AFPAK Hands- Opportunity Beckons

[astan777]

11 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Regarding your point about seeing the tragedy of our AFG mission up close, I'd love to hear more anecdotes or experiences from yourself or other hands.  

It is impossible to invest two years in Afghanistan and leave feeling optimistic about the future.  Flying missions from BAF is great but it doesn't capture the dysfunction going on inside Kabul.  Also, many don't have a sense of the sheer level of fear and desperation most Afghans feel as we linger in this strategic vacuum created by the drawdown.  Nothing in Afghanistan is sustainable, almost everything is breaking, and ANA attrition rates outstrip their ability to regenerate.  The whole arrangement is held together by the United States current willingness to bulldoze piles of cash towards the problem and mediate political infighting at the palace.

Purchasing UH-60s for the Afghan Air Force is just the latest example of high-order buffoonery.

[dream big]

18 hours ago, Hacker said:

My airline's AFPAK Hands program will station you at the Kuala Lumpur Beach Club Café with a tall drink and a companion who will be happy to keep you company, GI.

KL has nothing on Bangkok, and other "hot-spots" in Thailand!  

[yin&yang]

7 hours ago, Crackity Jones said:

I stand corrected. Back to the original point, I don't personally know of any rated officers in AFPAK Hands who have subsequently held command. I know of a few non-rated who were removed by their communities half way through the program to take command, but they were likely going to regardless of AFPAK Hands. Suffice to say I don't know of anyone who volunteered that wanted a traditional career path.

https://www.airuniversity.af.mil/Portals/10/SOC/documents/Bios/SOC_Commander_Bio.pdf

[pawnman]

19 minutes ago, yin&yang said:

https://www.airuniversity.af.mil/Portals/10/SOC/documents/Bios/SOC_Commander_Bio.pdf

If I'm reading that bio right, he only did two years of the 4-year program?  One year of language, one year in country?

[HU&W]

19 minutes ago, pawnman said:

If I'm reading that bio right, he only did two years of the 4-year program?  One year of language, one year in country?

The date of the first job after AFPAK coincides with O-6 pin-on.  The centcom job was probably a more important fill for an O-6.

[matmacwc]

9 hours ago, Crackity Jones said:

I stand corrected. Back to the original point, I don't personally know of any rated officers in AFPAK Hands who have subsequently held command. I know of a few non-rated who were removed by their communities half way through the program to take command, but they were likely going to regardless of AFPAK Hands. Suffice to say I don't know of anyone who volunteered that wanted a traditional career path.

I know 1, and I know a lot of peeps in mother AF.

[ClearedHot]

On 4/18/2017 at 6:48 AM, pawnman said:

One might ask why the Air Force has chosen 24 years as make-or-break for general, the earliest of any service.

The absolute root cause of so many of the current problems. 

"Picking" an officer as a captain long before their leadership is truly proven and pushing them uphill regardless of their flaws creates caustic entitled assholes.  When we end up with folks who destroy the morale of units, commit sins that are white washed away (right after they hammer a subordinate for the same sin), and show questionable leadership while flying only to have the superiors say "we can't afford for him/her to fail, we have invested too much and we need another GO."  This is why the institution is failing and this is why the concerns of the masses do not resonate with most of the current leadership.

[tac airlifter]

23 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

The absolute root cause of so many of the current problems. 

Concur all.  But the people who could change it are the same people who have benefited by it and see no reason to change it.  Is this an un-fixable problem?

[tac airlifter]

11 hours ago, astan777 said:

It is impossible to invest two years in Afghanistan and leave feeling optimistic about the future. ..... Nothing in Afghanistan is sustainable, almost everything is breaking, and ANA attrition rates outstrip their ability to regenerate. 

Tribalism seems sustainable.  Their agrarian lifestyle seems sustainable, at least at a subsistence level.  If the country remains a poor backwater, we don't really care so long as international terrorists don't base there, right?  What do you think we should be doing differently, on a strategic engagement level? 

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

The absolute root cause of so many of the current problems. 

"Picking" an officer as a captain long before there leadership is truly proven and pushing them uphill regardless of their flaws creates caustic entitled assholes.  When we end up with folks who destroy the morale of units, commit sins that are white washed away (right after they hammer a subordinate for the same sin), and show questionable leadership while flying only to have the superiors say "we can't afford for him/her to fail, we have invested too much and we need another GO."  This is why the institution is failing and this is why the concerns of the masses do not resonate with most of the current leadership.

standby for those same "caustic entitled assholes" to be spared another round of selection to this great leadership APH opportunity!

