The Next President is...

[Boomer6]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

I get what you're saying, but I will agree with you only once his plans start failing. Right now it's hard to argue that he doesn't have the most effective first weeks of presidency, maybe of any president ever. 

I've read several articles stating that the terms Mexico and Canada agreed to were already, to some extent, coordinated under the Biden admin. The bias on fox and cnn is so bad I take it all with a huge grain of salt. Time will tell if we get good effects.

Edited 5 hours ago by Boomer6

[HeloDude]

4 minutes ago, disgruntledemployee said:

Bud, I don't want to bet that he does it.  I don't want him trying to make that happen at all.  We don't need more reason for the ME to put their hate upon us.  If he does, I imagine Marines in barracks in Beirut. And then we have to respond.  And down the rabbit hole we go.

Trump pledged America First.  Why can he just stick to that?  What happens in Gaza pretty much stays there, save the silly students that stage a protest at Berkeley.  Why does he need to stick our nose in their shit?  What's the goal, stop the flow of Gazan fentanyl?  Increase the flow of Gazan oil?  What is the US vital strategic importance of Gaza?

Thus, I want enough Americans, especially MAGAs, to say, WTF dude.

So you’re so worried that he’ll do it (because you must think he will), but yet you don’t want to bet on your prediction coming true?  When is this going to happen?…that way we can all call you out on your nonsense when it doesn’t happen.
 

Dude, you’re pretty emotional right now (again).  I recommend you sit a few plays out, seriously.

[disgruntledemployee]

1 minute ago, HeloDude said:

So you’re so worried that he’ll do it (because you must think he will), but yet you don’t want to bet on your prediction coming true?  When is this going to happen?…that way we can all call you out on your nonsense when it doesn’t happen.
 

Dude, you’re pretty emotional right now (again).  I recommend you sit a few plays out, seriously.

I use strong language because its required for fucktarded Trump when he steps on his dick.  Maybe you're OK with his antics.  Maybe you have a line, maybe you don't.  I would hope you have a tolerance level for stupid shit.  Maybe. 

Here's Rand Paul.  His trip wire was crossed on this, so I'm not the only one.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/rand-paul-slams-trumps-gaza-plan-after-opposing-tariffs-i-thought-we-voted-america-first/

I'll go back to sippin cervezas at the pool.  Good luck to us, looks like we'll need it.

[HeloDude]

5 minutes ago, disgruntledemployee said:

I use strong language because its required for fucktarded Trump when he steps on his dick.  Maybe you're OK with his antics.  Maybe you have a line, maybe you don't.  I would hope you have a tolerance level for stupid shit.  Maybe. 

Here's Rand Paul.  His trip wire was crossed on this, so I'm not the only one.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/rand-paul-slams-trumps-gaza-plan-after-opposing-tariffs-i-thought-we-voted-america-first/

I'll go back to sippin cervezas at the pool.  Good luck to us, looks like we'll need it.

You can’t even provide a prediction of when you’ll think this will happen…but yet you’re actually worried it will happen.  So yes, you’re just being emotional.  It’s easy for me, I’m not concerned at all that it will happen.  

[gearhog]

16 minutes ago, disgruntledemployee said:

I use strong language because its required for fucktarded Trump when he steps on his dick.  Maybe you're OK with his antics.  Maybe you have a line, maybe you don't.  I would hope you have a tolerance level for stupid shit.  Maybe. 

Here's Rand Paul.  His trip wire was crossed on this, so I'm not the only one.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/rand-paul-slams-trumps-gaza-plan-after-opposing-tariffs-i-thought-we-voted-america-first/

I'll go back to sippin cervezas at the pool.  Good luck to us, looks like we'll need it.

False. You use strong language because you're emotionally triggered by Trump.

Be sure to tune in today at 3pm when he signs the executive order banning men in women's sports. I hope your reaction is as equally entertaining.

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, Boomer6 said:

I've read several articles stating that the terms Mexico and Canada agreed to were already, to some extent, coordinated under the Biden admin. The bias on fox and cnn is so bad I take it all with a huge grain of salt. Time will tell if we get good effects.

Sure they were. Doing a lot of heavy lifting with "to some extent."

 

Half of the problems between the United States and every country on the planet is that nobody is doing what they said they would do. NATO it's exhibit A. If the only thing Donald Trump accomplishes while in office is to make every country we deal with actually start living up to their word, he will be the single most successful president of all time. But I suspect that is an unreachable bar. 

 

Either way, as more of his "crazy" posturing yields results, we're going to see a whole lot of shifting from "What Donald Trump is doing is dangerous to the stability of our country and the world community" to "Actually everything that Donald Trump is doing was really happening under the Democrats, he's just taking credit."

That's why the American people reelected the insane orange clown after getting rid of him in 2020... Because the Democrats were already mostly doing it anyways.

Uh huh.

[17D_guy]

20 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Sure they were. Doing a lot of heavy lifting with "to some extent."

