Goldfein advocating FAA 1500 hour rule change???

[Karl Hungus]

11 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Gross, but accurate.

Perhaps that was a bit much.  Fixed it.  

[Stitch]

58 minutes ago, Karl Hungus said:

Words... goes to the mall and sees geriatric vets and they're telling war stories instead of talking about their grand kids, so people should stay in so they can be geriatric vets at the mall telling war stories too...  

They hang at the mall because the only contact they have with their grandchildren is the obligatory mass-produced Christmas card/photo they get from their now estranged adult children once a year. 

 

See, years ago mama left the service member while he was deployed (again) and got full custody of the kids.  Convinced by her bitch also divorced friends that it’s in the kid’s best interest, and to make the adjustment as smooth as possible, that they have minimal/no contact with their bio-father. 

Then, now-divorced mom meets and marries a nice guy with a “regular” job.  You know; 40-hour week, home each night at a reasonable time for dinner and able to go to soccer games/school picnics/dance recitals, etc… and this guy is now defacto dad because “he was there” during those developmental years when the kids “needed” a father figure in their lives. 

 

All these vets have is the mall, war stories, flat cheap beer at the VFW and of course, a handle of Military Special Whiskey in the new improved non-breakable plastic bottle from the local Class VI.  All this and only half his retirement check cause she got that too.     

[Clark Griswold]

13 hours ago, MechGov said:

 ...audit or purge of superfluous... 

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Bingo.  

Every detail, task, function, duty, requirement, mission, etc. has to be looked at top to bottom and if it can not be readily related to an operational mission, requirement, duty, function or task in a few credible steps then it needs to get the boot.

In a broader sense though the USAF is in decline, IMO, because of a total misunderstanding of what leadership is based on.

Leadership is based on Professional Competence foremost, Adherence to Core Values second, Common Sense thrid.

If you are incompetent in your job/field it does not matter if you have integrity, you can not follow someone who can not perform the mission nor hold the standards or is not intellectually capable of multi-dimensional decision making or strategic thought.  Victory or success must come first for without it there can be nothing or little at most.

If you do not have integrity you can not be trusted.  You can not be lead by those you don't trust.  Trust is not lost in making decisions where some are disappointed if only that their preference(s) were not chosen for legitimate reasons.  It is lost when decisions are made for opaque reasons, not clearly explained and no strategic, operational, institutional or widely enjoyed personal benefit is observed.  We need a reason to fight, serve, obey or preserve, we can not do so blindly.

If you do not have common sense or context recognition of when to apply procedure/rules/policy firmly and when to bend or not follow them if time & conditions necessitate that for appropriate reasons (mission success, safety, futility, cost, etc.) you will not be able to function in a dynamic, uncontrollable environment like the real operational world.  Unforeseen events and factors will challenge your knowledge, training and plans in ways that there is no ready made decision tree to take you easily to a right answer., a leader at any level must be able to adapt.

We used to first evaluate professional skill and then test leadership potential of those demonstrating superior skill while simultaneously  looking for character defects when those selected would have to make decisions affecting others for the success of the mission and their ability to adapt, innovate and interpret in an unpredictable environment(s).  Deviation from this classic model to what I would call a specious model (assuming pedigree equals leader) has led us nearly to ruin.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Clark Griswold

[Guest No2bonus]

4 hours ago, Glob said:

TLDR version: No, it's just a massive rambling rant and I didn't bother with spelling, punctuation, or grammar too!  

I don't trust for a second either Grosso's "We don't plan for stop loss" or Everheardt's "I threatened the Airline CEOs with stop loss" quote.  These are flag officers giving press statements.  And these kinds of public statements are never made impulsively, but carefully placed and thought through.  IMHO, mentioning stop loss now, even under the guise to say "We're not doing this" puts it on the table, generates discussion,  and softens the blow for the day they decide to come back soon and say "Well we didn't plan to do this, but now we have to."  

