Goldfein advocating FAA 1500 hour rule change???

[HossHarris]

15 minutes ago, Danny Noonin said:

Not exactly how it went down Hoss.


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So you're saying if I hadn't posted a dissenting narrative, I still would have been removed?  Doubtful. 

[Jaded]

12 minutes ago, Danny Noonin said:

Not exactly how it went down Hoss.

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Hoss quotes this forum's rumor about the airline meeting not going well and asks for clarification. That post is deleted by the mods and called "deliberate misinformation" and "fake news." Hoss is given a snarky (imo) "thank you for your service" by the other mod and removed from the group because the rules state  fighter pilots lose their eligibility when they retire. 

That's exactly how it went down. 

[HossHarris]

I get that if the meeting didn't go as well as the bobs had hoped it would be mildly embarrassing. If it went as badly as rumor suggests it would be really embarrassing. 

But that's no reason to bury the truth. 

Evidently I can ask Ed Bastion anything. Let's see what he has to say.....

[Herk Driver]

But that's no reason to bury the truth. 
Evidently I can ask Ed Bastion anything. Let's see what he has to say.....

Agreed.

It would be interesting to get his or any other CEOs take on this, since we won't get that from the CSAF.


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[Danny Noonin]

Hoss quotes this forum's rumor about the airline meeting not going well and asks for clarification. That post is deleted by the mods and called "deliberate misinformation" and "fake news." Hoss is given a snarky (imo) "thank you for your service" by the other mod and removed from the group because the rules state  fighter pilots lose their eligibility when they retire. 
That's exactly how it went down. 

I'd agree except for the snarky part. Hoss implied here he was kicked out for "dissent". He was kicked out because he retired.

Roto explained why he deleted the original post and, after a discussion that seemed (to me) to clear it up, he invited Hoss to repost with source.

There's a literal handful of dudes up there trying to make things better. Roto is one of them. Doesn't help any of us when dudes are throwing spears at him and implying dark motives where there are none.


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[Vetter]

Is there any way we can find out who attended this meeting for the airlines?

[BFM this]

2 minutes ago, Vetter said:

Is there any way we can find out who attended this meeting for the airlines?

Interns

[matmacwc]

1 hour ago, HossHarris said:

So you're saying if I hadn't posted a dissenting narrative, I still would have been removed?  Doubtful. 

Didn't you retire?

[Jaded]

Pretty sure he didn't retire today. They had no problem with him posting stuff for the last month while he was retired. 

[FUSEPLUG]

You'd figure that if what Hoss posted was untrue, a simple clarification from someone in the know would clear the air. Instead they deleted and obfuscated. 

How about some open and honest feedback from the CSAF for once?  That would put all of the rumors to bed... or confirm them. 

[HossHarris]

1 hour ago, matmacwc said:

Didn't you retire?

Yes

26 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Pretty sure he didn't retire today. They had no problem with him posting stuff for the last month while he was retired. 

This

[Hacker]

On 6/12/2017 at 7:35 PM, Spartacus said:

Correct me if I'm wrong here but there isn't much of a correction for inflation either. So, your retirement dollars from a military pension are worth less and less each passing year.

Military pensions are increased annually based directly on the CPI (e.g. the actual inflation rate).

This is part of what makes it a very valuable asset, especially compared to (what are left of) corporate pensions, most of which are fixed payments which lose value in inflation every year.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Hacker

[Hacker]

On 6/13/2017 at 3:33 AM, gearpig said:

It's frustrating when they keep pointing to "The Spreadsheet" in talking about pay. First, the spreadsheet is wrong. It's ball park at best. Way too many variables. I mention their spreadsheet doesn't include things like getting junior assigned, distance learning pay, premium pay, vacation overlaps, vacation flying, extra flying, trip trading, travel benefits, etc. If a person wants to difference between active duty and airline pay to be great enough to justify leaving, it's easily achievable outside the scope of spreadsheet variables.

The "way too many variables" argument cuts both ways. "The spreadsheet" also doesn't include a single furlough, merger, or bankruptcy...which are not exactly unheard of in the airline industry, especially since most of us will spend 20+ years flying for an airline after we leave the military.

The numbers themselves have always only been a single datapoint to be considered in a larger context of other life, financial, and career factors.

[Jaded]

1 hour ago, Hacker said:

Military pensions are increased annually based directly on the CPI (e.g. the actual inflation rate).

This is part of what makes it a very valuable asset, especially compared to (what are left of) corporate pensions, most of which are fixed payments which lose value in inflation every year.

Is this true of a reserve retirement too? If I retire at 43 from the reserves, us my retirement at 60 inflation adjusted for those 17 years? 

[Inertia17]

I am pretty sure they just calculate it from the present year (when you are receiving said payments) pay charts based on time in service and rank, then adjust based on your retirement percentage. But I could be wrong.

[Spartacus]

3 hours ago, Hacker said:

Military pensions are increased annually based directly on the CPI (e.g. the actual inflation rate).

This is part of what makes it a very valuable asset, especially compared to (what are left of) corporate pensions, most of which are fixed payments which lose value in inflation every year.

I was told that the pension only gets a 1% per year increase that DOES NOT cover inflation. Where can we all go look to see what the answer is?

