Goldfein advocating FAA 1500 hour rule change???

[HuggyU2]

7 hours ago, matmacwc said:

Your corner of the AF was much like the ANG, it was great, but the walls were burning down around you.  

That's a very good way to describe it.  I'm going to use that description in the future.   

[sputnik]

On 6/14/2017 at 10:28 AM, Spartacus said:

I was told that the pension only gets a 1% per year increase that DOES NOT cover inflation. Where can we all go look to see what the answer is?

Additionally, I have no faith in the Air Force or Congress protecting military benefits. I bet if you go talk to some of the retirees on base who are in tan coveralls and Vietnam Veteran hats they'll tell you that they were promised free health insurance for life after they retired. How'd that one turn out? 

 

Dude, I appreciate your cynicism, I really do.  But your lack of basic knowledge is kinda scary.  Its pretty easy to look this stuff up.

 

[pelexecute]

https://buffalonews.com/2017/06/19/airlines-draft-proposal-weaken-flight-safety-law-passed-wake-flight-3407-crash/

Any chance this passes?  If so, would military stay at the top of the hiring pool?  The AF must love the part about airlines giving us a bonus to leave military flying!  

[Buddy Spike]

On 6/14/2017 at 0:13 PM, matmacwc said:

Here's a spreadsheet, you only work 12 days a month at an airline, beat that.

 

Unless you are a commuter on reserve.  Then it's 18 plus the added bonus of hanging out with the flying public in coach on your days off.

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, Buddy Spike said:

Unless you are a commuter on reserve.  Then it's 18 plus the added bonus of hanging out with the flying public in coach on your days off.

Don't commute....live in base (within short call range), bid WB FO asap, profit!  And by profit I mean spend lots of time at home.  12 days of actual work, would be a heavy month!  Hell, in the winter 12 days in 2-3 months would be a lot.  

Seriously though...don't commute.  Not commuting is like a whole different job.  

[Buddy Spike]

1 minute ago, SocialD said:

Don't commute....live in base (within short call range), bid WB FO asap, profit!  And by profit I mean spend lots of time at home.  12 days of actual work, would be a heavy month!  Hell, in the winter 12 days in 2-3 months would be a lot.  

Seriously though...don't commute.  Not commuting is like a whole different job.  

It's not always a choice in the short term, but I agree.  Just injecting a little reality into the green grass on the other side.

 

[STOIKY]

12 minutes ago, SocialD said:

Hell, in the winter 12 days in 2-3 months would be a lot.  

 

That's actually pretty cool. I didn't realize it was even possible to work that few days per month at an airline? I take it that your example is cited from personal experience?  

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, Buddy Spike said:

It's not always a choice in the short term, but I agree.  Just injecting a little reality into the green grass on the other side.

 

Word.  To add to Buddy spikes post...  Commuting to reserve is SHITTY!  It was slightly better at my current employer over my last, but still shitty.  Often times you have to show up the day prior, sometimes not make it home the last day.  Some blocks, you only have 2 days off between reserve days, which make it worthless to commute home.  12 days a month OFF (at home) would have been amazing.  Thankfully there is a bunch of movement right now and most won't have to deal with that for too long.  Buddy Spike is right, it's not all rainbows and unicorns.

 

56 minutes ago, STOIKY said:

That's actually pretty cool. I didn't realize it was even possible to work that few days per month at an airline? I take it that your example is cited from personal experience?  

"Work" is a relative term.  You will be on call 17ish days a month...how many times you actually go to work is a different story.  It's mostly from watching squadron mates schedules who are fairly junior WB FOs.  They sit reserve at their house within range of short call.  Some months you win and others you lose.  However, from watching their schedules and schedules of other junior WB FOs, it can be quite lucrative IF you live in base.  I'm just switching to WB FO, so I'll let you know next spring. 

Edited June 20, 2017 by SocialD

[Buddy Spike]

54 minutes ago, STOIKY said:

That's actually pretty cool. I didn't realize it was even possible to work that few days per month at an airline? I take it that your example is cited from personal experience?  

When I went through 737 school, my upgrading captain had just come off the 787.  He called himself the most expensive food tasting, bed making walk around guy in the world. He only flew twice in 90 days and most of his time in the airplane was during IOE. He was a regular at the school house for landing currency, and got so bored at home he took a part time job as a golf caddy to play free golf. 

I have no earthly idea why he ever left that to put in a bid for NB CA. His life sounded awesome to me. 

[TreeA10]

Went 105 days without flying last Fall. Flew one trip last month. So far this month, I did a landing currency sim this morning. Not sure I can keep up this hectic pace. 

[Lawman]

Went 105 days without flying last Fall. Flew one trip last month. So far this month, I did a landing currency sim this morning. Not sure I can keep up this hectic pace. 

To somebody who has spent 1/2 of their almost 6 year marriage deployed or in the field that sounds amazing....