I'm not surprised nothing is really being done.  The O-6 and above crew is a generation and a half of officers whose OPR's state all kinds of things like: No Challenge insurmountable.  Crushes any problem.  Highest Performer in the MAJCOM.  But well over a year of openly recognizing this problem and what have we heard about options, solutions, etc?  The current flags are apparently totally unable to solve this problem, and truthfully in the grand scheme of the history of the AF, this doesn't seem like a more challenging airline hiring environment than the 80's or early-mid 90's.

Let's all face it, who were the people getting promoted and are now in charge?  I imagine many of them are like Chang, trying to do the Jedi mind trick using fancy buzzwords to convince us he actually has a shred of competence, but the meanwhile failing miserably at his responsibilities while still somehow impressing the boss.  Many of them were shiny pennies, getting by on just simply looking sharp and polished.  There are probably a group of guys/gals that were great tacticians, and kick ass in solving operational issues but no so great at solving intricate organizational and personnel issues, especially ones that seem to demand thinking outside of the box.  Many found a spot in part of a WG or OG/CC's inner circle, got the spot on the escalator early, and don't really need to be a problem solver to keep their spot on the escalator.  Keeping the polished image up is key though.  In fact, one of the only things that gets you kicked off the escalator is opening your image up to vulnerabilities.  That means not tying your name to any idea/program/event that might fail, generate negative vis, or even sound unpopular.

I hope to not believe Everheardt.  If he really walked in to a meeting with Airline CEO's, and tried to threaten them with Stop Loss or think he'd walk away with a tangible solution to solve today's crisis...what an idiot.  No, that quote seems to target AF pilots as a BOHICA Master Caution.  If he was serious, it would mean that he didn't do any homework on how airline HR systems work, and doesn't understand that they'll get by without mil guys just fine for his timeline.  As its been said, the unions have a say, and not a small one.  Did he meet with ALPA and SWAPA?  Next, there's not total solidarity on the civilian side for the love of military hires for some funky agreement.  Let's imagine that the unions were just totally on board for some weird agreement that would allow mil guys to double dip and get seniority earlier than their civilian counterparts.  Delta and SWA just went through their latest agreement, and United won't even begin until next year.  Nothing would implement with the majors for years past the current threat he discusses.  Plus, there are still plenty of civilian guys wanting to get hired at the legacies without the mil hiring pool.  

One thing the AF could do to threaten the airlines while seeing decent short to medium-term returns back to the AF is to exploit USSCRA and put the CIP on sterroids.  Guarantee the mass of pilots up to a 1-year CIP absence if they get a CJO.  CIP time is inactive reserve, so USSCRA applies when they return to AD.  Guys would bite.  Not sure how many, but having a seniority number with probation done, travel benefits (at some carriers) and a shot at traditional retirement without career consequences would be tempting to some.

Another step is to rekindle the rated recall program and the retired rated recall program.  Not sure how many would bite but some would.  The twofer is that some guys with airline line numbers would probably be happy with lower demand non-flying jobs in desirable places or with work that is interesting or unique.

Queep.  Stop the "more with less."  The SQ's are just broken with queep, and literally don't have time to do every task assigned, let alone put any quality into them.  So what does the AF do?  Instead of saying, "We know you're hurting, so do the important things and keep the organs running," they instead bolster the inspections programs and create things like MICT (which of course need a new additional duty MICT guy to understand the system).  It's leadership saying, "SQ's can't get all the queepy admin done right with their current manning, so we're just going to make them divert even more time to admin."  In the last few months, year...what's really changed?  

