Goldfein advocating FAA 1500 hour rule change???

[SocialD]

45 minutes ago, TreeA10 said:

I'm trying to envision single pilot ops on a snowy day with deicing operations in LGA taxing out in the conga line waiting for takeoff and needing to do a wing inspection as you hit the end of your holdover time for the anti-ice as ground is giving taxi instructions from hell stacking up jets all over the airfield.  Wouldn't want to be in the middle of that but I'd pay money to listen in on the radio and watch.  That would be some quality entertainment right there.

TREE FLT 1010, ok taxi onto rwy 13, right on romeo, continue on bravo, right on charlie yankee, hold short of rwy 4, you're number.........42 in sequence.  Let me know if you'll need to head back to the deice pad.  

Edited February 21, 2017 by SocialD

[Prozac]

The idea of "super dispatchers" cracks me up.  Dispatchers are already overworked. The other night I showed up to a flight that had been dispatched to a runway with no instrument approach and wx~300/1 so no circle either. Our automated flight planning software is supposed to catch things like this and our dispatchers, who are working several flights at a time, rely heavily on it. It's yet another piece of the puzzle that's far from ready for single pilot ops.  I think the super dispatcher concept would have to be limited to a couple of flights max to be anywhere near viable.  

[ClearedHot]

Back to the main theme of the thread, you are getting distracted, and that plays to their hand.

Bottomline, Fingers listened to the problems (like Boomer before him), and decided it was easier to go around the identified problems and ask Congress to take action to make every pilot less marketable.  A big GIANT FU to those that serve.  I will not address the issues that make you want to leave, I will simply ignore your complaints and take external actions that will make it harder for you to find a job on the outside.  Anyone else want to vomit at the hypocrisy?

It was the same thing from a former MAJCOM/CC, a guy I used to respect, who said "they will stay out of patriotism and if they don't we will just make more"  Good luck with that one...of course he was a Nav.

[Champ Kind]

22 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

a guy I used to respect...of course he was a Nav.

Wait, what?

[Tulsa]

We are quite a ways off from removing the elevator operator from the elevator in both professional and public acceptability.  Cease buzzer.

[Vetter]

Airline IT is stuck in the late 70s/early 80s.  After being at AA for almost 3 years, I can say without a doubt the only reason this shit show doesn't implode is because of the Capt and FO.  These companies are not going to outlay the capital to make any improvements which would allow single pilot or autonomous.  Possible in a Utopia...sure.  Just not in this fucking world.

[ViperMan]

3 minutes ago, Vetter said:

Airline IT is stuck in the late 70s/early 80s.  After being at AA for almost 3 years, I can say without a doubt the only reason this shit show doesn't implode is because of the Capt and FO.  These companies are not going to outlay the capital to make any improvements which would allow single pilot or autonomous.  Possible in a Utopia...sure.  Just not in this ing world.

LOL.

[F16Deuce]

20 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Back to the main theme of the thread, you are getting distracted, and that plays to their hand.

Bottomline, Fingers listened to the problems (like Boomer before him), and decided it was easier to go around the identified problems and ask Congress to take action to make every pilot less marketable.  A big GIANT FU to those that serve.  I will not address the issues that make you want to leave, I will simply ignore your complaints and take external actions that will make it harder for you to find a job on the outside.  Anyone else want to vomit at the hypocrisy?

It was the same thing from a former MAJCOM/CC, a guy I used to respect, who said "they will stay out of patriotism and if they don't we will just make more"  Good luck with that one...of course he was a Nav.

This.

[pawnman]

21 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Back to the main theme of the thread, you are getting distracted, and that plays to their hand.

Bottomline, Fingers listened to the problems (like Boomer before him), and decided it was easier to go around the identified problems and ask Congress to take action to make every pilot less marketable.  A big GIANT FU to those that serve.  I will not address the issues that make you want to leave, I will simply ignore your complaints and take external actions that will make it harder for you to find a job on the outside.  Anyone else want to vomit at the hypocrisy?

It was the same thing from a former MAJCOM/CC, a guy I used to respect, who said "they will stay out of patriotism and if they don't we will just make more"  Good luck with that one...of course he was a Nav.

Maybe.  Or again, maybe he's proposing "non-monetary" solutions so that when he goes back to congress asking for a bump in the bonus and/or monthly flight pay, they can see he's tried other solutions.

[Prozac]

Below is a post from Albie over at APC.  Highly pertinent to this discussion, and , as usual from Albie, spot on:

 

 

 

It is not as dumb as you think...

Part of the reason pilots are doing so well in contracts now is the pilot shortage has decimated regionals. This move by Goldfein would make the regionals able to hire less experienced and less expensive pilots. This labor shortfall could be significantly reduced by producing more regional pilots sooner, which is his goal in reducing the flight time required for these jobs. 

If regionals could again hire guys at 250 hours with a commercial, they could fill a lot more right seats...quickly. Until the ATP requirement, young pilots could get a loan for their training and build time for only a short while before being scooped up. There were plenty of pilots in the mid 2000s that would take out a 100k loan to get to that hour mark.