 

Half of the problems between the United States and every country on the planet is that nobody is doing what they said they would do. NATO it's exhibit A. If the only thing Donald Trump accomplishes while in office is to make every country we deal with actually start living up to their word, he will be the single most successful president of all time. But I suspect that is an unreachable bar. 

 

Either way, as more of his "crazy" posturing yields results, we're going to see a whole lot of shifting from "What Donald Trump is doing is dangerous to the stability of our country and the world community" to "Actually everything that Donald Trump is doing was really happening under the Democrats, he's just taking credit."

That's why the American people reelected the insane orange clown after getting rid of him in 2020... Because the Democrats were already mostly doing it anyways.

Uh huh.

I can't speak to Mexico...because they could do more. I think a wall is stupid, but more "evil gov't employees 😁" in CBP and more tech to protect that area I'm good with.

Canada however, reading their own press release what they committed to on Dec 17 seems to list everything "surrendered" by the Trump tariff tiff. Outside the "Fent Czar" being new, and last I saw less than 50lbs came through the great white north last year.

Edited 4 hours ago by 17D_guy
been looking at spreadsheets all day, forgot how to english...

[Lord Ratner]

12 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

I can't speak to Mexico...because they could do more. I think a wall is stupid, but more "evil gov't employees 😁" in CBP and more tech to protect that area I'm good with.

Canada however, reading their own press release what they committed to on Dec 17 seems to list everything "surrendered" by the Trump tariff tiff. Outside the "Fent Czar" being new, and last I saw less than 50lbs came through the great white north last year.

There is an infinitesimal chance that we know what was actually agreed to, or will any time soon. People are ignoring everything Donald Trump has said over the years about how he negotiates. This is one of the reasons why he does so well in the Middle East, because he understands the concept of "saving face." Anyone who's done Air Force pme should be familiar with the difference between high context and low context interactions. America is a traditionally low context society existing in a world of high context allies and enemies.

 

I tried using this negotiating tactic in our Union during the final weeks of signing the 2023 collective bargaining agreement. Our board of directors was, to put it lightly, flailing. I convinced them to put forward a list of demands that would immediately end negotiations and be pushed to the membership. I think it had eight or 10 things on it. The idea, when I pitched it to them, was that they should anticipate getting three to five things on the list and calling it a day. They could brag to the pilots that they secured more that gains, and the company could go back to their board of directors and show how even though the union had a list of 10 demands, the company resisted over half of them.

 

Of course, pilots being the absolute dog shit negotiators that they are, half the board decided that they could only declare victory if they got everything on the list, and the other half panicked and decided that if they didn't abandon the list entirely they were going to somehow get no contract at all. So the plan only ended up barely working thanks to United Airlines. But the concept is the same. Give everyone at the table something to go back and brag to their people about. 

[disgruntledemployee]

2 hours ago, gearhog said:

False. You use strong language because you're emotionally triggered by Trump.

Be sure to tune in today at 3pm when he signs the executive order banning men in women's sports. I hope your reaction is as equally entertaining.

If you're not emotional charged by the possiblity of expending American blood by an occupation of Gaza, you're no better than the asshole generals/pols that push these fights. If Trump wants to occupy Gaza, his kids need to cowboy up and join the ranks and stand the post.  And if you feel the fight is right, find a way and join them.

PS. Trans should not be in women sports.  I so wanted Olympic refs to DQ the trans that was beating up girls.  But that's not what you wanted to hear, so Im'ma dick.

PPS. Next, you'll be saying Trump should be President for life and that we should stop following the Constitution.

Maga Hard

Out

[disgruntledemployee]

46 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

There is an infinitesimal chance that we know what was actually agreed to, or will any time soon. People are ignoring everything Donald Trump has said over the years about how he negotiates. This is one of the reasons why he does so well in the Middle East, because he understands the concept of "saving face." Anyone who's done Air Force pme should be familiar with the difference between high context and low context interactions. America is a traditionally low context society existing in a world of high context allies and enemies.

 

I tried using this negotiating tactic in our Union during the final weeks of signing the 2023 collective bargaining agreement. Our board of directors was, to put it lightly, flailing. I convinced them to put forward a list of demands that would immediately end negotiations and be pushed to the membership. I think it had eight or 10 things on it. The idea, when I pitched it to them, was that they should anticipate getting three to five things on the list and calling it a day. They could brag to the pilots that they secured more that gains, and the company could go back to their board of directors and show how even though the union had a list of 10 demands, the company resisted over half of them.

 

Of course, pilots being the absolute dog shit negotiators that they are, half the board decided that they could only declare victory if they got everything on the list, and the other half panicked and decided that if they didn't abandon the list entirely they were going to somehow get no contract at all. So the plan only ended up barely working thanks to United Airlines. But the concept is the same. Give everyone at the table something to go back and brag to their people about. 