[ClearedHot]

13 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Concur all.  But the people who could change it are the same people who have benefited by it and see no reason to change it.  Is this an un-fixable problem?

Until there is a titanic shift we are stuck with this system.

[pawnman]

17 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Concur all.  But the people who could change it are the same people who have benefited by it and see no reason to change it.  Is this an un-fixable problem?

Probably not.  The rated officer shortage may turn out to be a blessing in disguise.  With so many fewer officers in the pool for O-6 and subsequently O-7, the Air Force will have to start re-thinking who is and isn't eligible to hold those spots.

[Weezer]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

Tribalism seems sustainable.  Their agrarian lifestyle seems sustainable, at least at a subsistence level.  If the country remains a poor backwater, we don't really care so long as international terrorists don't base there, right?  What do you think we should be doing differently, on a strategic engagement level? 

Leverage China's desire to establish their New Silk Road effort to bring some economic prosperity to the region.  Once you have legitimate commerce (not donor funding or drug proceeds), you'll start to see things settle down, although it will not look like the West.  You will have tribes and strongmen.  We need to be okay with that.

Once there's some stability, then China will start exploiting the natural resources...which will bring more money and ideally further stability.

Furthermore, we need to be fostering engagement between Pakistan and India to figure out the Kashmir issue.  Pakistan is fomenting insurgency in Afghanistan, because Afghanistan gravitates towards India.  Pakistan doesn't want to be hemmed in on both sides.

Once Pakistan stops stoking the Taliban, Afghanistan will simmer down to the quiet backwater it should be.

[Weezer]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

"Picking" an officer as a captain long before there leadership is truly proven and pushing them uphill regardless of their flaws creates caustic entitled assholes.  When we end up with folks who destroy the morale of units, commit sins that are white washed away (right after they hammer a subordinate for the same sin), and show questionable leadership while flying only to have the superiors say "we can't afford for him/her to fail, we have invested too much and we need another GO."  This is why the institution is failing and this is why the concerns of the masses do not resonate with most of the current leadership.

Absolutely.  I was privy to the inner turmoil of a guy who got mild paperwork for some fairly modest and harmless buffoonery on a deployment a few years ago.  Admonishment only, no UIF.  The dude in question did some serious soul searching and came out the better for it.  He was able to understand the impact of paperwork when he had to give it a few years later, and was able to talk a few other dudes through some similar challenges.  But his paperwork cost him a dec and probably a strat, so he won't be taking that wisdom anywhere further.

[RTB]

3 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

The absolute root cause of so many of the current problems. 

"Picking" an officer as a captain long before there leadership is truly proven and pushing them uphill regardless of their flaws creates caustic entitled assholes.  When we end up with folks who destroy the morale of units, commit sins that are white washed away (right after they hammer a subordinate for the same sin), and show questionable leadership while flying only to have the superiors say "we can't afford for him/her to fail, we have invested too much and we need another GO."  This is why the institution is failing and this is why the concerns of the masses do not resonate with most of the current leadership.

This is so spot on

[Skitzo]

Absolutely.  I was privy to the inner turmoil of a guy who got mild paperwork for some fairly modest and harmless buffoonery on a deployment a few years ago.  Admonishment only, no UIF.  The dude in question did some serious soul searching and came out the better for it.  He was able to understand the impact of paperwork when he had to give it a few years later, and was able to talk a few other dudes through some similar challenges.  But his paperwork cost him a dec and probably a strat, so he won't be taking that wisdom anywhere further.

Yup, keep promoting the shiny pennies who "never fail" or have their failures hidden from them so as to protect their precious egos.

That way when they are commanders and leaders they have absolutely no idea how to deal with failures because their failures were washed away.




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[astan777]

13 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

If the country remains a poor backwater, we don't really care so long as international terrorists don't base there, right?  What do you think we should be doing differently, on a strategic engagement level? 

The United States desperately wants to extricate itself from Afghanistan so it can better focus on a number of more important issues; Islamic State, China, Russia, NK, etc.  Afghanistan is virtually ignored within the broader national security community.  We're sick of it.  There are brush fires elsewhere that need to be addressed before they become major problems.  We just don't know how to wrap this thing up.  It's a textbook quagmire.  It was also a leadership problem, on both the civ and mil side, which stretches back across the past two administrations.

