faipmafiaofficial Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 37 minutes ago, HossHarris said: They'll cite security concerns or good order and discipline or some other nebulous reason. If you have nothing to lose, ask for the order in writing .... Think that will hold up during an IG investigation for a CONUS base in a nice city?
Guest Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 Think that will hold up during an IG investigation for a CONUS base in a nice city? Do you think any IG is going to investigate the CC because you whine when he slaps you down for not staying on base? Maybe that's the way the system is supposed to work, but 9 times out of 10 the IG is there to have the CCs back. Defy his order at your own risk. It's a lot easier for him to phuck you over than vice versa. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jazzdude Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 What gives him/her authority to override federal law?The law just covers you getting paid...they have to pay you IAW the JTR. However, you can still be disciplined if ordered to stay on base and you choose not to. Two completely separate things 1
Herk Driver Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 Think that will hold up during an IG investigation for a CONUS base in a nice city? Yes because he has the authority to do so. It used to be in the JFTR not sure if still in the JTR. Over more than 20 years and 6 trips to an FTU I have seen the policy multiple times...stayed where I wanted, both lodging and not, and never gotten or seen anyone get paperwork. YMMV. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums 1
faipmafiaofficial Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, faipmafiaofficial said: Think that will hold up during an IG investigation for a CONUS base in a nice city? If commanders give unlawful orders then the IG won't have their back. The schoolhouse cc clause in appendix O was removed in December of 2016. It is no longer in the JTR anywhere that a CC is allowed to take away your rights and entitlements given to you by federal law. Commanders are are not allowed to disregard federal law and do whatever they want. Unless I'm wrong and I totally could be. But if they could, what's the point of the JTR? Edited March 30, 2017 by faipmafiaofficial
Guest Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 If commanders give unlawful orders then the IG won't have their back. The schoolhouse cc clause in appendix O was removed in December of 2016. It is no longer in the JTR anywhere that a CC is allowed to take away your rights and entitlements given to you by federal law. Commanders are are not allowed to disregard federal law and do whatever they want. Unless I'm wrong and I totally could be. But if they could, what's the point of the JTR?Guys! This is great news! According to faipmafiaofficial, CCs no longer have the ability to tell us where to stay! Phuck Al Udeid, downtown Doha from now on!!!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
faipmafiaofficial Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 28 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said: Guys! This is great news! According to faipmafiaofficial, CCs no longer have the ability to tell us where to stay! Phuck Al Udeid, downtown Doha from now on!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Ya man you got it
Jaded Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, faipmafiaofficial said: If commanders give unlawful orders then the IG won't have their back. The schoolhouse cc clause in appendix O was removed in December of 2016. It is no longer in the JTR anywhere that a CC is allowed to take away your rights and entitlements given to you by federal law. Commanders are are not allowed to disregard federal law and do whatever they want. Unless I'm wrong and I totally could be. But if they could, what's the point of the JTR? You've obviously never had first hand experience with the UCMJ. What's the quote? "Military justice is to justice as military music is to music."
HeyWatchThis Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 19 hours ago, letsgofast said: Question.. Schoolhouse CC is directing all students to stay on base where I'm slated for an MWS ACIQ program. "The AO may direct adequate available Gov’t Qtrs use for a DoD uniformed member on a U.S. installation only if the DoD uniformed member is TDY to that U.S. installation." Then the JTR talks about "When adequate Gov’t Qtrs are available on the U.S. installation to which a member is assigned TDY, and the member is directed to use them, and the member uses other lodgings as a personal choice, lodging reimbursement is limited to the Gov’t Qtrs cost on the U.S. installation to which assigned TDY (44 Comp. Gen. 626 (1965))." Is it true that an AO can order you to stay on base and if you decide to stay off base you can get paperwork? AO just can't punish you by not paying you the on base lodging rate? What school house? I'm heading off to one Saturday and want to make sure there isn't some extra hurdles I might be facing....