So you think his tactics are to loudmouth, get reactions, maybe make some negotiated progress, then back it off?  What happens when the tactics fail?  What happens when the opposition has his ego dialed in, calls the bluff and doesn't do his bidding? 

Good chat.

[Swizzle]

3 hours ago, GrndPndr said:

It sounds like you know what it will look like (in Gaza) under the Trump management of Gaza.  Can you please share with us, what it looks like to you (bases, troops, bulldozers or hotels, just what?)

Easy...everything will be, or have, gold as well as have his name on it.

[ClearedHot]

3 hours ago, gearhog said:

Be sure to tune in today at 3pm when he signs the executive order banning men in women's sports. I hope your reaction is as equally entertaining.

 

[Lord Ratner]

45 minutes ago, disgruntledemployee said:

So you think his tactics are to loudmouth, get reactions, maybe make some negotiated progress, then back it off?  What happens when the tactics fail?  What happens when the opposition has his ego dialed in, calls the bluff and doesn't do his bidding? 

Good chat.

That's a small part of what I think his tactics are. You left out the many and varied ways that America has to exert pressure. Tariffs for example. Bombing the everlasting shit out of enemy infrastructure. I absolutely believe we would have put tariffs on Mexico and Canada if they didn't play along. Still might. That's not the end of the world for anybody, and Trump will look strong (to everyone except for the people who refuse to acknowledge him as anything other than the devil).

 

You have to enter a negotiation knowing what winning looks like and what losing looks like. You also have to be willing to walk away. The trick is to come up with more than one definition of victory, especially since you don't enter the negotiation knowing exactly what the other side wants or needs. When you have multiple end states that you can consider victory, you can adapt based on your growing knowledge of what the other side of the table is after, what they're willing to lose, and what they can't afford to lose. It's dynamic, and the biggest problem people make when negotiating is acting as though the strategy is set before walking into the room. You've lost before you've begun that way.

 

I don't know you, so obviously I don't know your disposition or negotiating ability. But this isn't a particularly clever or complicated one. 

 

Start by kicking the door in. "We're going to take over Gaza and do everything the Israelis have dreamed of for the last 60 years. BUT, just in case you thought I was giving Netanyahu and early Hanukkah gift, it's going to be American land, not Israeli Land."

 

Now you've got every leader in the Middle East paying attention. First off, every single person with an IQ higher than a shoe size knows that removing the Palestinians from Gaza and dumping them somewhere else solves the Gaza problem forever. There's no easy way back in there, and the rest of the world will only pretend to care until the next trip to the grocery store or Trump's next press conference. The dirty little secret has always been that no one gives two flying fucks about Palestine, other than as a tool of leverage against the US and Israel. Now that half of the Middle East is trying to align with Israel against Iran, the Palestinians have far less support than they used to. As long as the Israelis or the Americans don't slaughter the Gazans, no one is going to go to war against us to defend their rights to live in Gaza. 

 

This is where you stay flexible. I suspect what he's trying to do is get Jordan and Egypt and Saudi Arabia to sweep in and take over the management of Palestine. No one cares when Arab dictators kill Arab protesters; as long as it's not the Israelis policing things, and they won't have to if Saudi Arabia steps in, then a lot of the problems are once again solved. I mean he even said that Jordan and Egypt were on board. I don't believe that they are, I doubt they were even warned ahead of time, but now they have to pretend like they were in on some sort of planning for this or it's going to make them look like the president of the United States is just walking all over them. That's another key component of negotiating, when you say sensational shit, it's best to say something that the other side doesn't want to deny. Look at how Netanyahu responded. 

 

Now let's say, like you suggested, that they just call his bluff. Here come the tariffs. And we cut off aid to the Middle East, at least the countries that aren't playing along, and every single one of them requires us in some way. More so now than ever. All of a sudden, just like Canada and Mexico, we've got common ground and a quickly resolved misunderstanding. Or maybe they call that bluff too, okay, throw another pressure point or two out there. The more of them that are rejected, the more justification you build for doing exactly what Trump said, relocate the Palestinians in Gaza (I suggest moving them all to the West Bank and creating a unified Palestine that the world can then ignore forever), and turn Gaza over to Israel. 

 

That's what should happen anyways. 

 

But the point is, there are a shitload of outcomes that Trump can consider a victory, because the status quo is so unfathomably catastrophic. It's almost difficult to imagine how the situation would be worse, other than of course by having hundreds or thousands of American troops dying in Gaza. But you've got your head in the sand if you think that's going to happen. It's a hell of a stick to wave around though.

[disgruntledemployee]

Sounds like EBO.  Remember, when it comes to effects based ops, the enemy has a vote and may not go the way you want.

[Lord Ratner]

17 minutes ago, disgruntledemployee said:

Sounds like EBO.  Remember, when it comes to effects based ops, the enemy has a vote and may not go the way you want.

Yeah dude, welcome to negotiations. Like I said early, your predictive track record ain't great, so let's re-engage when we have some results (or lack of) to discuss. It's been 2 weeks.