AFPAK Hands- Opportunity Beckons

[dream big]

7 hours ago, Warrior said:

 

I was a snacko and I became a DG WIC grad.

What's your point? That snacko is below some people? But only people coming from other AFSCs? Those are the people who need the humility lesson that comes with being a snacko.

I'm a patch and deployed as an exec. Was it demeaning to make the general's coffee every morning?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

 

 No but it was a waste of resources.  They sent you to WIC to come back and train young snackos to go to war and not get themselves killed, not do the general's bitch work.  I'm sure you felt the same at the time.  But I see your point, you probably kept your head down and didn't gripe about it.  At least not in public haha!

[dream big]

34 minutes ago, cantfly said:

 

Jalapeno corn is important, but the privileges were taken away due to SARM complaints about the smell. The SARM office has become a major player in the AF. SARM has turned in a squadron for offensive material and taken jalapeno corn away practically overnight. They are 2 for 2 now.

 

When jalapeno corn is being made the boss could have told the SARM office they can go "MOPP level -1." Then dawn their M50 gas masks and count the training as credit in lieu of the CBRN CBT. Guess that's why I'm not a CC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LMBO.. You got me.

 

 

Are you shitting me? I forgot we exist for the SARM shop.  SARM literally gets the most unmotivated airmen.  It's been a trend item at every base.  I even told this to our old harm chief who worked out with me a few times and he flat out agreed.  He spent most of his day holding the fire to the airmen.  Getting orders done everyday was like pulling teeth.

Was it not SARM that caused the great purge?

[Warrior]

5 hours ago, cantfly said:

You seem like you are taking my question personally based on your post. It was a question in general, so relax.

I'm not taking it personally, just offering my own experience which seems to break your mold. 

I'm saying yes, not every officer needs to be a snacko or an exec for that matter. I want to still believe you can carve your own career path in the AF if you stay true to yourself. Some officers need to be challenged beyond being able to organize bags of skittles, pudding packs, and planning parties. How does the job help you learn more about being the best pilot?

It doesn't have jack to do with what the individual needs or wants or "being true to yourself". Jobs that people don't want have everything to do with what the machine needs. And yes, the machine (squadron) needs a snacko. And execs. Some people want to be an exec. I'm not (nor have I ever been) one of them. 

You can advance in your career and completely avoid doing those jobs if you have the desire.

Please educate me on how. I'll apply this lesson when it comes time to notch AFPAK hands. I've had some success getting to do jobs that I viewed as valuable, but I've gotten stuck with some that were complete ballwash. 

Tell them to their face to not be a douchebag. I would take Tactics, Stan Eval, and the Scheduling shop over snacko.

Candid feedback is valuable. We need more of it. To your point, snacko is not mutually exclusive with doing a "real" job. 

I'm not making coffee or getting anyones laundry for that matter. Back in the day you wanted to be that guy known for having the best hands, not making the best cappuccino.

GO: I like my coffee with cream and sugar.

Me: General, Google said there is a Starbucks located at xxxxx where you can get your coffee.

GO: You shouldn't be an exec.

Me: Copy, maybe you should have Juan Valdez and his faithful mule as your next exec.

You say that now. But when you get tagged to deploy to do exactly what you scoff you can either shit in everyone's cheerios or just shut up and do it. It doesn't matter whether you want the job, you got it. I'd love to share stories with you and @dream big over a beer. Laundry and coffee were the tip of the iceberg with one GO. Another GO (same deployment) was different and required much less handholding. 

 

3 hours ago, cantfly said:

I don't view it as whining. In my opinion, the individual actually has a SPINE.

When you indoctrinate a person into the snacko mindset they go from making corn to thinking it's cool to serve up cups of java with sugar and cream. You walk into the bar and that snacko goes, "Sir, would you like an espresso, cappuccino, or coffee today?" You would say to yourself, this kid is ready for exec now as you request a venti espresso with nonfat milk to go.

There's a world of difference between being the butt boy who volunteers for every shitty deal hoping to get attention and doing what needs to be done.

The squadron needs a snacko, someone needs to do it. Might as well have fun with it like the FGOs who did it later in life.  

 

And now back to you regularly scheduled AFPAK Hands discussion.

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, gearpig said:

I'm not exactly sure what's going on here, but being a snacko in Afghanistan for 4 years sure sounds like a shit deal.

Those Afghan generals are very particular about how the goat is prepared.

[nsplayr]

Yea, missionary vs doggy vs reverse cowgirl can be a tough call sometimes. Not sure if the Koran calls out a preference...

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Those Afghan generals are very particular about how the goat is prepared.

With extra syphilis. 