Additionally, I have no faith in the Air Force or Congress protecting military benefits. I bet if you go talk to some of the retirees on base who are in tan coveralls and Vietnam Veteran hats they'll tell you that they were promised free health insurance for life after they retired. How'd that one turn out? 

Based off of recent actions and discussions by Congress I would bet a lot that they are going to continue to target military compensation and veterans benefits. This was a huge factor in my decisioning making to pull the handles. I just don't trust the government and have to assume that things are only going to get worse.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Spartacus

[Spartacus]

15 hours ago, Vetter said:

Is there any way we can find out who attended this meeting for the airlines?

There's no way that I know of right now. The airline that I am getting my information from said that they sent their head of pilot hiring to the meeting. So, definitely not the CEO.

[Guest]

I am pretty sure they just calculate it from the present year (when you are receiving said payments) pay charts based on time in service and rank, then adjust based on your retirement percentage. But I could be wrong.

That is incorrect. For active duty, it's based on the high-3 pay you actually received, and then adjusted annually for CPI.
For reservists, the computation is different. They use the charts for your 57, 58, and 59th years (assuming payments start at age 60) on this planet to calculate your "high-3" and adjust annually for CPI from there.

Here's the link:
https://militarypay.defense.gov/Pay/Retirement/Reserve.aspx


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[Hacker]

24 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

I was told that the pension only gets a 1% per year increase that DOES NOT cover inflation. Where can we all go look to see what the answer is?

Really?  In the age of Google?

https://militarypay.defense.gov/Pay/Retirement/

and

https://militarypay.defense.gov/Pay/Retirement/COLA/

Edited June 14, 2017 by Hacker

[Inertia17]

23 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:

That is incorrect. For active duty, it's based on the high-3 pay you actually received, and then adjusted annually for CPI.
For reservists, the computation is different. They use the charts for your 57, 58, and 59th years (assuming payments start at age 60) on this planet to calculate your "high-3" and adjust annually for CPI from there.

Here's the link:
https://militarypay.defense.gov/Pay/Retirement/Reserve.aspx


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Ah right, I thought the CPI adjustment matched the increases we get yearly, my mistake. And completely spaced on the high-3 calc.

[matmacwc]

5 hours ago, Hacker said:

The "way too many variables" argument cuts both ways. "The spreadsheet" also doesn't include a single furlough, merger, or bankruptcy...which are not exactly unheard of in the airline industry, especially since most of us will spend 20+ years flying for an airline after we leave the military.

The numbers themselves have always only been a single datapoint to be considered in a larger context of other life, financial, and career factors.

Here's a spreadsheet, you only work 12 days a month at an airline, beat that.

[SocialD]

5 hours ago, Hacker said:

The "way too many variables" argument cuts both ways. "The spreadsheet" also doesn't include a single furlough, merger, or bankruptcy...which are not exactly unheard of in the airline industry, especially since most of us will spend 20+ years flying for an airline after we leave the military.

This!  I'm really digging the airline gig and I'm glad I jumped early.   However, the above can't be emphasized enough. Right now, if you think you're going to the airlines anyway, the earlier, the better.  Being at the front of the wave is a good hedge against any black swan events.  In 10 years I might think it's wise to hang on for the pension...time will tell.

I was over 10 years away from an AGR retirement so, for me, it was an easy decision to jump.  If you're within 5 years, it's a no brainer...the tough spot is the guys between 10 and 15 YOS.  Although even if I had been there, I still would have jumped.  This year, my total compensation between the two gigs will more than double my O-4 AGR pay (16 yr, w/o dependents) and I'll work about the same.  Taxes take a cut of that but I'm still up, plus my rental properties and  a good tax man help. 

Flying with a captain now who was held back in the AF for almost a year.   The difference...his buddies were hired into the right seat of the 757 on the A scale and he was hired into second officer on the 727 on the B scale.  His buddies have also been WB captains for years while he is still unable to hold WB captain.  His (forced) delay has cost him home hundreds of thousands of dollars and untold QOL (wrt to schedules). 

It's all a crapshoot, goodluck to us all.  

[pawnman]

10 hours ago, Hacker said:

Military pensions are increased annually based directly on the CPI (e.g. the actual inflation rate).

This is part of what makes it a very valuable asset, especially compared to (what are left of) corporate pensions, most of which are fixed payments which lose value in inflation every year.

Don't neglect the medical.  It's not free anymore, but it's incredibly cheap compared to most employer or individual plans.

[HuggyU2]

12 hours ago, matmacwc said:

Here's a spreadsheet, you only work 12 days a month at an airline, beat that.

Beat that?  You don't have to work any days per month when you're furloughed.  

(I was furloughed twice).  

Edited June 15, 2017 by HuggyU2

[matmacwc]

25 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

Beat that?  You don't have to work any days per month when you're furloughed.  

(I was furloughed twice).  

I get it, I was furloughed in the ANG a couple of years ago!  Times (airlines) are good now, how long it will last, who knows.  Your corner of the AF was much like the ANG, it was great, but the walls were burning down around you.  Big AF should structure a massive program for return to the AF if the economy goes to crap, because it might.  If it doesn't, the AF is screwed.