AFPAK Hands- Opportunity Beckons

[Right Seat Driver]

14 hours ago, Chuck17 said:

I mean it worked out great for the now-fired, under-investigation, yet-to-be-convicted petter-ass former Wing Commander at Scott... Should be a definite indicator to BTZ material. #sarcasm!

Chuck

 

Wasn't he an aide de camp for a 4-star? If so, that's what got him BTZ. Not AFPAK.

[Chuck17]

8 hours ago, Right Seat Driver said:

Wasn't he an aide de camp for a 4-star? If so, that's what got him BTZ. Not AFPAK.

Yup, but he was on time.

He was a superstar volunteer for this program though, did his years overseas, and did well enough to get a wing command opportunity.

Chuck

Edited August 23, 2018 by Chuck17

[Right Seat Driver]

2 hours ago, Chuck17 said:

Yup, but he was on time.

He was a superstar volunteer for this program though, did his years overseas, and did well enough to get a wing command opportunity.

Chuck

Copy

[Hacker]

On 8/22/2018 at 7:57 AM, Chuck17 said:

petter-ass

Words mean stuff.

[Sua Sponte]

On 8/22/2018 at 5:57 AM, Chuck17 said:

I mean it worked out great for the now-fired, under-investigation, yet-to-be-convicted petter-ass former Wing Commander at Scott... Should be a definite indicator to BTZ material. #sarcasm!

Chuck

 

Innocent till proven guilty, huh?

[Chuck17]

He should be - but we all know a charge is as good as a conviction on this kinda stuff these days. 

Chuck

[Cooter]

Only just recently come in contact with some of these individuals...NOT impressed.  I feel like they are individuals who either could not hack it in their communities or had the personality of a door stop.  I'm judging from a rather small sample size I know but JeeeezUS.

Cooter

[SoCo]

On 4/14/2017 at 4:11 AM, General Chang said:

For those on AD, I take it you saw the AFPAK Hands solicitation we sent out today.  I hope you give strong consideration to volunteering.  We are ramping that program back to full capacity, and A1 will facilitate.  ISIS is altering the battlefield and we must have many, many more air power experts on the ground with long-term continuity, earning the trust and respect of the tribal leaders, especially in the remote mountainous regions of both countries.  Many amazing carrots to participating: attend NIU for IDE, work at the Pentagon with some of our greatest minds of our time, free language training, and likely early promotions to both Lt Col & Col.  Finally, a real shot at General Officer down the line.  Truly, we will see many of our future Sq/CCs come out of this program, because they will be the most relevant/qualified in the current state of affairs.  This is a big, big deal; don't miss your opportunity.

If you really don't want to participate in this program, please encourage your friends who are on the fence.  We have a very small volunteer window and many slots to fill; it will not be long before Wing Commanders will be racking their senior Capts, Maj(s), and Majors (esp post bonus) for these opportunities.  Even the non-volunteers will see some of the carrots (because of the importance of this program, we will target the highest performers in the Squadrons; this program will accelerate even their careers and give them new perspectives on leadership).

No doubt this thread will get bashed and trashed, but it will reach its intended audience anyway.  Honestly, there is no truer way to "take your career by the horns" than volunteering for AFPAK Hands.  The last 3 CSAFs put their money where their mouths were regarding incentives.  If you joined the AF to make a difference for your country, then volunteer for this program.  I truly thank you.

The utter BS in this post goes beyond poor judgment and should be chargeable timber the UCMJ for an assignments team member.

I don't know what the appropriate punishment should be for assignment officers who lied their butts off to get people to volunteer for the most dangerous job in the USAF and spend most of the next 4 years away from their family, but I think for starters, they should should be forced into the program to have their careers tanked after risking their lives daily going outside the wire to advise the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police daily on convoys outside the wire. No, I don't mean at HKIA going over to the other side of the base. I mean going on convoys into cities all over Afghanistan, and yes, being a convoy commander and being the PSD teams for a bunch of contractors and civilians who have no business being in a war zone due to the age and lack of fitness. I had 2 grandmas and 2 great grandmas working for me, and one dude who was so obese he couldn't stand up from a prone position with 20 pounds of a vest and body armor on. One lady's daughter was a retired USAF Lt Col

"Many amazing carrots to participating: attend NIU for IDE, work at the Pentagon with some of our greatest minds of our time, free language training, and likely early promotions to both Lt Col & Col.  Finally, a real shot at General Officer down the line."

#WTF?

1. You can go to NIU or NDU.

2. "Work at the Pentagon with some of the greatest minds of our time." Now we know how you got on the assignments team. Can we say brown noser and liar? Those same "greatest minds" will tell you that you will not get a DP or a high strat because they don't have visibility of you since you aren't on staff and will tell you they aren't interested when raters and senior raters in Afghanistan want to tell them all the work you are doing. Greatest minds? BS. Worst examples of military officers in history...punishing those who risk the most for their career field and the USAF.

3. You will miss opportunities for command.

4. You will miss 2-3 OPRs and 4-6 opportunities for stratification.

5. Promotion rate IPZ for Lt Col in 2018 was 50%.

6. Promotion rate for the USAF was 72%.

7. You will likely not get a DP...Pentagon staff officers will.

8. You will likely not get a stratification...person staff officers will

9. Likely early promotions to both Lt Col & Col.  Finally, a real shot at General Officer down the line...how exactly when you get passed over IPZ?

Integrity First, Chang? Come on over to Afghanistan with us. Lead by example.

In the meantime, check out Articles 107 and 133 of the UCMJ.

 

 

 

[SoCo]

On 4/15/2017 at 8:30 AM, sixpack said:

GFY.  Thanks for your service.

Best post yet.