[LookieRookie]

10 Taliban fighters kill 163 Afghan soldiers. Oh yeah, the security situation is improving, sign me up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/at-least-160-dead-after-taliban-attack-on-major-afghan-army-base-official-says/2017/04/22/239aa398-2750-11e7-a1b3-faff0034e2de_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_afghan-attacks-830am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f12298bcb95d

[General Chang]

30 minutes ago, LookieRookie said:

10 Taliban fighters kill 163 Afghan soldiers. Oh yeah, the security situation is improving, sign me up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/at-least-160-dead-after-taliban-attack-on-major-afghan-army-base-official-says/2017/04/22/239aa398-2750-11e7-a1b3-faff0034e2de_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_afghan-attacks-830am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f12298bcb95d

Precisely why we need airpower leaders in these key positions.  I intend to nonvol my absolute best flyers in the Wing here in Asia to these positions.  I am confident my fellow CCs will follow suit.  We need our best in these critical positions to win this war.  And I intend to reward them career-wise on the backside.

[Guest]

fellow CCs

Fellow CCs? Chang, I'd be surprised if you even had command over your own bowels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pawnman]

20 minutes ago, General Chang said:

Precisely why we need airpower leaders in these key positions.  I intend to nonvol my absolute best flyers in the Wing here in Asia to these positions.  I am confident my fellow CCs will follow suit.  We need our best in these critical positions to win this war.  And I intend to reward them career-wise on the backside.

You need your best to be target practice for the Taliban?  That's going to solve your pilot retention problem.

I predict you'll lose at least 5 people from just your wing when you non-vol them for this 4-year program.

As for rewarding them on the backside...how?  It's a four-year program.  If we buy the premise that you're currently a commander, then you'll be long gone by the time these guys are back to their communities.  It'll be some other staffer who has never heard of these guys making the decisions, and as we've seen in this thread, non-traditional career paths are not a good way to achieve traditional success.

Edited April 22, 2017 by pawnman

[Inertia17]

And if we needed any more evidence to know Chang is a troll, there it is.

[Goblin]

And if we needed any more evidence to know Chang is a troll, there it is.

He blew it. I was in doubt for the longest time, but it's not even fun anymore.

[Sprkt69]

On 4/20/2017 at 8:18 AM, cantfly said:

 

I don't view it as whining. In my opinion, the individual actually has a SPINE.

 

When you indoctrinate a person into the snacko mindset they go from making corn to thinking it's cool to serve up cups of java with sugar and cream. You walk into the bar and that snacko goes, "Sir, would you like an espresso, cappuccino, or coffee today?" You would say to yourself, this kid is ready for exec now as you request a venti espresso with nonfat milk to go.

 

Jalapeno corn is important, but the privileges were taken away due to SARM complaints about the smell. The SARM office has become a major player in the AF. SARM has turned in a squadron for offensive material and taken jalapeno corn away practically overnight. They are 2 for 2 now.

 

When jalapeno corn is being made the boss could have told the SARM office they can go "MOPP level -1." Then dawn their M50 gas masks and count the training as credit in lieu of the CBRN CBT. Guess that's why I'm not a CC.

What kind of SNAP world are you living in?

[HeloDude]

20 minutes ago, General Chang said:

Precisely why we need airpower leaders in these key positions.  I intend to nonvol my absolute best flyers in the Wing here in Asia to these positions.  I am confident my fellow CCs will follow suit.  We need our best in these critical positions to win this war.  And I intend to reward them career-wise on the backside.

Ok...now I realize that Chang is a pilot with awesome trolling techniques.  A personnelist (regardless of posistion in a wing) would never have the power/authority to "non-vol" a rated flyer to any deployment.  This would have to go through the OG and ultimately be cleared by the wing commander.  

Well played, Chang, well played...

[Homestar]

2 minutes ago, Goblin said:

 

He blew it. I was in doubt for the longest time, but it's not even fun anymore.

 

Move along folks. 

[AlifBaa]

On 4/17/2017 at 7:21 PM, astan777 said:

 

AB - I wanted to follow-up with this portion your otherwise excellent assessment.  Soul-crushing staff jobs aren't the sole providence of APH.  I watched my neighbor suffer through three painful years on the Joint Staff.  It took a tool on him physically and mentally, not to mention his family.  He was a great leader and went on to command, but by god did he pay for it during his time in DC.

Is it normal for folks to scheme and hustle finding a 3-4 star to make their command dreams come true?  We should should be ashamed if someone in our line of work is engaged in this behavior.

No APH has made GO, and I've never met one with that ambition.

I've seen this type of scenario play out several times, only one of which was directly from AFPh.  The hand is a current O-6 who will probably make O-7.  Some were good folks.  The hand is a despicable human being, but that doesn't have to be the case. :-)

Based on the last AFPC webinar for the Reconnaissance world, the only flyers going to staff are being placed by their OG/CC's.  Roughly the top 25% will go at all, half of those will go before or after IDE.  Obviously, the IDE crowd are on the short list for DO/CC.  The rest of the staffers are the backups for fallout.  If you weren't picked up for staff but want to command, this is theoretically a route to get the staff experience you need... the problem are all the other personnel system dynamics I talked about before.  Thus, the "best route" for that person is to execute a dramatic turn around and find a senior leader to sponsor you.  

