Pilot shortage/FWQ

[magnus017]

With this major shortage of pilots that the AF is currently dealing with, is there any hope of a FWQ course or equivalent ever returning? How about a transfer from Army C-12's? I know this topic has been covered before but info changes over time.

[zVo]

Bringing back the FWQ or extending the age for UPT would help the Air Force fill the gap, but that makes too much sense so I doubt it will happen. 

[HuggyU2]

9 hours ago, magnus017 said:

How about a transfer from Army C-12's? 

What do you mean "a transfer"?  Into UPT?  Or directly into a USAF fixed-wing unit?

Last I recall, Army C-12 pilots had never been through a military fixed-wing program.  

[BFM this]

3 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

What do you mean "a transfer"?  Into UPT?  Or directly into a USAF fixed-wing unit?

Last I recall, Army C-12 pilots had never been through a military fixed-wing program.  

Which at least raises the question of the need for a FWQ program.

Cobra-->Fighters, sure: FWQ + IFF

Army C-12 --> KC-135 ....?

At the very least it should be a syllabus with liberal SPA opportunity.

My only point is that we (AF) bend over backwards trying to avoid the easy button.

Edited April 11, 2017 by BFM this

[slc]

Sorry for the thread hijack.  Aren't they offering age waivers for UPT (especially if prior Nav)?  Anyone hear the ages picked up?  37,38,40??

[HeloDude]

7 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Last I recall, Army C-12 pilots had never been through a military fixed-wing program.  

What do you call the Army C-12 fixed wing program?

[HuggyU2]

2 hours ago, HeloDude said:

What do you call the Army C-12 fixed wing program?

My phrasing was a "military fixed wing program".  Going through one month at FlightSafety is not one of those.  

Is that still how Army helicopter pilots transition into Army C-12's? 

Edited April 11, 2017 by HuggyU2

[BUM15]

5 hours ago, slc said:

Sorry for the thread hijack.  Aren't they offering age waivers for UPT (especially if prior Nav)?  Anyone hear the ages picked up?  37,38,40??

I have seen and heard of Navs at UPT as captains and Majors. I think it depends if your unit wants to go to bat for you and do the paperwork 

[LookieRookie]

4 hours ago, HeloDude said:

 

There was a reservist 12F WIC instructor that went through UPT a few years ago as a Lt Col(s). He pinned on in Phase 3.

 

I'm pretty sure he had some stars backing his ETP. Especially since he didn't have a unit until Phase 3.

Edited April 11, 2017 by LookieRookie

[D_Vezencuando]

12 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

My phrasing was a "military fixed wing program".  Going through one month at FlightSafety is not one of those.  

Is that still how Army helicopter pilots transition into Army C-12's? 

Fixed Wing Multi Engine Qual Course seems legit based on the former helo guys in our program. One way to look at it ... When was the last time an Air Force IP pulled an engine at 25 AGL?

 

[Torch09]

16 hours ago, BUM15 said:

I have seen and heard of Navs at UPT as captains and Majors. I think it depends if your unit wants to go to bat for you and do the paperwork 

This year's UFT board had a blanket age waiver for at least RPA, can't remember it was for all three options (Pilot, CSO, RPA).  That would apply to any active duty officer wanting to apply to a rated slot.  

 

For reserve/ANG units, it's totally up to the unit.  They're funding the training and understand what they're getting in return, in terms of lifespan of useful service vs. resources invested.  Captains are very common, especially as prior CSOs, and I saw a few majors roll through.  

[HeloDude]

22 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

My phrasing was a "military fixed wing program".  Going through one month at FlightSafety is not one of those.  

Is that still how Army helicopter pilots transition into Army C-12's? 

Wait, you're suggesting it's not a military fixed wing program, yet you don't know how long the training is, what it encompasses, etc?  And yes, it's definitely longer than one month.  I assume you're thinking of the program to train AF pilots for C-12 air attaché positions.

[xcraftllc]

23 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

My phrasing was a "military fixed wing program".  Going through one month at FlightSafety is not one of those.  

Is that still how Army helicopter pilots transition into Army C-12's? 

They complete a formal course in Dothan Alabama flying a variety of planes. It's a military program, although it is contracted through some companies like CAE. They have military and civilian instructors.

Laughlin was the last location for FWQ and had it's last class in 2012. Aside from the Army guys, the AF had previously used it to spool up the AF UHT graduates back when that was a thing.

They could bring it back but it would be quite a bit easier is to just make a blanket ETP for Army pilots and non-rated AF aircrew. Apparently the FWQ course didn't save them much money even though it involved less flying time. I also heard that the syllabus differences were frustrating in T-6s and many IPs felt like they were rushing the students through. To my understanding, the T-38 syllabus was no different than the regular UPT one (a good thing in my opinion), but the T-1 syllabus allowed them to complete the training at their own pace and leave early.

Having completed full UPT myself, I'm very glad I did. Not only are planes much different than helicopters, but the way the AF conducts it's flying operations in general is vastly different and far more complicated. It was invaluable to get the whole experience from the mindset of a clean slate, much like the guys with a lot of civilian time have to if they want to be successful in the AF.

At Laughlin I saw a 38 year old Buff WSO get through T-38s just fine and become a T-38 FAIP. I also saw a 35 year old former Army Captain get through T-1s like it was a joke to go on to fly KC-135s for the New Hampshire guard so I don't see why the AF couldn't make a blanket policy for such cases, maybe up to 40 years old?

*It should be noted though that this isn't really related the pilot shortage. That's mainly an issue of retaining pilots. They can increase the output from pilot training but that's it's own struggle in it's own that FWQ wouldn't necessarily help (even with a bit less hours than regular UPT). If they could find a way to make it truly more efficient than regular UPT then maybe it could help, especially for the prior Army Fixed Wing guys.

Edited April 12, 2017 by xcraftllc
To add the note at the end.

[HuggyU2]

1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

Wait, you're suggesting it's not a military fixed wing program, yet you don't know how long the training is, what it encompasses, etc?  And yes, it's definitely longer than one month.  I assume you're thinking of the program to train AF pilots for C-12 air attaché positions.

My limited knowledge came from talking to the three Army pilots that applied to the U-2 program many years ago when I worked the inter service transfers for pilots from other Services.  They were helicopter pilots that had gone through the Army's fixed wing qual.  Two were flying King Airs, and one was flying the ARL.  It's been close to 15 years since that happened, and possibly a lot has changed... and your post alludes to the fact that it has.  

xcraftllc:  thank you for the detailed information.  Excellent post.  

Edited April 12, 2017 by HuggyU2