nation the surviving army got on boats and airplanes and took over Hawaii. Would we view Hawaii as anything other than U.S. territory? Would we be upset if the peer nation signed a defense of Hawaii pact with the invaders? In simple terms that is what happened and why they want Taiwan back.Don’t forget about the global chip foundries and economic gains they can’t control because it isn’t theirs. I fully understand the argument you presented, but because I’m an American asshole I think Taiwan is a hilarious highlight to the PRC’s second tier global status. They are trying the Japan 1940 playbook to expand their exclusive economic clout…but don’t even have a handle 100 miles off their own coast. Makes me happy. I’m sure it will come back at us at some point unless we significantly change course to maintain our global status, but at least I am amused for now.
ViperMan Posted January 3 Posted January 3 53 minutes ago, ClearedHot said: I find it interesting how few people recognize the Chinese situation from the Chinese perspective. All too many folks think the Chinese are acting like expansionist trying to conquer the world starting with Taiwan. While they do want to be a great power and their actions in Africa, South and Central America are more expansionist, when it comes to Taiwan they a completely different motivation and one you might actually agree with if we put it in U.S. terms. Imagine if there was a big civil war in the united states and you kicked the other side's ass and chased them all the way to California. With the help of another peer nation the surviving army got on boats and airplanes and took over Hawaii. Would we view Hawaii as anything other than U.S. territory? Would we be upset if the peer nation signed a defense of Hawaii pact with the invaders? In simple terms that is what happened and why they want Taiwan back. Soviet perspective. I think you meant to say Soviet perspective. Let's "re-imagine" that civil war being fomented, enabled, and supported by a neighboring superpower with a Communist ideology. Beginning in the early 1900s, with the help and assistance of that greater superpower, they begin undermining your democratic / nationalist / republican movement whilst simultaneously taking advantage of the chaos imparted by the second world war and a maniacal enemy that was running roughshod over your territory for the last 10 years. Now, "imagine" losing that war to said forces. This is not nearly as simple as you imagine it or as simple as your analogy presents it. You can argue that the US and USSR should have stayed out. Neither of us did. In the end, this is still about what it has always been about: opposing Communism and authoritarians.
Clark Griswold Posted January 3 Posted January 3 I find it interesting how few people recognize the Chinese situation from the Chinese perspective. All too many folks think the Chinese are acting like expansionist trying to conquer the world starting with Taiwan. While they do want to be a great power and their actions in Africa, South and Central America are more expansionist, when it comes to Taiwan they a completely different motivation and one you might actually agree with if we put it in U.S. terms. Imagine if there was a big civil war in the united states and you kicked the other side's ass and chased them all the way to California. With the help of another peer nation the surviving army got on boats and airplanes and took over Hawaii. Would we view Hawaii as anything other than U.S. territory? Would we be upset if the peer nation signed a defense of Hawaii pact with the invaders? In simple terms that is what happened and why they want Taiwan back.You have a point well but over 70 years has past since the end of the Chinese Civil War, they have defended their island and they have established their national and cultural identity separate from the authoritarian power on the mainland When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.This will suck when it eventually goes kinetic, we will be attacked physically on our homeland by them and we will be significantly poorer even if we win initially, they will come back for a round two if that happens but the price is worse if we do nothing Computer chips, sovereign debt… whatever, it is who leads this planet that is going to be determined by a conflict over Taiwan We can pretend it’s not, we can say even if we lose a war over it we will still prevail but I don’t think so. Vietnam, Afghanistan were not the same animal as this would be overt direct confrontation with our rival. If we fight and we lose Taiwan (by we I mean the fractious coalition that is the Free World) then the Islamic world, the Global South and others will cut deals with the PRC to their likingLike it or not we have to be able to win and to recognize yes we are sticking our nose around the world in a dispute that a point can be made we shouldn’t but there is time when we should, the distinction between those is not always clear like art vs pornography but you know when you see itThis is one of those timesSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 1 1
HeloDude Posted January 4 Posted January 4 In other news…the shenanigans of electing a Speaker seems to be over (and was much less of a debacle compared to last year), so it seems everything is in order for Trump to be certified. And Merchan plans on sentencing Trump next week, but has already said it (probably) won’t be prison. “Merchan wrote in his decision that he is not likely to "impose any sentence of incarceration," but rather a sentence of an "unconditional discharge," which means there would be no punishment imposed.” And once again the progressives actually thought they had Trump where they wanted him… https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-york-judge-sets-trump-sentencing-days-before-inauguration
tac airlifter Posted January 4 Posted January 4 It’s official: Biden is the worst POTUS in our nations history. 5 2 3
SurelySerious Posted January 4 Posted January 4 It’s official: Biden is the worst POTUS in our nations history.You’re right, he’s not left or corrupt enough! Where’s Bernie to save the left?