Finally...money.  Even though everyone cites that money isn't a factor for their decision to punch, there are a lot of guys afraid to take the leap to new pastures.  Guys that have seen tremendous and ridiculous amounts of spending on contractors and a variety of projects and programs in the last few decades.  The AF isn't hesitant to spend money by any means at all.  They are hesitant to spend money on paying pilots competitive wages to get them to consider staying in.  The cost of having to training just one F-22 pilot replacement for one that punched... basic qual guy only..... is in the millions.  Just one.  I want to say the last number I saw was $17 million just for a fresh RTU grad..  The money is there.  Don't believe that ego and anti-pilot sentiment aren't a factor by leadership (even the pilots).  They would get takers if they gave $500k up front (not the 35k a year devaluing for TVM.)  The contractors and defense companies are getting paid just fine.  How much do we pay L3, Dyncorp, NG, etc. for their services?  Leadership is just too used to the culture of the post-9/11 years where they got to tell the pilots, "go ahead and walk, we don't need you"  and is having trouble realizing and taking action  on incentives for pilots to stay. They still need to seriously fix the queep, but money would solve some of the problems.

They better start getting used to writing checks anyway for when the new retirement system guys start getting to their ADSC.  Even with a 13 year ADSC, who'd stay in for a day longer than needed without that carrot?

 

That was a long read. 

[Guardian]

Couldn't digest what he was saying because he used curved quotations. Just threw me right off.

Seriously though how can the AF be fixed? Top to bottom overhaul and admit truth?


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[General Chang]

Stop Loss always has been (and still is) on the table.  It has to be.  U.S. citizens are depending on military pilots, some reading this forum, to defend this country and their right to L/L/PoH.  We must sustain an appropriate posture to our enemies in this interconnected world.  Stop loss, if invoked, becomes a patriotic duty.  I sincerely hope we have a few patriots left in the pilot ranks.

Your personnelists are working day and night at the highest levels to solve this problem by any other means.  Those personnelists are heroes in my book, and I believe they will be successful.  However, if they are not successful & Stop Loss is invoked, it will be easier, and shorter, if service members remember their core values & jump on the bandwagon.  Young people- do not be disheartened by the negativity on this blog.  The future of our Air Force and our country is bright, and you are the beacons.  Thank you for serving.

[LookieRookie]

I think Chang is a better troll account than scoobs.

 

I wonder if multiple people participate in it.

[BashiChuni]

he's a pretty good troll i'll give him that

 

[hindsight2020]

4 hours ago, gearpig said:

 

It won't be a long term solution as he'll force Guard and Reserve to become more like AD, but it will avoid Stop Loss, increase pilot manning for 4 years. When his tenure is up, he can say he solved the problem while the max exodus from Active Duty, Guard, and Reserve happens on someone else's watch.

I'm a 10 year Airline guy. If I were offered an AGR tour at my hometown unit knowing that I would be protected under USERRA and I could come back to my airline job with no penalties, I don't know if I could turn that down.

You said it yourself already, the problem with "AGR$ for all my brothers" is that it turns the place into Active Duty proper AND absolutely places scarlet letter on airline-aspiring Reservists that haven't been hired already. The airlines do notice the uptick in long tour mil drop and throttle their hiring of said demographic accordingly. Delta has been known to have already behaved in such a way last year.

Hell, it's getting to the point there are people on the other board asking about the feasibility of using the god-damned sabbatical program to try and snag a mainline number, come back to regAF for like 7 years (since there would be an ADSC in excess of 5 years associated with that program), get an AD retirement, and have it all employment protected. I don't think it's gonna work, but if it does then watch out, that first asshole is gonna ruin it for everybody else behind him.

It does beg the question, if the airline job is so great, why the fvck do people long tour MLOA the shit out of it all the time? Don't answer that, I'm being rhetorical; just a little pot stirring for the a-word crowd that like to speak out of both sides of their mouth on said topic. :)

All to do about nothing of course. There's no shortage of AGRs in desirable locations. It's a tight little club too, they got their inheritance line to those jobs out 2-3 iterations out, so that's 12 years worth of tom dick and harrys gerrymandering the honey pot. Most of the leftover revolving flying openings require living in DOD-standard, make-work, pork barrel economy shitholes, at the expense of your family's QOL. So in the aggregate it's not as effective of a solution as chronically-fatigued/burnout regAF folks naturally feel it would be, especially for the majority that wishes to stop living in Minot/Altus/Cannon/Laughlin/et al and raise their kids somewhere dignified.