I'm hopeful McMaster's deliberate policy review will pave the road for a dignified exit sometime in the next 10-15 years.  I can only speculate what it will involve, but it'll probably require a modification of the broader Resolute Support mission.  We need to take a long, hard look at how we do TAA and its overall effectiveness.  The CT mission is here to stay.  We'll start bringing in more regional partners and pray that the Taliban are either compelled or coerced to finally come to the negotiation table.  There happens to be a first cohort AFPAK Hand sitting on the NSC no doubt working on the new policy; if his team throws a hail mary and nails it, I like to think the program will finally realize its original purpose of achieving strategic effects.  Then, everything will be forgiven.

Edited April 20, 2017 by astan777
grammer

[panchbarnes]

Page 49 of attached document

Strange Bedfellows in Afghanistan:
New Prospects for a Negotiated Settlement with the Taliban

FAO Journal_fall16.pdf

[Warrior]

I'm trying to teach the younger guys to speak up and think before making a decision. Someone told me the other day he gave a snacko position to an officer who wasn't enthusiastic about the job. I told him you don't give that type of job to an officer who is coming from a previous AFSC or who was prior enlisted because it's demeaning to them. You have to know who needs to be challenged job wise. Nobody joins the AF to setup snack stands and to plan parties. I told the individual you have to know when to push back if the boss wants to make someone a snacko who came from a different AFSC. Remind the boss of the individual's background and where they​ might be able to contribute in the squadron.

Anyway, said individual got moved to a far better position. He was excited about his new job in the squadron. He sought out my opinion and mentorship regarding the matter.

Is making an officer a snacko and a party planner a good investment? How many of you guys were a snacko but managed to become a DG or a WIC grad?

I was a snacko and I became a DG WIC grad.

What's your point? That snacko is below some people? But only people coming from other AFSCs? Those are the people who need the humility lesson that comes with being a snacko.

I'm a patch and deployed as an exec. Was it demeaning to make the general's coffee every morning?


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[war007afa]

On 4/18/2017 at 7:48 AM, pawnman said:

One might ask why the Air Force has chosen 24 years as make-or-break for general, the earliest of any service.

One may ask why the Air Force wastes billions of man-hours and people meeting "requirements" to even be eligible for O-7 when we're statistically positioning 1% of our force beyond this mark. 

"Joint and school for everyone because they may compete for O-7!"  99% of us will never achieve this end-state. And on top of this, boards make it a discrimination for O-6 a whole 4-years prior to it even coming into the calculus. 

We need a better way. 

[astan777]

6 hours ago, cantfly said:

 

10-15 years...WTH? Tax payer money is being outright abused in Afghanistan. Paying for false names on the ANA bankroll. Buying equipment the ANA abandon so the Taliban can acquire it. When will leadership understand Afghans for the most part are uneducated, can't read, and know they have far more resolve than we do.

Yes, at least another decade.  We bet the farm on ANA ability to secure the country so we could leave.  But it has become clear we put the cart (withdraw deadline) before the horse (conditions on the ground necessary to leave).  This is where you get the "Afghan good enough" phenomenon.  Hilariously, stop-light charts mapping ANA progress at ISAF went from red to green overnight back when we were hellbent on showing policymakers that, yes, of course, no doubt, the ANA were an outstanding force ready to take the fight to the Taliban.

[brabus]

Quote

I told him you don't give that type of job to an officer who is coming from a previous AFSC or who was prior enlisted because it's demeaning to them. 

It's demeaning? Tell that SNAP to quit whining and make corn and god help him if that beer fridge goes empty.  I don't give a fuck what his rank or previous experience was. Guess as a Maj I should stop helping take out the trash, carry in beer from the car, and ocassionally make corn...yep that menial shit is beneath me!

Unrelated, I Google AFPAK hands to see what this thing was, and it appears to be one of the worst deals out there. ~3 moves in 4 years, a year in one of the shittiest countries on this planet, and 4 years out of the tactical world. This is the furthest thing from "opportunity" I can imagine. Good luck Chang in bagging some poor bastard for this deal. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by brabus

[Hacker]

I was a snacko once as a Lt Col, and I was the best goddamn snacko that squadron ever saw.

[tac airlifter]

8 minutes ago, cantfly said:

When you indoctrinate a person into the snacko mindset they go from making corn to thinking it's cool to serve up cups of java with sugar and cream. You walk into the bar and that snacko goes, "Sir, would you like an espresso, cappuccino, or coffee today?" You're thinking to yourself this kid is ready for exec now as you request an espresso.

What the hell are you talking about bro?  

[HossHarris]

Field grade snackos are awesome