ACSC in the Guard

[Jaded]

1 hour ago, herkbum said:

I believe you are correct, yearly on your "anniversary". I completed another year last week, so hopefully mine will be updated.

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If this is the case, it makes it difficult to tell where you're at in a given year without some sort of personal tacking system. Not a big deal if you're a normal TR, but for min running IMAs I could see it getting challenging.

[herkbum]

Shouldn't be too bad. 1 pt=1 AD day, or 1 UTA, or 3 study hrs for military correspondence courses. You also get 15 annual membership pts. The only cap to yearly pts is 365 (366 leap year) to apply toward retirement. But, yes, you would need to personally track.


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[Duck]

Still 83 points for completing ACSC in the ANG? Do you input it through AROWS?


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[Scooter14]

Still 83 points for completing ACSC in the ANG? Do you input it through AROWS?


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Duck,

I’ll have to check and see how many points I got, but I didn’t have to do anything, they just showed up in my PCARS summary eventually.

I wanna say it’s ECI points or something like that.

[Duck]

Duck,

I’ll have to check and see how many points I got, but I didn’t have to do anything, they just showed up in my PCARS summary eventually.

I wanna say it’s ECI points or something like that.

Thanks brother!


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[JJJ]

On 3/10/2017 at 4:43 AM, nsplayr said:

You also earn 83 points for completing the ACSC course in the ARC, so if you're not a full-time guy that's another way to get a few months of gimmie points toward that check of the month club. 

Good Day,

So USN, LCDR here about to complete ACSC and interested in these 83 points you mention for reserve retirement. Any idea who to talk to make this happen on the USAF and USN side? Forms etc?

Thanks.

J

[jcollins]

On 3/10/2017 at 7:58 PM, herkbum said:

@nsplayer OPRs do count now. We have had them sent back from JFHQ and told to rewrite them. It all depends who is running JFHQ on what weight they carry. Current group puts A LOT of emphasis on them, so wordsmithing is huge. I hate playing that stupid game, but we don't have a choice now. Luckily our guys are doing great things with no shit numbers that seem to baffle the head shed. Can't argue with facts.


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I have seen NGB kick back a position vacancy federal recognition package before due to OPRs.  If your JFHQ is making you rewrite them them, they are helping you out in the long run if it doesn't appear that way.

[jcollins]

On 10/20/2019 at 4:37 PM, JJJ said:

Good Day,

So USN, LCDR here about to complete ACSC and interested in these 83 points you mention for reserve retirement. Any idea who to talk to make this happen on the USAF and USN side? Forms etc?

Thanks.

J

Are you a part-time reservist?  In the Air Force we have something called a PCARS (points summary) and they automatically flow there from Air University, no form needed.  Maybe you can talk to Air University about your specific situation.

[JJJ]

10 hours ago, jcollins said:

Are you a part-time reservist?  In the Air Force we have something called a PCARS (points summary) and they automatically flow there from Air University, no form needed.  Maybe you can talk to Air University about your specific situation.

Yea, USNR we call it SELRES.

Just finished RE-II and waiting for final grade. Now not quite sure how it carries over to Navy records to get the JPME-I and 83 reserve points credit. I would assume USN does as well, not just USAF.

No one at AU seems to know....

Best,

J

[herkbier]

Thread revival.. regarding the max of 130 inactive points in a year and 83 for ACSC. Are those ACSC points awarded at the completion of the entire program, or each individual course?

Just trying to understand, if each year I max out TPs and UTAs, am I losing out on about half of those ACSC points. Don’t know how I’d realistically max them out, just curious though. 

[nunya]

I finished AWC a few weeks ago.  Points were awarded in PCARS after each class.

[herkbier]

4 hours ago, nunya said:

I finished AWC a few weeks ago.  Points were awarded in PCARS after each class.

Awesome, thanks!

[FUSEPLUG]

Speaking of ACSC...

What is the general stance regarding promotions in Guard units right now for those who elect not to do ACSC in correspondence?

I am rolling the dice after giving up way too much of my life to SOS and Masters bullshit while on AD. I really cannot stomach the thought of subjecting myself to another Air University time bandit. We’ve had a few guys in my unit promote with fewer career/flying-relates boxes checked than I have.  Just curious how other units have been treating ACSC lately. 

[Guardian]

Depends on your unit and states policy. Official regulatory NGB guidance is that it isn’t required for at least ROPMA (7 year boarded promotion) not sure about AGR/Tech/ promotion vacancy.

[brabus]

1 hour ago, FUSEPLUG said:

Speaking of ACSC...

What is the general stance regarding promotions in Guard units right now for those who elect not to do ACSC in correspondence?