Something the AF could try, that AFRC would jump on in a NY second, is to make the ART job (title V), a title X mil equivalent for USERRA purposes. ART crisis averted overnight. People would take that paycut in a heartbeat, since what they're really doing is hiding from their shitty schedules/commutes as junior guys. Further antagonizes their civilian coworkers at the airline for sure, but the game is chess. But since it's not legally possible to take MLOA for a civilian job, which the ART is considered to be, then the openings remain unfilled and ARPC is forced to consider AGRs. Problem is that AFRC simply does not have the political capital to ask for such a thing. AFRC is ART centric for money reasons, you can't just flip the manning system wide to be majority AGR. That will never happen, wish in one hand shit on the other type of thing..

Edited April 13, 2017 by hindsight2020

[VMFA187]

In a local San Diego paper - F/A-18 pilots first...

 

Drink the f****in'  man.

[Gazmo]

If I were an airline guy, I wouldn't take an AGR tour unless I was *maybe* within 2-3 years of an AD retirement. I couldn't stomach the full-time thing much longer than that know I could be working a lot less while making more $. The AD retirement isn't that glamorous to sacrifice QOL.

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[hispeed7721]

Your personnelists are working day and night at the highest levels to solve this problem by any other means.  Those personnelists are heroes in my book, and I believe they will be successful.

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[MD]

7 hours ago, gearpig said:

The QoL in the Guard and Reserve hasn't hit bottom yet. 

It won't be a long term solution as he'll force Guard and Reserve to become more like AD, 

Sure about that? Many Guard and especially Reserve units have become mini-AD, same queep and BS, just with no PCSing.

The ARTs in my unit who are being slammed with AD-mandated crap overflowing their plate, and looking to leave at the first good opportunity they get, attests to that. Then again, the ART program is its own problem in and of itself, but that's another story.

[Guardian]

 

 

 

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Personalists are heros? Holy crap. Total F-'- ING twilight zone. I think General Chang is general goldfein. Send the ing HEROs on the so called pilot 365's then. Because everyone knows we don't need to be there. Heros? That makes me sick and is a total spit in the face of true heros that have sacrificed all for our country. Hero's? What do you think our KIA would say about their personalists?

 

Edit: the cuss word blocker is back on.

 

 

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[matmacwc]

Maybe we could get Chang to validate who he is to ClearedHot, we could then take his word for it.

[Duck]

Working day and night except for:

Wednesday's closed at 12
Every 3rd Thursday closed for "training"
PT on Monday's till 10ish (desks not actually manned till after 3 hour lunch)
Resiliency Fridays
Commanders call once a month

Did I miss any? Seems like maybe in a given week... 15 mins of good solid work.



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[WheelsOff]

8 hours ago, General Chang said:

Stop Loss always has been (and still is) on the table.  It has to be.  U.S. citizens are depending on military pilots, some reading this forum, to defend this country and their right to L/L/PoH.  We must sustain an appropriate posture to our enemies in this interconnected world.  Stop loss, if invoked, becomes a patriotic duty.  I sincerely hope we have a few patriots left in the pilot ranks.

Your personnelists are working day and night at the highest levels to solve this problem by any other means.  Those personnelists are heroes in my book, and I believe they will be successful.  However, if they are not successful & Stop Loss is invoked, it will be easier, and shorter, if service members remember their core values & jump on the bandwagon.  Young people- do not be disheartened by the negativity on this blog.  The future of our Air Force and our country is bright, and you are the beacons.  Thank you for serving.

Thanks for posting the exact same trash in two separate threads.  

[fire4effect]

deleted

 

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by fire4effect
deleted

[ClearedHot]

Chang is an Olympic level troll, no one could seriously believe any of the tripe he posts on this forum, it is simply meant to throw fecal matter at the oscillating disk.  I almost feel sorry for someone who has so little going on in their life that they have to invest this much energy just to cause a reaction. 