Two things stopped that. First--the requirement to have an ATP and 1500 hours. Second, the financial crisis drove a lot of folks out of the loan making business, which funded the "puppy mill" flight schools across Florida and the sunbelt. Many of those schools and programs shrunk or disappeared. 

750 hours isn't at easy at 250 and a commercial to acquire, but it is half of what they need now. It is a big cut.

If the regionals can start stacking their right seats again, here's some potential ramifications...

1. The bonuses/wage increases we've seen in the regionals might ebb or disappear. The financial barrier for a new pilot to gain 750 hours, while not insignificant, is reduced. So is the time it takes (by 6-18 months) to get those hours as a CFI in those same schools. Those helo transition courses might fade as well...
2. Regionals being better manned will allow some code-share and out-sourced flying to go back downhill to the regionals from mainline. Part of the reason Delta is interested in 100 seaters and bought the 717s from SWA was the lack of reliability and shrinking cost advantage of regional feeders. More pilots to fly those 50/70/90 seaters for less money puts downward pressure on mainline pay and benefits. 
3. Once regionals can successfully fill their own schedules, they will again be whipsawed to lower their costs or face losing routes to their regional competitors. The downward pressure on wages when that occurs has already been demonstrated many times since 2002.

While it is a tragic story, the fact is one poor regional pilot with a bad training record probably did more to enhance our profession than years of dedicated work and effort by many ALPA volunteers. The Colgan crash put pilot experience and competency into the discussion in the media and in Congress, and also flight time and duty time issues. Subsequent legislation meant to enhance safety like the Part 117 regulations and the 2013 ATP changes not only helped enhance safety, but also gave pilot groups more leverage than they have had in years by shrinking the pool of available labor. What Goldfein hopes to do--as do the RAA and a host of others--is lower the requirements to increase that pool size. In the process, he will take pressure off his manning crisis by not only increasing the of non-military pilots available for airlines, but by potentially reducing our future pay as well. He doesn't just want to keep his pilots--he wants to make the airlines an overall less attractive option.

The hero in these stories? The Colgan families. They have never let up in their fight to highlight the issues that affect airline safety. They are on the Hill--even now--quietly walking the office halls wearing their red jackets and adored with a simple button that usually has a picture of the loved one they lost. They are going to need to keep the fight going, along with the help of ALPA and others, if the 1500 hour requirement is to be preserved.

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_relea...m?newsId=14838

Congress tightens requirements for airline pilots - latimes

[Duck]

With that perspective, I feel that much more betrayed by Gold-fiend and his AF cronies.


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[tac airlifter]

Great article Prozac.  Its quite shameful that CSAF has decided trying to fuck my career options and undo safety legislation is a more palatable option than fixing the easy & dumb reasons folks get out.  I'm not even interested in the airlines, it's just bad leadership, and unconscionable.

[flyusaf83]

Bear in mind everyone, this is the same Air Force that dogmatically preaches the core values to us. Then they try and manipulate government regulations in a deliberate attempt to screw over veterans' ability to land jobs after they serve for 10+ years.

Integrity first though, right Big Blue?

Also, isn't "take care of your people" like the first thing that all AF leadership courses teach? Or is Maslow's hierarchy of needs? This BS shows me my need to get the hell out before the AF invents new ways to screw people over.

Where are the leaders?

[Duck]

Where are the leaders?

In the airlines and other civilian jobs...


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[dream big]

On 2/8/2017 at 9:50 AM, snoopyeast said:

I laugh quite a bit every time I hear AF "pilot shortage".  There is no shortage of pilots wanting to fly planes in the AF.  There's a shortage of the AF placing those pilots in jobs that allow them to be pilots, and to teach other pilots.  There's plenty of bag wearers sitting at group level positions, in staff jobs, at IDE, etc staring at a computer screen.  I've flown less than 200 hours a year the last 3 years as an experienced MWS instructor because the AF values keeping the self fellating bureaucratic process running more that it values flight experience.  Senior Capts and junior majors are begging to be 'allowed' to get back to teaching the young pilots, only to be told that they're more valued behind a desk.  No thanks, see ya, welcome aboard Delta 4962, non stop to Chicago.

Nailed it 

a few months after IP school: "your job isn't to fly, oh by the way why didn't you contribute to the squadron chili cookout?"

well maybe that's why most of our copilots can hardly land the plane.  Heaven forbid we are actually tested in a real combat situation. 

[Guest]

On APC Albie talked about the lobby groups out there to rally against Fingers push. I reached out to my senators and the 3407 Memorial foundation (lobbyist for flight safety). I received the following reply from the 3407 Memorial foundation.

Thank you for your note regarding the comments made by CSAF.  We also saw those comments reported recently and find them very troubling........especially given the context by which they are made.  Seem CSAF is willing to risk safety in commercial aviation so they can maintain pilots in the military given the financial opportunities available.  How sad that anyone would risk peoples lives in favor of making their job easier to do.

