The Next President is...

[Mark1]

11 hours ago, brickhistory said:

He doesn't charge Trump with obstruction yet doesn't clear him either.  Which isn't what I learned about our criminal justice system, you either were or you weren't.  Tie goes to the defendant...

Wut?  Mueller conducted an investigation and summarized his findings in a report, he didn't adjudicate the case. 

When a district attorney declines to bring murder charges against someone because they don't think they have evidence to meet burden of proof you thought that meant the state was declaring the individual innocent?  You need to fire your criminal justice teacher.

And for the record, if you go to trial and the verdict is "not guilty" that's not a declaration of innocence either.

[brickhistory]

8 hours ago, Mark1 said:

 

And for the record, if you go to trial and the verdict is "not guilty" that's not a declaration of innocence either.

Indeed.  Perhaps I was also wrong about a statist ideology not being popular since the "innocent until proven guilty" thing seems to be out of fashion as well.

[pawnman]

10 hours ago, Mark1 said:

Wut?  Mueller conducted an investigation and summarized his findings in a report, he didn't adjudicate the case. 

When a district attorney declines to bring murder charges against someone because they don't think they have evidence to meet burden of proof you thought that meant the state was declaring the individual innocent?  You need to fire your criminal justice teacher.

And for the record, if you go to trial and the verdict is "not guilty" that's not a declaration of innocence either.

It's not declaring innocent... But then, even if you're found completely blameless in a court of law, you still wouldn't be declared innocent.  You'd be declared "not guilty".

Innocent until proven guilty means that innocent is the default.  If Trump is not prosecuted and found guilty, he is by definition innocent.  It's a bedrock principle of Western law.

[brickhistory]

 

 

 

That oughtta take care of anymore fly-bys...

[matmacwc]

On 4/20/2019 at 10:48 PM, Mark1 said:

Wut?  Mueller conducted an investigation and summarized his findings in a report, he didn't adjudicate the case. 

When a district attorney declines to bring murder charges against someone because they don't think they have evidence to meet burden of proof you thought that meant the state was declaring the individual innocent?  You need to fire your criminal justice teacher.

And for the record, if you go to trial and the verdict is "not guilty" that's not a declaration of innocence either.

I was beginning to wonder if we chased off all the Demo’s on the forum, we need you around to show the other side.  Even if a lot of us think these kind of posts make no sense whatsoever.  It’s up there with global warming causes global cooling.  He will not be impeached and he’ll probably win in 2020, get used to the idea.

BTW, my nickel law degree & common sense tells me if there isn’t enough for burden of proof, it is most likely didn’t happen.  On top of the fact there was no crime to obstruct, just a blowhard that was protected by the team around him, something Nixon could have used.

Edited April 24, 2019 by matmacwc

[TreeA10]

I think they are trying to dig out from under the rubble after the House of Collusion collapsed on their tinfoil wrapped skulls.  I'm guessing the survivors from that debacle are going to take that debris and start building the Obstruction Palace because....Orange man bad.

[Sua Sponte]

10 hours ago, matmacwc said:

I was beginning to wonder if we chased off all the Demo’s on the forum, we need you around to show the other side.  Even if a lot of us think these kind of posts make no sense whatsoever.  It’s up there with global warming causes global cooling.  He will not be impeached and he’ll probably win in 2020, get used to the idea.

BTW, my nickel law degree & common sense tells me if there isn’t enough for burden of proof, it is most likely didn’t happen.  On top of the fact there was no crime to obstruct, just a blowhard that was protected by the team around him, something Nixon could have used.

There’s different burden’s of proof. When you file a VA claim, it’s “more likely than not” burden. In criminal law, it’s the highest (for good reason), “beyond a reasonable doubt.” Even if the House could drum up 2/3rds majority to impeach him, it’ll never be approved in a Republican controlled Senate. So the issue would be moot. Even trying is just vying for optics from their base for election season. 

The Mueller Report literally says that it doesn’t show that criminal conduct either happened, nor does it exonerate him from any criminal conduct. It’s the equivalent of a hung jury. Remember, it’s beyond a reasonable doubt. However, the Mueller Report also says it adheres to a DOJ policy (not a law, a policy) that states they will not charge a sitting President with criminal charges (states will since they’re a different sovereignty). So, even if the Mueller Report would’ve said that Trump committed obstruction of justice beyond a reasonable doubt, he wasn’t going to get charged anyway by the Feds, since it would’ve gone against the DOJ policy. It would’ve just been dumped off on Congress to do something, if anything. 

There’s been talk about how “there wasn’t any crime, so you can’t have obstruction of justice.” Which, isn’t quite true per the Federal definition of it.