But hey they are talking about an Army Bonus soon. So I got that coming for me....


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[TnkrToad]

15 hours ago, pelexecute said:

https://buffalonews.com/2017/06/19/airlines-draft-proposal-weaken-flight-safety-law-passed-wake-flight-3407-crash/

Any chance this passes?  If so, would military stay at the top of the hiring pool?  The AF must love the part about airlines giving us a bonus to leave military flying!  

Any mil pilot worth his salt will have no problem getting hired if the 1,500 hr rule is rescinded. Mil pilots got hired left and right in the late 90s, when folks just needed commercial licenses to get hired by regionals. No reason to believe it would be any different now. 

TT

Edited June 20, 2017 by TnkrToad
grammer

[HuggyU2]

2 hours ago, STOIKY said:

That's actually pretty cool. I didn't realize it was even possible to work that few days per month at an airline? I take it that your example is cited from personal experience?  

I've got a friend that worked 17 days from Jan-May.  787 F/O.  

He does a lot of home improvement stuff (and is very good at it) while sitting at home on 13 hour call out.  

[Karl Hungus]

21 minutes ago, TnkrToad said:

Any mil pilot worth his salt will have no problem getting hired if the 1,500 hr rule is rescinded. Mil pilots had got hired left and right in the late 90s, when folks just needed commercial licenses to get hired by regionals. No reason to believe it would be any different now. 

TT

Reducing the 1500 hours requirement simply makes it easier for the regional subcontractors to hire less experienced civilians (and military, if it's less than the 750 hours required for mil pilots now).  It delays the collapse of the regional subcontractor model, and reduces the need for the legacy carriers to bring more regional flying in-house, which reduces the amount of legacy pilot jobs.  Suddenly, the pool of labor to fly a 50 seat CRJ-200 for poverty wages increases.  It doesn't change scope rules at all- each airline will still have scope limits with their legacy unions.  RJ-obsessed management like Kirby at United will be happy though; why buy 737-700s or CS100s to bring regional flying in-house when you can fill every last 50 seat or 76 seat RJ under current scope rules with cheap labor?  One less bargaining chip for legacy unions when management comes begging for scope relief.    

Won't stop the mass exodus from the AF at all, aside from reducing slightly the number of available jobs at legacy carriers as their growth slows.  Retirements alone will destroy the AF's retention.  If he really wanted to impact legacy hiring, he should be trying for Age 67, or Age Unlimited...

[Guest]

https://buffalonews.com/2017/06/19/airlines-draft-proposal-weaken-flight-safety-law-passed-wake-flight-3407-crash/

[dream big]

5 hours ago, Buddy Spike said:

When I went through 737 school, my upgrading captain had just come off the 787.  He called himself the most expensive food tasting, bed making walk around guy in the world. He only flew twice in 90 days and most of his time in the airplane was during IOE. He was a regular at the school house for landing currency, and got so bored at home he took a part time job as a golf caddy to play free golf. 

I have no earthly idea why he ever left that to put in a bid for NB CA. His life sounded awesome to me. 

Idk man, money? Some of us also enjoy flying ;).  I can see how a separated Air Force guy would kill to work that little and spend time with family- but flying only twice in 90 days and most of that probably only on the bunk? Sounds boring.   Different folks for different strokes though! 

Edited June 20, 2017 by dream big

[Jaded]

3 hours ago, dream big said:

Idk man, money? Some of us also enjoy flying ;).  I can see how a separated Air Force guy would kill to work that little and spend time with family- but flying only twice in 90 days and most of that probably only on the bunk? Sounds boring.   Different folks for different strokes though! 

It's easy to fly more if you want to. 

[Buddy Spike]

3 hours ago, dream big said:

Idk man, money? Some of us also enjoy flying ;).  I can see how a separated Air Force guy would kill to work that little and spend time with family- but flying only twice in 90 days and most of that probably only on the bunk? Sounds boring.   Different folks for different strokes though! 

Buy an airplane or stay in the ARC then, because the magenta line isn't really "flying."

 

[Prozac]

8 hours ago, Karl Hungus said:

Reducing the 1500 hours requirement simply makes it easier for the regional subcontractors to hire less experienced civilians (and military, if it's less than the 750 hours required for mil pilots now).  It delays the collapse of the regional subcontractor model, and reduces the need for the legacy carriers to bring more regional flying in-house, which reduces the amount of legacy pilot jobs.  Suddenly, the pool of labor to fly a 50 seat CRJ-200 for poverty wages increases.  It doesn't change scope rules at all- each airline will still have scope limits with their legacy unions.  RJ-obsessed management like Kirby at United will be happy though; why buy 737-700s or CS100s to bring regional flying in-house when you can fill every last 50 seat or 76 seat RJ under current scope rules with cheap labor?  One less bargaining chip for legacy unions when management comes begging for scope relief.    