IMO, that theoretical person's best route is to transition to the guard/reserve and try a fresh start over there.

[pawnman]

21 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Ok...now I realize that Chang is a pilot with awesome trolling techniques.  A personnelist (regardless of posistion in a wing) would never have the power/authority to "non-vol" a rated flyer to any deployment.  This would have to go through the OG and ultimately be cleared by the wing commander.  

Well played, Chang, well played...

I don't know about AFPC not non-voling people.  I've seen several get 365 notifications, while the WG/CC and OG/CC were in the dark about it.  Hell, just watched someone draw a 6-month to Iraq that bypassed the entire chain...went from AFGSC directly to the person being tasked. 

[08Dawg]

22 hours ago, General Chang said:

Precisely why we need airpower leaders in these key positions.  I intend to nonvol my absolute best flyers in the Wing here in Asia to these positions.  I am confident my fellow CCs will follow suit.  We need our best in these critical positions to win this war.  And I intend to reward them career-wise on the backside.

So you can get the few remaining real leaders in the Air Force killed off and finally have the shoe clerks be fully in charge?  And you paper-pushing desk monkeys are still SO confused why nobody is taking your blood money and running full speed for the door and the airlines instead.  Serious, almost service-crippling flyer shortage, but let's send the best flyer in the wing on a non-vol, non-flying four year assignment to chase goat-humpers and get shot at in a third world shithole.  Seems legit!

Oh wait...don't feed the troll. 

[HU&W]

On 4/22/2017 at 7:37 AM, General Chang said:

Precisely why we need airpower leaders in these key positions.  I intend to nonvol my absolute best flyers in the Wing here in Asia to these positions.  I am confident my fellow CCs will follow suit.  We need our best in these critical positions to win this war.  And I intend to reward them career-wise on the backside.

[Bender]

At what point exactly did it turn from "going off to war" to "an alternate duty location"? Seems like the root cause to me...


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[SurelySerious]

At what point exactly did it turn from "going off to war" to "an alternate duty location"? Seems like the root cause to me...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

Wait, I thought alternate duty location was what the mission suppression group did every Thursday afternoon when they close up shop and go to the bowling alley. No?

[Homestar]

10 hours ago, pawnman said:

....  Hell, just watched someone draw a 6-month to Iraq that bypassed the entire chain...went from AFGSC directly to the person being tasked. 

Personal foul, offense, 15-yard penalty, automatic first down. 

[flyusaf83]

On 4/22/2017 at 10:02 AM, HeloDude said:

Ok...now I realize that Chang is a pilot with awesome trolling techniques.  A personnelist (regardless of posistion in a wing) would never have the power/authority to "non-vol" a rated flyer to any deployment.  This would have to go through the OG and ultimately be cleared by the wing commander.  

Well played, Chang, well played...

You would think so. One day in 2014, around the middle of my FAIP tour, I logged into my email and had some email from someone in Djibouti congratulating me on my assignment and offering to help answer any questions I had. I had no clue what was going on. I figured the email was a mistake.

I asked my Sq/CC about it, and he hadn't heard a thing.  He did some digging. Turns out the base IDRC found out about my 179 a month earlier and forgot to tell me or my leadership about it. I found out via email from someone I didn't know, a month late. I had to rush to get all the training done to go, which took more time from my family.

My local leadership had no role in assigning me the deployment.  Hell, they didn't even get notified, since the shoe clerks in the IDRC screwed up.  It came from AFPC, since I met their magical formula for the gig.

 

[Mark1]

On 4/22/2017 at 8:37 AM, General Chang said:

Precisely why we need airpower leaders in these key positions.  I intend to nonvol my absolute best flyers in the Wing here in Asia to these positions.  I am confident my fellow CCs will follow suit.  We need our best in these critical positions to win this war.  And I intend to reward them career-wise on the backside.

You mean you're going to non-vol your best who will immediately 7-day opt, followed by the 2nd stringers who will do the same.  Once you whittle your way into the rest, you'll have your billets filled.  50% of those will punch on the back end after having their spirit crushed.  Anybody who was around to make empty promises to the remaining half on the front end will be long gone or up the chain and out of sight, leaving them non-competitive with their peers by any metric that the new commanders who didn't make the promises care about.

Solid plan.

[Scram]

On 4/22/2017 at 7:37 AM, General Chang said:

Precisely why we need airpower leaders in these key positions.  I intend to nonvol my absolute best flyers in the Wing here in Asia to these positions.  I am confident my fellow CCs will follow suit.  We need our best in these critical positions to win this war.  And I intend to reward them career-wise on the backside.

You'd never be able to identify the 'best flyers'