I am rolling the dice after giving up way too much of my life to SOS and Masters bullshit while on AD. I really cannot stomach the thought of subjecting myself to another Air University time bandit. We’ve had a few guys in my unit promote with fewer career/flying-relates boxes checked than I have.  Just curious how other units have been treating ACSC lately. 

Some units culturally do ROPMA to O-5...no ACSC, but it does mean you promote 3 years later than you otherwise would have. You don’t care now, but you might once you do the financial math...I would have lost out on almost $30k in the aggregate (counting BAH differential). So personally it came down to, “can I stomach doing ACSC for an additional $30k?” Yes I could.

Additionally ROPMA is not a guarantee, seems dependent on the state; can’t speak to AFRES personally, but do know a guy who’s on thin ice and may be pushed out by shitty leadership (he refused to do ACSC)...and he’s one of the highest producing individuals in the AF, so if he gets booted, nobody stands a chance in that corner of AFRES.

[SocialD]

3 hours ago, FUSEPLUG said:

What is the general stance regarding promotions in Guard units right now for those who elect not to do ACSC in correspondence?

I am rolling the dice after giving up way too much of my life to SOS and Masters bullshit while on AD. I really cannot stomach the thought of subjecting myself to another Air University time bandit.

 

Depends big time on your ATAG.  Right now, ours doesn't require it, but you'll go to ROPMA (2 year delay).  I'm a prior-e that would have had to stay to 23 or 24 years if I had waited for ROPMA...something I really didn't want to do.  I bit the bullet and finished ACSC while deployed or otherwise in a pay status.  

 

Weird enough, some states/units REQUIRE you to ROPMA to O-4!  Not sure why you'd purposely do that to your people but I know of at least 2 states that do it.  Sounds like they have a problem of letting senior O-5s stick around too long, or their unit is low on control grades.  Admittedly, we're on the high side of control grades right now, which means we currently have a ridiculous amount of O-5s.  

 

 

1 hour ago, brabus said:

You don’t care now, but you might once you do the financial math...I would have lost out on almost $30k in the aggregate (counting BAH differential). So personally it came down to, “can I stomach doing ACSC for an additional $30k?” Yes I could.

 

I reached the same conclusion as you Brabus.  It earned me an extra ~$15k this year, however his was a deployment year for me so this isn't the norm..  As a true DSG, if I do all my AFTPs/UTAs/AT, it's only a difference of ~$6k/yr.  So if I retire, right at the 3 years TIG, it will have made me an extra $27k.  Not bad considering I knocked ACSC out while being paid.

 

 

1 hour ago, brabus said:

Additionally ROPMA is not a guarantee, seems dependent on the state; can’t speak to AFRES personally, but do know a guy who’s on thin ice and may be pushed out by shitty leadership (he refused to do ACSC)...and he’s one of the highest producing individuals in the AF, so if he gets booted, nobody stands a chance in that corner of AFRES.

 

Ya man, be happy to be in the Guard on that one...AFRC is a totally different animal.  If you're looking for O-5, you're likely better off in the ANG.  I pinned on O-5 well before many of my 2nd assignment B-Course IPs who later moved to AFRC.

[FUSEPLUG]

I appreciate the replies, guys.

I’ve got two more years to ROPMA. If that means I have to hang out until 21 or 22 years to get the TIG, so be it. If (when) the next pandemic (election year) hits the airlines, I’ll probably be thankful for the DSG side gig. 

[Guardian]

NGB doesn’t require it per their own regulation. I know of such a state that requires ADSC to promote and have a particular individual, from the wing CC level, a DNP. Guess what. That individual promoted anyways. Not sure what happened. But it did.

[Gazmo]

Late to the convo here but...most states require it for a PV, but if you have strong OPR's and competitive qualifications, you shouldn't need ACSC. I recently promoted ROPMA without it. I did the math a while back and it wasn't worth it for me knowing that I probably wouldn't have an issue getting promoted without it. I was an ART for many years as a pretty busy shop chief and then left the fulltime world for the airlines. I wasn't willing to make time for PME. My unit was also notorious for not PV'ing people anyway (unless you one of the "chosen ones"). I had showed my airline card several years before I finally actually got hired so I wasn't going to bite off on that carrot.

[SocialD]

12 hours ago, Gazmo said:

Late to the convo here but...most states require it for a PV, but if you have strong OPR's and competitive qualifications, you shouldn't need ACSC. I recently promoted ROPMA without it. I did the math a while back and it wasn't worth it for me knowing that I probably wouldn't have an issue getting promoted without it. I was an ART for many years as a pretty busy shop chief and then left the fulltime world for the airlines. I wasn't willing to make time for PME. My unit was also notorious for not PV'ing people anyway (unless you one of the "chosen ones"). I had showed my airline card several years before I finally actually got hired so I wasn't going to bite off on that carrot.