brabus Posted January 5 Posted January 5 I guess the presidential MOF is now worth less than the bronze star every behind-the-fence shoe clerk CC/Chief gets down range. What a joke. 4
Lawman Posted January 5 Posted January 5 I guess the presidential MOF is now worth less than the bronze star every behind-the-fence shoe clerk CC/Chief gets down range. What a joke.Trump should just give it to Elon on day 1 to force the critics to admit all this crap is a sham.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1
brabus Posted January 5 Posted January 5 @Negatory I’m fairly positive Lawman is not trying to argue there’s tons of great billionaires on “his side” (whatever that means), and is simply highlighting the stupidity of this whole charade/medal, regardless of political affiliation (he just said Trump giving it to Elon would help cement the whole thing as a sham). Why is it you read something, engage turbo douche mode, and go on an unhinged rant that wildly misrepresents the person you’re replying to. For your own mental health, recommend some introspection and find a way to turn the blind, illogical, and generally unprovoked rage down a few notches. You’ll feel better and your communication skills probably would improve. 4 2 2
ViperMan Posted January 5 Posted January 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, Negatory said: Or maybe - just maybe - Americans should pause this fake party war and realize that billionaires shouldn’t be elevated to some level above the common man in political influence or government service. Conservatives have the exact same kinds of people, the Peter Thiels, the Koch brothers, the Uihliens, Ken Griffin, Jeff Yasses, Charles Schwab, Elon Musk. Maybe we should reject it all instead of saying our shitty billionaire is shittier than ours. But that’s confusing to the folks that literally elected the billionaire class to run themselves 😂 It’s a race to the bottom with some of you guys, eh? Yet another misfire. No one has a problem with billionaires per se. We have a problem with certain billionaire's objectives. See the following: Bill Gates' climate / clean meat / no meat / spray vaccine efforts, etc George Soros' bank-rolling all manner of "grass roots" campaigns to modify society, wage lawfare, BLM riots, et al Peter Thiel and Elon Musk aren't trying to dismantle our sovereignty or take away any of our rights. See the difference? These conversations would be more productive if you'd come to terms with your oppositions' actual POV. Edited January 5 by ViperMan 5
Lord Ratner Posted January 5 Posted January 5 2 hours ago, brabus said: @Negatory Why is it you read something, engage turbo douche mode, and go on an unhinged rant that wildly misrepresents the person you’re replying to. It distracts from his track record of being wrong. 1
ViperMan Posted January 6 Posted January 6 15 minutes ago, disgruntledemployee said: Happy January 6th. Cheers! Pffffft. How could I forget lol. I remember it was only a couple of years ago the Dems were charging hard to codify Jan 6th as the second coming of Sept 11th. Nary a peep today. Maybe sanity still has a chance.
M2 Posted January 6 Posted January 6 Bye bye Trudeau! He was gone anyway, but this way he can blame Trump! https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trudeau-to-resign-as-voters-sour-on-his-vision-for-canada/ar-AA1x2NfD 2 1
HeloDude Posted January 7 Posted January 7 On 1/5/2025 at 8:35 AM, Negatory said: Or maybe - just maybe - Americans should pause this fake party war and realize that billionaires shouldn’t be elevated to some level above the common man in political influence or government service. Conservatives have the exact same kinds of people, the Peter Thiels, the Koch brothers, the Uihliens, Ken Griffin, Jeff Yasses, Charles Schwab, Elon Musk. Maybe we should reject it all instead of saying our shitty billionaire is shittier than ours. But that’s confusing to the folks that literally elected the billionaire class to run themselves 😂 It’s a race to the bottom with some of you guys, eh? Says the guy who supported the candidate whose campaign outspent Trump 3-1… 1
Clayton Bigsby Posted January 7 Posted January 7 23 hours ago, M2 said: Bye bye Trudeau! He was gone anyway, but this way he can blame Trump! https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trudeau-to-resign-as-voters-sour-on-his-vision-for-canada/ar-AA1x2NfD Trudeau’s just opening himself up for the Governor job. Probably gonna take some days off for a dip in the Gulf of America first. 1
Day Man Posted January 7 Posted January 7 buy? doubt it Quote “I’m not going to commit to that,” Trump said, when asked if he would rule out the use of the military. “It might be that you’ll have to do something. The Panama Canal is vital to our country.” He added, “We need Greenland for national security purposes.”
FourFans Posted January 7 Posted January 7 45 minutes ago, Day Man said: buy? doubt it We could call it Operation Just Cuz 1 2
gearhog Posted January 7 Posted January 7 12 minutes ago, Negatory said: Don’t worry I’ll jump off and remove myself from this forum Haha. What's more embarrassing for you? Announcing to everyone that you're quitting the forum, or being too weak to actually do it? 1 3 1
HeloDude Posted January 8 Posted January 8 3 hours ago, Negatory said: Don’t worry I’ll jump off and remove myself from this forum 2
Biff_T Posted January 8 Posted January 8 On 1/6/2025 at 11:28 AM, M2 said: Bye bye Trudeau! Trudeau looks like he could be a quarter gerbil. 1 1
ClearedHot Posted January 10 Posted January 10 On 1/7/2025 at 1:25 PM, Day Man said: buy? doubt it Indeed...I think that sent some shockwaves through the capitals of multiple countries. To say the Chinese control the Panama Canal is incorrect. However, like everywhere else China is expanding their influence through investment, and coercion. Hong Kong-based CK Hutchison Holdings manages two ports at the canal's entrances AND Chinese firms are funding construction of a new bridge over the canal to the tune of over $1 billion. I think his comments are a more a reflection of the YUGE cost increases to use the canal and the impact to U.s> warship transits. A very long and complicated story of drought, reserved slots and auctions on said spots that no one wants to read but in short they are DOUBLING their rates in 2025. With 72% of all Panama Canal traffic feeding in to the U.S. Trade and economic system, Trump is right to say it is impacting us more that other countries and with prices doubling that seems a bit unfair especially when we built the canal. Greenland...that is a Crazy Ivan, I would have thought that was more of an issue during the cold war. I am sure many of the aviators on this forum have flown through and gotten gas in Greenland, we have never been denied access. My biggest concern from the bluster is the second order effects...does that give Xi Jinping ground to stand on with regard to taking back Taiwan?
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