Sadly his comments represent the worst of everything that is wrong with our Air Force right now, the sickening result of a fighting organization converted to a corporation then repeatedly dunked in political correctness.  The shoes thrived in a corporate environment where everyone is a "warrior."  While I believe every Airman is important and makes a valuable contribution, if you don't take lives or cross the fence with your life at risk, it doesn't mean you are a lesser person, but you most certainly are not a fucking warrior.  I hate to be the old guy who points out everything that is wrong while yelling get off my lawn and granted I do have a unique view now that I am out and safely wrapped in my DD-214 Blanket, but for fucks sake something has to change and make people like Chane a distant memory.

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by ClearedHot

[Gazmo]

If the Air Force could somehow convince the airlines to rewrite the book and do away with a seniority based promotion system alla Emirates. Then people wouldn't be so spring loaded to jump ship for a line number in hopes for accelerated seniority.

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[raimius]

9 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Chang is an Olympic level troll, no one could serious believe any of the tripe he posts on this forum, it is simply meant to throw fecal matter at the oscillating disk. 

 

The willingness of people to buy into the idea that he represents AF "leadership" is indicative of something, though...

[Polar Bear]

Sure about that? Many Guard and especially Reserve units have become mini-AD, same queep and BS, just with no PCSing.
The ARTs in my unit who are being slammed with AD-mandated crap overflowing their plate, and looking to leave at the first good opportunity they get, attests to that. Then again, the ART program is its own problem in and of itself, but that's another story.

What about the AGR's?

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[Polar Bear]

Here's another solution: 

Goldfein is obviously having problems with the take rate and he can't seem to (is not willing to) fix ADAF. He can't increase the bonus without going to Congress and that'll take a while. The QoL in the Guard and Reserve hasn't hit bottom yet. Instead of keeping the military pilots in, he'll go to where the military pilots are.

Allocate a huge amount of the budget toward AGR and long-term orders. Guardsmen and Reservists will take them and they will take the bonus at the current rate. Many of them will already have a seniority number, so they're not worried about getting hired. He'd be able to avoid making painful bureaucratic changes within Active Duty. 

The position of leverage would be: "Here are my objectives, If you can't help me in attaining them, I'll be forced to to take your airline/military pilots out of the airline cockpit for 4+ years. It'll fix my shortage and exacerbate yours. I may not be able to pay AD pilots enough to stay in, but I can pay Guardsman and Reservists an equivalent amount and they'll accept."

It won't be a long term solution as he'll force Guard and Reserve to become more like AD, but it will avoid Stop Loss, increase pilot manning for 4 years. When his tenure is up, he can say he solved the problem while the max exodus from Active Duty, Guard, and Reserve happens on someone else's watch.

I'm a 10 year Airline guy. If I were offered an AGR tour at my hometown unit knowing that I would be protected under USERRA and I could come back to my airline job with no penalties, I don't know if I could turn that down.

Lots of airline guys come in go AGR and return with a a good seniority number.

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[Karl Hungus]

14 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

I think Chang is a better troll account than scoobs.

 

I wonder if multiple people participate in it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

"A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term, a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock, originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an Internet community who spoke to, or about, themselves while pretending to be another person.^[1]

The term now includes other misleading uses of online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a person or organization,^[2] to manipulate public opinion,^[3] or to circumvent a suspension or ban from a website. A significant difference between the use of a pseudonym^[4] and the creation of a sockpuppet is that the sockpuppet poses as an independent third-party unaffiliated with the puppeteer. Many online communities attempt to block sockpuppets."

[FlyinGrunt]

Ugh.  I'll bait him.  Chang, I won't even argue with you, but do keep in mind the epic exodus that would occur the second Stop Loss was lifted.  It's a net loss, long-term.  There's always a better option, unless we start trading nukes with North Korea.  And if something like that happens, you won't need Stop Loss - because we ARE patriots, and we WILL stay to defeat the enemy.

Insert ad hominem ad infinitum, bitter Cannon comment, and Congressional corruption zinger.  Close with incrimination of average American handout taker.