[SoCo]

On 8/25/2018 at 6:02 PM, Cooter said:

Only just recently come in contact with some of these individuals...NOT impressed.  I feel like they are individuals who either could not hack it in their communities or had the personality of a door stop.  I'm judging from a rather small sample size I know but JeeeezUS.

Cooter

Getting forced into a four year tour with two 365s plus training away from home...gone about 3 out of 4-5 years. Going outside the wire daily on convoys? Top it off with a 50% promotion rate? Yeah, the non-vols aren't exactly happy about getting screwed after being selected as "top performers."

Attrition rate is through the roof.

 

[SoCo]

On 8/21/2018 at 6:28 PM, Duck said:

Honest question, does anyone truly believe or trust what the Air Force says anymore? How soon before AFPAK hands becomes filled by non-vols? I’m guessing the next assignment cycle.

It was being filled largely by non-vols when Chang wrote this.

[SoCo]

On 4/17/2017 at 9:59 AM, Guest said:

CJCSI 1630.01B says send your best and brightest. I am paraphrasing but it goes on to say: candidates should be graduated Sq/ccs or strong potential for Command (so your High Performing Officer group)

 

Do you know if AFPAK hands leadership at the joint level (I.e. SECDEF) intend to hold the AF leadership feet to the fire with the letter of the law and send the best and not just the D Team, who Had too much ADSC to 7 day opt?

too often I have seen upper management try to shield the HPO from these kind of "great leadership" opportunity. 

Thanks for giving a voice from inside the program

I am a Hand and passed over IPZ for Lt Col thanks to Pentagon generals who flat out said they couldn't give me a DP or high strat...because I was deployed. No joke. We had a 50% Hand promotion rate this year.

I was on the command list as a major-select but was unmarried and was approached by the assignments team (non-rated) to see if I would volunteer since the two guys at the top of the non-vol list were good with families including one with a child in the Exceptional Family Member Program...or so they said. (I was nowhere on the list as I'd done a short tour 2 years before.) It fit my interests and goals at the time as long as it didn't damage my career. I was promised by the general in charge of my career field that he would take care of me for promotion and would seems me to a large squadron command after the program. Reality? I ended up sending my PRF to 4 different people. My civilian rater completely checked out because she was moving. Senior rater checked out because he was retiring and was polishing his resume. They left or items from my promotion packet and am meeting the SSB.

One of my friends was a pilot, a wing exec and was a non-vol. She's now separated, went Palace Chase and is flying for the airlines.

I'm polishing hip my resume and am thankfully in a career field that is also lucrative on the outside and am considering all options.

Yes, they are non-volling top performers. Yes, it does kill your career (lost command, OPRs and strats).

If you wasn't to get promoted:

Rule #1: Don't take one for the USAF team.

Rule #2: Refer to Rule #1.

That being said, I freaking love the job. Yes, it's freaking dangerous, and I've had close calls the last month. You do really get to make an impact on combat ops by solving key issues impacting ANA and ANP participation on coalition ops. Would I do it again?  I don't know. I've got some great memories and love the job and the NATO troops I'm deployed with...but it's also derailed my career. I was hoping to retire as an O-6 and now I'll be lucky if I ever make O-5...If I can tolerate the USAF another 5 years with job opportunities well into the six figures in my field on the outside, similar to the pilots on here.

Don't do it. The USAF isn't taking care of their Hands. If we don't get a DP, we're screwed, and does anyone on here actually trust senior leaders in the USAF? Don't be a sucker. I was.
 

[1969RPOL36]

You do know that Chang was trolling the board when he wrote this.  Right?  

[tac airlifter]

SoCo that’s good advice.  Some people don’t understand what a shitshow the Hands program has been— it’s a glaring example of the say do credibility gap rotting all trust away from USAF institutions.  Sorry you got screwed, thanks for warning others.

[MooseClub]

Senior AF leadership hatching the hands program....

[panchbarnes]

First of all, GC's trolling skill is out of this world.  A very talented writer, very impressive with the effort he put into his posts.  I missed the old days of reading everyone's passionate angry replies to him.  Kind of like SoCo's well written insight to his own experience.  GC you should really considering publishing during or post-military (no sarcasm).

So AFPAK HANDS was SECDEF Gates' baby, it made sense at the time in order to build up language and cultural expertise.  In the beginning I recall HANDS absolutely climbed the ladder because of the program.  Later on it even kicked off the well-intended, but poorly adopted APAC HANDS program.  Once Gates left office, AFPAK HANDS slowly lost importance to the point it doesn't help ones career at all.  I know a couple of people who joined for the sake of promotion, one lost the #1 strat to GO's exec and another got passed over twice, and was left to flounder on their own in the basement of the Puzzle Palace.  The only recent success story I know of got a Command job at DLI after completion of tour and made the O-6 list.  Apparently under certain circumstances it is possible to exit the program early. 

It sounds like Mattis needs to knife-hand the program and ends its misery.

Edited November 13, 2018 by panchbarnes

[BashiChuni]

I miss GC

[disgruntledemployee]

Marines LOVE the knife hand.  Love it.  

Sorry to all those Hands screwed over. You all get free beers.

Out

[Bender]

The only recent success story I know of got a Command job at DLI after completion of tour and made the O-6 list.

 

LOL

 

Success needs to be redefined. Let's all agree and make it clear to anyone joining the United States Air Force that finishing your commitment, with a Delta follow on assignment is 100% success. If you choose success to be different, that is fvcking fantastic. If you define success as the former, thanks a million and move the fvck on.

 

Talk about having too many generals, when everyone needs to work to be a general. This whole country needs some major fvcking house cleaning. The sooner, the better.

 

Makes me want to get a twitter account,

Bendy

[lloyd christmas]

On 8/23/2018 at 9:56 AM, Hacker said:

Words mean stuff.

I helped my Uncle Jack off a horse.