1. There was a proceeding pending before a department or agency of the United States.
2. The defendant knew of or had a reasonably founded belief that the proceeding was pending.
3. The defendant corruptly endeavored to influence, obstruct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which the proceeding was pending.

Martha Stewart was charged, and convicted of obstruction of justice inter alia , even after the major charge of securities fraud was dismissed. But like I said, even if Mueller had found that he obstructed justice beyond a reasonable doubt, the only option is to turn it over to Congress for possible impeachment.

Nixon would’ve most likely never been in the position to resign had he not been stupid enough to record himself talking obstructing justice via the “Smoking Gun Tape” by ordering the FBI to not investigate the Watergate break in.

Based on the diluted Democratic nominees, all 400+ running, Trump will most likely win re-election. 

[matmacwc]

1 hour ago, Sua Sponte said:

that states they will not charge a sitting President with criminal charges (states will since they’re a different sovereignty). So, even if the Mueller Report would’ve said that Trump committed obstruction of justice beyond a reasonable doubt, he wasn’t going to get charged anyway by the Feds, since it would’ve gone against the DOJ policy. 

We don’t have to let on we know this, its made the meltdowns on the 6 PM news more entertaining for years, and I said it was a nickel law degree.  Thanks!

Edited April 25, 2019 by matmacwc

[brickhistory]

3.2% GDP growth vs. a literal platoon of Democrats trying to out-do each other in promising free sh1t.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-26/u-s-growth-of-3-2-tops-forecasts-on-trade-inventory-boost

or

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-democratic-candidates-for-president-2020-story.html

 

Interesting 18 months ahead...

[SurelySerious]

2 hours ago, brickhistory said:

3.2% GDP growth vs. a literal platoon of Democrats trying to out-do each other in promising free sh1t.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-26/u-s-growth-of-3-2-tops-forecasts-on-trade-inventory-boost

or

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-democratic-candidates-for-president-2020-story.html

 

Interesting 18 months ahead...

But the 3.2% GDP growth only fuels and enriches the evil capitalist overlords!

[Mark1]

On 4/24/2019 at 7:02 AM, matmacwc said:

I was beginning to wonder if we chased off all the Demo’s on the forum, we need you around to show the other side.  Even if a lot of us think these kind of posts make no sense whatsoever.  It’s up there with global warming causes global cooling.  He will not be impeached and he’ll probably win in 2020, get used to the idea.

BTW, my nickel law degree & common sense tells me if there isn’t enough for burden of proof, it is most likely didn’t happen.  On top of the fact there was no crime to obstruct, just a blowhard that was protected by the team around him, something Nixon could have used.

What in the holy hell are you on about?  I pity you.  No reasonable person could read what I wrote and receive it as a politically motivated statement.  The mentality you move through life with must be exhausting.

I made a comment on the role of a special counsel (any special counsel in any case) and the fact that they don't determine guilt or innocence.  That's not their role.  And so it would be foolish to assume/claim that they had adjudicated a case as they do not have to power to do so.

It was not a comment on Trump or his guilt/innocence.  It was a comment on the judicial system, period.  That's why Trump wasn't mentioned or hinted at in any way.  I don't honestly care what Trump did or didn't do.  I don't need legal proceedings against him to tell me he's an embarrassment to the nation and a self-centered, self-serving, pompous, incompetent fool who would break the law whenever and wherever it suits him for personal gain.

Disclaimer for all you overzealous political watchdogs: the above statement is not an insinuation he collaborated with the Russians, it is merely a comment on his general character.  Helpful?

But I assume you'll take that to mean that I'm upset I was robbed of the opportunity to wear my matching pantsuit to Hillary's inauguration.

For the record, I'm leaps and bounds further right on the political spectrum than you are, so save your catchy, passive-aggressive, pet nicknames for the real lefty and Dem enemies.

I'd suggest you check out https://www.amazon.com/Them-Hate-Each-Other-Heal-ebook/dp/B079YL56S3 except I haven't read it and know nothing about it or its author other than the fact that the title is applicable for you.  But it's probably just a pinko commie rag, am I right?

BTW, you got ripped if you paid a nickel for that law degree.  Maybe you should track down The Juice and see if he'd spare part of his $2M/yr pension to get you a real degree.

[gearhog]

Speaking of meltdowns...

[WheelsUp]

I think I would vote for just about ANYONE on the right to keep illegals, slavery reparations talk, and child voters to be non-issues. 

 

[WheelsUp]

Aside from the drama trump brings I don’t think he’s done a bad job. Unemployment is down, military is funded well, and the wall is a good thing that will create a lot of jobs. 