Won't stop the mass exodus from the AF at all, aside from reducing slightly the number of available jobs at legacy carriers as their growth slows.  Retirements alone will destroy the AF's retention.  If he really wanted to impact legacy hiring, he should be trying for Age 67, or Age Unlimited...

In short, rescinding the 1500 hr rule will put downward pressure on all airline wages.  Big Blue needs to fuck off. 

[TnkrToad]

8 hours ago, Karl Hungus said:

Won't stop the mass exodus from the AF at all, aside from reducing slightly the number of available jobs at legacy carriers as their growth slows.  Retirements alone will destroy the AF's retention.  If he really wanted to impact legacy hiring, he should be trying for Age 67, or Age Unlimited...

Obviously devil's advocating, but why not argue for increasing the requirement to 3,000 hrs?

- Big Blue will keep its shiny penny HPO types (regardless of airframe), since they'll never get that many hours by the time they reach the ends of their SUPT commitments. They'll stay in, and surely will make the service a better place, due to their superior PME and exec experiences

- The AF will keep its fighter pilots, because it's way hard to build that many hours as a fighter bubba

- The AF will get rid of those pesky heavy drivers who want to do nothing but fly, because they will have no problem meeting the 3k hr threshold by 10 yrs into their flying careers. The line-flyer heavy drivers will depart in droves, leaving the fighter mafia to run the AF, as it's been for most of the Air Force's (and its antecedents') history

- Prior mil folks who already have a-word jobs will love it, because the increased barriers to entry will give them/their unions even more clout. They will, of course, point out how the friendly skies will be even safer than before, due to the more-stringent flying hour requirements

- Regionals will collapse, but hey, everybody hates the regionals with their slave wages and such. The legacies will start flying smaller airplanes to fill the gaps left by the regionals' collapse--meaning more flying jobs to be had in the majors

- For the more-limited number of folks who break into the big leagues, their pay will increase even further still, due to simple supply/demand economics

If making regional pilots get ATPs was good, increasing ATP requirements to 3,000 hours must surely be better. Can't be too safe . . .

TT

[Weezer]

On 2/15/2017 at 11:04 PM, ViperMan said:

I agree with you, and in my humble opinion, the USAF doesn't want to set the precedent of paying certain line officers double or more what they pay other line officers - it would likely cause "morale" issues in other parts of the Air Force - that is their real reason in my calculation - not the fact that they can't actually compete with the private sector (airlines). Which is why, every time I've heard it 'discussed', it's always brought up as a non-starter: "well, we know we can't compete with the airlines, so therefore..."

Really? The DOD has an enormous budget - they could squeeze a couple rocks and put a major dent in their problem using nothing but money, if it was no object.

I'm not a pilot...I don't care that y'all get paid more.  You should.  If I screw up my Power Point, no one dies.  If you (or one of the hundreds of random Mx Airmen) screw up something related to your weapons system, you and potentially many others can die.  That risk that you assume deserves additional compensation.

 

And, the submariners and nuke guys in the Navy get paid more than typical SWOs and it's been fine for years.

[SocialD]

On 6/20/2017 at 4:10 AM, dream big said:

Idk man, money? Some of us also enjoy flying ;).  I can see how a separated Air Force guy would kill to work that little and spend time with family- but flying only twice in 90 days and most of that probably only on the bunk? Sounds boring.   Different folks for different strokes though! 

Spend your reserve days building a plane that you then get to fly.  That's my plan.  Tailwheel, doors off, 500 feet, relatively slow, basic panel, flying in and out of grass strips...that's real flying anyway.  

[VMFA187]

37 minutes ago, SocialD said:

Spend your reserve days building a plane that you then get to fly.  That's my plan.  Tailwheel, doors off, 500 feet, relatively slow, basic panel, flying in and out of grass strips...that's real flying anyway.  

That sounds like fun flying.

I'd miss the fighting though. Flying is a means to fight.

[sqwatch]

That sounds like fun flying.
I'd miss the fighting though. Flying is a means to fight.

Fly yourself to karate lessons?


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[SocialD]

1 hour ago, VMFA187 said:

I'd miss the fighting though. Flying is a means to fight.

If you're all about "the fight" then you should probably hang up the g-suit and roll to your nearest Reaper squadron.  You're "in the fight" on almost every sortie.  Heck you'd probably employ more weapons (against the enemy) doing that than you could ever imagine in a fighter.  

I still get to fly my 6 sorties/month in my Viper, as a part-timer.  Although, it's quickly becoming not worth it.  If they actually deployed us to go fight and not sit on our asses on TSP after TSP, I might agree with you.  I wouldn't even mind the massive pay cut I take to go on orders.  But the only fighting we seem to do anymore is fighting one self (USAF) inflicted road block after another just to get anything done.