 

We have also reviewed this with Captain Sullenberger (AF academy graduate) who is outraged by these comments.

 

Yes we will continue our efforts to maintain the First Officer Qualification rule and all others the result of our tragedy.  Please continue to monitor our efforts and lend support among your networks of professionals and friends as this fight heats up later this summer when the next FAA re-authorization bill expires and changes could likely be made legislatively to aviation safety rules.

 

Scott Maurer

father of Lorin Maurer - passenger 3A Colgan flight 3407

 

end message

Edited February 25, 2017 by Guest

[Gazmo]

On APC Albie talked about the lobby groups out there to rally against Fingers push. I reached out to my senators and the 3407 Memorial foundation (lobbyist for flight safety). I received the following reply from the 3407 Memorial foundation.
Thank you for your note regarding the comments made by CSAF.  We also saw those comments reported recently and find them very troubling........especially given the context by which they are made.  Seem CSAF is willing to risk safety in commercial aviation so they can maintain pilots in the military given the financial opportunities available.  How sad that anyone would risk peoples lives in favor of making their job easier to do.   We have also reviewed this with Captain Sullenberger (AF academy graduate) who is outraged by these comments.   Yes we will continue our efforts to maintain the First Officer Qualification rule and all others the result of our tragedy.  Please continue to monitor our efforts and lend support among your networks of professionals and friends as this fight heats up later this summer when the next FAA re-authorization bill expires and changes could likely be made legislatively to aviation safety rules.   Scott Maurer father of Lorin Maurer - passenger 3A Colgan flight 3407   end message

There you go.... I like it.

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[fire4effect]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 11:42 PM, dream big said:

Nailed it 

a few months after IP school: "your job isn't to fly, oh by the way why didn't you contribute to the squadron chili cookout?"

well maybe that's why most of our copilots can hardly land the plane.  Heaven forbid we are actually tested in a real combat situation. 

Hopefully you'll have them better prepared by the time they bail for the airlines.

[Azimuth]

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/02/28/impending-pilot-shortage-a-developing-national-crisis.html

[Duck]

How about you fix your own mobile home before complaining to the HOA about your neighbors McMansion.


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[Bender]

How much of your share of the idealized $91B budget boost would you need to see to stay and help un the lateral navigation of this situation?

I'm still short on the specifics of what needs to change...myopic perhaps.

I'm definitely on board with the deployed billet review/reduction. This shit has gotten out of control and needs some attention...we have objectives (as hard as that is to realize at times). We do a lot that does not further them in any measurable way.

We want to focus on squadrons, great; I was asked if I was interested in going around to talk to others to see what we should do...but, seriously we're going to send people around TDY to try and figure this out? Can't we create a list of one thousand things we should do right here, free of charge, at the speed of mud (which is way faster than anything the AF can compile?)

We could stop deploying constantly and trying to kill the same ing dude for six months to come back and try and kill the same dude again for another six months...that seems to me like the only thing that will help.

Our leaders haven't had to do that. We have, we can, we will...but, at some point...we get to play the Cold War game too. The LTs we teach to fly now don't even seem to be looking at it...they'll punch too.

At some point there has to be light at the end of the tunnel. This isn't different than anything else in life. If there is no end in sight, morale becomes an issue. You could literally have an airline job schedule (not Toro's), and still bitch, moan, and complain your way out the door if you spend 6 months at a pop away from our family every 2 years without any end in sight! There is no end to this crap in sight. Maybe if we could say "you've done your's, prepare the next set...you aren't going...unless we start taking losses, then we'll need you." I can see staying there, and preparing them even more better!!

Double the size of the USAF? That would help long term, but it's far from a near term relief...

The problem is the values of Airmen are not in alignment with the desires of National Policy.

Break, break...Bender now has kids, so correct me if I'm ed up...why aren't we upping the 750 to the 1500, instead of lowering the 1500 to 750? Seems like comprising safety to simply level the field is just plain going full retard. That can't be what he said...I haven't replayed the tapes yet.

Bendy


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[pawnman]

6 hours ago, Azimuth said:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/02/28/impending-pilot-shortage-a-developing-national-crisis.html

Maybe we shouldn't have cut so many mobility pilots back in 2014.

[Herk Driver]

Maybe we shouldn't have cut so many mobility pilots back in 2014.

Oh, don't worry since the plan is to build back up to 350k active duty...all is well, there is nothing to see here.


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[guineapigfury]

18 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Maybe we shouldn't have cut so many mobility pilots back in 2014.

AMC would be healthy on pilots if they could have back all the people dragooned into MQ-9 GCS's.  I'd have stayed in the Air Force if I was still flying KC-135s.  Now, I'm happy as a contractor.  I can't imagine the amount of money it would take to get me to come back.  Probably about the same as what you'd have to pay me to remarry my exwife.

[Guardian]

Tami-21. Solved all of the generals problems. Maybe we should have a Tami-22. What do you think that would look like?


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