Republican should be happy the have Cortez and Omar on their side, people may vote red just because of those 2 clowns 

[Sim]

 

And "it" continues with thought patrol. Left support it. 

[brickhistory]

Political opinion essay:

https://spectator.org/listen-to-joe-digenova/

 

contains some very interesting facts to make it's case:

1. 

Quote

The problem for Brennan and [former Director of National Intelligence]Clapper and [former FBI Director] Comey and [former FBI General Counsel] Baker and all of them now is, is that the FISA Court has already communicated with the Justice Department about its findings. And their findings are that from more than four years before the election of Donald Trump, there was an illegal spying operation going on by FBI [private] contractors — four of them — to steal personal information, electronic information about Americans and to use it against the Republican Party.

2. 

Quote

he FISA Court abuse is the center of this entire abuse of governmental power. The Chief Judge of that court [Rosemary M. Collyer] has already ruled that the FBI broke the law and that the people at the head of the [Obama] Justice Department — [former Deputy Attorney General] Sally Yates, John Carlin, the Assistant Attorney General for National Security, all knew about it and lied to the court, the FISA Court, about it.

3. 

Quote

His name is Admiral Mike Rogers. He was the head of the National Security Agency. He discovered the illegal spying. He went personally to the FISA Court and briefed the Chief Judge and worked with her for months to uncover the people who did it. The FISA Court has already told the Justice department who lied to that court and that has been given to [Attorney General] Bill Barr already.

 

[Clark Griswold]

Related to the 45th President, Code Pink may have reached peak woke:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/codepink-venezuela-white-savior-embassy

So woke they have to yell at POCs about how it is better for them to starve or be shot by an evil dictatorship because said dictatorship is socialist and hates the US...

[brickhistory]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/05/14/barr_assigns_us_attorney_to_review_origins_of_russia_probe_140321.html

Quote

Attorney General William Barr has appointed a U.S. attorney to examine the origins of the Russia investigation and determine if intelligence collection involving the Trump campaign was “lawful and appropriate,” a person familiar with the issue told The Associated Press on Monday.

Quote

 

Durham is a career prosecutor who was nominated for his post as U.S. attorney in Connecticut by Trump. He has previously investigated law enforcement corruption, the destruction of CIA videotapes and the Boston FBI office’s relationship with mobsters

 

….

Durham was unanimously confirmed by the Senate in 2018. At the time, Connecticut’s two Democratic senators, Richard Blumenthal and Chris Murphy, called Durham a “fierce, fair prosecutor” who knows how to try tough cases.

 

 

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, brickhistory said:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/05/14/barr_assigns_us_attorney_to_review_origins_of_russia_probe_140321.html

 

Oh good, two more years of investigations, followed by analysis broken down along party lines.

[waveshaper]

[brickhistory]

12 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Oh good, two more years of investigations, followed by analysis broken down along party lines.

Maybe/probably.

But IF career IC/LE folks are found to have broken the law and used IC equipment and resources against American citizens, that's a bigger deal than political shenanigans.  Further, IF some folks do a perp walk as result of what I suspect will be found, then today's GG14/15s, and junior SES might think twice before emulating the tactics of the senior crowd responsible for this abuse.

Otherwise, sure as sh1t, it'll happen again and worse.  Maybe by an R or by a D, but it will happen again.

I'm agin that.

[BFM this]

Slow Clap...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-service-members-seen-with-maga-patches-on-jumpsuits-at-trump-speech/

Standing, hats off, slow clap...

Well done, gents.

[matmacwc]

14 hours ago, BFM this said:

Slow Clap...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-service-members-seen-with-maga-patches-on-jumpsuits-at-trump-speech/

Standing, hats off, slow clap...

Well done, gents.

The media is tracking this,they could make a whole lot of hay out of it if they want to.  Thankfully they didn’t see the negative Obama patches I’ve seen floating around.  The libs starting kicking out ROTC  programs from universities in the 90’s due to don’t ask don’t tell, of course the more liberal colleges obliged (I got caught in the middle of it, college I wanted to go to kicked ROTC out).  All that was left was ROTC detachments a conservative schools, 25 years later you get a lot of more conservative officers running your Air Force.  I’m not complaining, im in that group, but the “chickens” have definitely come home to roost.  

[waveshaper]

FYI; Mueller will be speaking live today at 11:00 AM ET.

[dream big]

3 hours ago, waveshaper said:

FYI; Mueller will be speaking live today at 11:00 AM ET.

Just watched it, can’t wait to watch the temper tantrums from the left!