 

Good words, especially if you're in a unit, that for some reason doesn't seem to PV people.  It's a sad day in the Guard when you have leaders who don't PV guys even if there are spots and when you have to worry about "showing your airline cards."  A question I was asked, and we still ask during UPT interviews is, "we are a part time force and full time jobs aren't always available, what are your plans for full time employment?"  The mission of the full timers is to ensure we have a good part time force...part time should be welcomed, not shunned.   

Edited May 7, 2021 by SocialD

[Gazmo]

I suppose if you are chasing every last dollar and you know your unit will give you a DP on a PV, it may be worth it. I can tell you that if you are an AC (heavy world) with weak OPRs, you may get passed over. If you are an IP/EP with some significant bullets/strats in your OPRs, you should be fine. I was a shop chief, was involved with many Sq functions/additonal duties and was a deployed DO during my time as an O-4 and of course that was all on my previous OPR's leading up to my O-5 ROPMA board.

Like anything else, what is your time worth to you? Do you have the time to do PME? It's not the old program it used to be and requires some significant time, which just can't be knocked out all in one deployment like before. Are you an airline guy on 2-3rd year pay? You can make more cash at your company picking up extra trips vs. Getting promoted 3 years early any day of the week.

[SocialD]

28 minutes ago, Gazmo said:

I suppose if you are chasing every last dollar and you know your unit will give you a DP on a PV, it may be worth it. I can tell you that if you are an AC (heavy world) with weak OPRs, you may get passed over. If you are an IP/EP with some significant bullets/strats in your OPRs, you should be fine. I was a shop chief, was involved with many Sq functions/additonal duties and was a deployed DO during my time as an O-4 and of course that was all on my previous OPR's leading up to my O-5 ROPMA board.

 

Are you in the Reserves or ANG...or is it just that different in the heavy world?  Aside from one guy going for O-6, I've seriously never heard of anyone being passed over in the ANG, ever.  I've never even heard of people worrying about a DP vs P, or if they'll be passed over or how their OPR looks, even for their O-5 board.  You're in the Guard, your job is not necessarily to go out and get every qual known to man, not to have a bunch of additional duties and not to seek out OPR fodder.  Your job is to maintain your currencies and be ready to go as needed.  That said, I agree with your assessment on going to a ROPMA board...if you have all that fluff, there should be no way you're not promoted at the ROPMA board.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Gazmo said:

Like anything else, what is your time worth to you? Do you have the time to do PME? It's not the old program it used to be and requires some significant time, which just can't be knocked out all in one deployment like before. Are you an airline guy on 2-3rd year pay? You can make more cash at your company picking up extra trips vs. Getting promoted 3 years early any day of the week.

 

You get 4 or 5 years to finish it.  I did ACSC over 2 deployments and while on UTAs/AFTPs/other orders while I was a 3-5 year WB FO...sometimes I'd work on it on a rainy overnight in AMS.  I did the program you mention (not the old one), where it has like 4 proctored applied sections and 8 unproctored sections.  We did have a guy in the squadron (3rd UPS dude) who knocked it out in 6 months...dude was somehow signed up for 2 different proctored course at the same time.  I'm definitely not advocating that everyone should do it, but it sure can be done with relative ease while being paid.  I most definitely  wouldn't be doing it while NOT in some form of pay status. 

 

[Gazmo]

ANG tankers. I have definitely seen a few get passed over for O-5 on ROPMA boards in the past 5 years or so. All of them were DSG types with no PME and weak OPR's.

[Chida]

Another way of looking at this: bottom line is difference in retirement pay.

O-4 with 5000 points = $2976/mo or $35.7k per yr

O-5 with 5083 points = $3570/mo or $42.8k per yr

For a difference of $7.1k per yr (starting at ~age 60) is it worth your time to do ACSC?

[SocialD]

23 hours ago, Gazmo said:

ANG tankers. I have definitely seen a few get passed over for O-5 on ROPMA boards in the past 5 years or so. All of them were DSG types with no PME and weak OPR's.

 

Crazy.  Well we'll soon have a guy headed to ROPMA for O-5.  He's a one-each great dude, been a part timer most of his career, is a FLT/CC, 4-Ship FL (non-IP), never the head of a shop and he didn't do SOS or ACSC.  He however is a very active participate that goes on every squadron TDY/deployment and he can grow a righteous mustache.  I guess he'll be our latest trial case to see what happens.    

 

I heard of some wild shit happened in the tanker wing in our state, under a different TAG.  Dude was Federally recognized as a Lt Col, but not State recognized (I don't know the proper verbiage) because TAG didn't like that he hadn't done SOS or ACSC.  SOOOOO, he got paid as a O-5, but had to wear O-4 rank while doing state duties.  I could be screwing that up, but I think that's the story.  That's what I call two birds, one stone!