faipmafiaofficial Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jaded said: You've obviously never had first hand experience with the UCMJ. What's the quote? "Military justice is to justice as military music is to music." Ya I haven't and don't plan on it Edited March 30, 2017 by faipmafiaofficial
Fuzz Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 Also reference AFI 34-135 Section 3.2: 3.2. VQ Reservation Process. At the time lodging confirms the reservation request, the staff must inform TDY personnel whether their reservation is confirmed for on base lodging or off base lodging. If on base and CL accommodations are not available the guest has the option to accept a (NA) number and find their own hotel or allow the front desk to assist them with securing accommodations. The member is authorized CL if adequate lodging is unavailable on base for the entire TDY period. The member is authorized a NA if on base and CL accommodations are unavailable for the length of stay. If space becomes available in on base lodging after CL reservation confirmation or NA number issuance, lodging should make an effort to maximize occupancy by attempting to notify the traveler of the change and encouraging the traveler to stay on base. (T-3) NOTE: The traveler is not required to stay in on base lodging after he/she has received a NA number or been issued a CL reservation confirmation. (T-3).NOTE:Managers will maximize the use of on base lodging for TDY-to-School students.Students attending formal training funded with TDY-to-School dollars will make their reservations as soon as their school tour is confirmed to maximize the use of on base lodging. If lodging is unavailable, students will continue to attempt to attain on base lodging until 5 business days prior to the start of the TDY. Schoolhouses making group reservations for classes will request their group reservation as soon as the class dates are confirmed in order to maximize the use of on base lodging. ----------------------------------- The catch here is if they are issuing a Non-A for 5 days or using the CL (Commercial Lodging) portion of this section and making you a hotel reservation at a location they have an MOU. Either way if this is lodging doing in on their own the JTR still trumps all unless the schoolhouse command is getting involved here.
letsgofast Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 Thanks for all the input. I agree with faipmafia that Appendix O has been removed which explicitly allowed commanders to direct use of government quarters. Those stipulations are no longer in the 1 Jan 17 JTR. Deployed CC's issue specific orders (usually a GO) prohibiting off base living for security reasons. This schoolhouse CC has not done that. It's simply in an inprocessing briefing and not on an official memo. Question is who has the balls to go after the CC of a schoolhouse they're attending when it's on the students interest not to ruffle any feathers? Also, would this prohibit a spouse from signing an off base lease and paying out of pocket? I don't think there will be room checks.
FlyinGrunt Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 My time in the military has told me this: 1. Big Blue will violate all kinds of laws, etc in Big Blue's interest. 2. Even if the barracks lawyer is correct, said lawyer usually pays for it in the end. 3. The best strategy is usually say "yes, sir" and then do whatever the fvck you want and fly under the radar. disclaimer: anyone who knows me will tell you that I had to learn most of that the hard way 4
HossHarris Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 CL may mean "contract lodging" in the afi above. Remember, despite what the lodging manager will tell you, if it goes on your credit card, it is NOT contract lodging. Just because the manager/base has some deal with the local Roach motel doesn't mean you have to use it. 2
Azimuth Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, faipmafiaofficial said: If commanders give unlawful orders then the IG won't have their back. The schoolhouse cc clause in appendix O was removed in December of 2016. It is no longer in the JTR anywhere that a CC is allowed to take away your rights and entitlements given to you by federal law. I don't think you'd like a lawyer telling you how to fly, lawyers don't like pilots telling them how to interpret law. If you think CC's don't consult the base JA for almost every piece of paperwork they issue someone (especially in AETC), then I have some beach front property to sell you in Wyoming. Also if you knew anything about how IG complaints worked, which it sounds like you don't, the first question they ask you is "have you tried to resolve this through your chain of command?" Good luck. Edited March 31, 2017 by Azimuth
faipmafiaofficial Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 33 minutes ago, Azimuth said: I don't think you'd like a lawyer telling you how to fly, lawyers don't like pilots telling them how to interpret law. If you think CC's don't consult the base JA for almost every piece of paperwork they issue someone (especially in AETC), then I have some beach front property to sell you in Wyoming. Also if you knew anything about how IG complaints worked, which it sounds like you don't, the first question they ask you is "have you tried to resolve this through your chain of command?" Good luck. Y'all are right I have no idea what I'm talking about
Homestar Posted March 31, 2017 Posted March 31, 2017 1 hour ago, faipmafiaofficial said: Y'all are right I have no idea what I'm talking about There. That wasn't so hard now, was it? 2
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