Finance/DFAS Debt issue with no resolve

[rancormac]

Guard member, PCSd from HOR to UPT base in Feb 2015.  Got paid for PCS in April 2015.

October 2016, I get a nasty gram in the mail from DFAS saying they paid me twice for my PCS, and are collecting the debt.  No phone number or person to call, just DFAS mailing address.  I also got a 'Travel Voucher Advice of Payment' online, showing a travel voucher debt. 

Jan 2017 they collect the 'debt' from my paycheck.

The AF never paid me twice.. I have all the bank statements to prove.  When I submitted my voucher, I believe finance modified the voucher to remove UHaul insurance, and refiled it. I went to local Guard Finance... they said I'd have to go over to the active duty side of the base because they didn't have the correct finance software to look it up.

Went to Active Duty finance... same run around, they couldn't figure anything out... and recommended I file a case with DFAS.  So a case got filed in the Case Management System, sat there for 2 months (with all of my appropriate bank statements, travel vouchers, and writeups).  After 2 months, it closed out stating "Issue moved back to Local finance unit".

More run around, I start emailing DFAS, and finally someone there responds back saying although they looked into it and discovered that I did in fact NOT get paid twice, DFAS does not deal with debt and I need to have (some random acronym) offices at Finance deal with it.  I've tried emailing local active duty finance and just get chaffed. 

I have all the evidence in the world to show I never got paid twice, but cannot find anyone competent enough to resolve the situation.  What course of action do I have available now?  Everytime I take time out of my flying day to go over to Finance, I wait over an hour just to get seen by some E-3 shoe clerk who either can't look me up because I'm guard, or has no clue on how to reverse the debt.  Any help would be great...

 

[SocialD]

IG Complaint

then

Don't write, Call your congressman...better yet walk into their office with all the data.  

[BashiChuni]

Good luck. Finance is the pits. 

[brickhistory]

Squadron commander.  Should solve this with one phone call.  If not, he/she needs to make one more to:

Then Wing.  Ditto.

Then State Adjutant General.

Along with IG and congresscritters.

 

[brabus]

Don't spend one more second of your time at Finance - do what Brick says, immediately.  You've exhausted every avenue you can at your level, this is your SQ/CC's problem now.

[Smokin]

I agree that you need to elevate this very high very fast.  A congressman (is he still around here?) who cares about actually helping troops needs to look into BS like this.  At least you never actually got paid twice.  Had you been paid twice, you would have had the taxes withheld, then the DFAS debt would have been the full pre-tax amount.  Talk about a nice little kick in the junk.  Not only does that cause additional work to fix someone else's mistake, you literally have to pay for it too.  And if they don't get the correct amount on your W-2, or they catch it after taxes are filed, too bad.

I got double paid for a day when I switched types of guard orders.  Didn't notice it at the time because it was a single day and they had already messed up multiple other things on my pay.  DFAS, or someone, caught it in April the following year and almost sent my debt to a collections agency because I was only notified by mail and was TDY at the time.  Not a huge amount of money, but insulting that I had to pay taxes and interest on someone else's mistake.

[Fuzz]

Absolutely call your Congressmen, it's amazing how fast DFAS gets their ass in gear when some from a congressional office starts poking around. However, I would advise you give your command a chance to use their avenues before you go to your representative or at least give them a heads up.

 

[rancormac]

What's the correct chain of command to upchannel it to... where I'm currently stationed, or my actual Guard unit thats half way across the country (I'll be PCSing there in a few weeks)?  Related question about going to IG... does any IG office work for such a 'national' (DFAS) issue?

[brickhistory]

Home unit would my recommendation.  But, if you have a relationship with boss at current location, give it a try to save time.  Bottom line, who in a position to raise hell, knows you now and can pick up the phone on your behalf?

Re the IG, notionally, the IG where you are or your home station when you get there should be able to open a complaint investigation.  It's not a "national" thing since it's about you.  DFAS happens to be the buffoons screwing you over, but the idea is to get your problem solved ASAP.  Yes, something about DFAS itself would be handled via HHQ levels.  But at DoD, not USAF.

[Jaded]

Make sure that you emphasize that the financial hardship is impacting your ability to do your job.

DFAS wait times on tickets are like 150 days by the way. It's beyond ridiculous. 

[Fuzz]

57 minutes ago, rancormac said:

What's the correct chain of command to upchannel it to... where I'm currently stationed, or my actual Guard unit thats half way across the country (I'll be PCSing there in a few weeks)?  Related question about going to IG... does any IG office work for such a 'national' (DFAS) issue?

I'd go with your guard unit, chances are with such little time left at your current station no one is going to really be interested in opening the can of worms that situation with DFAS entails. Also even if they did, I'd be doubtful that you would get any resolution before you PCS'd anyway. Better to get the ball rolling wherever you will have the ability to keep it going the longest, also your home unit probably has more of a vested interest in your well being than whatever FTU unit you are at.

[Weezer]

On 5/14/2017 at 0:21 AM, brickhistory said:

Re the IG, notionally, the IG where you are or your home station when you get there should be able to open a complaint investigation.  It's not a "national" thing since it's about you.  DFAS happens to be the buffoons screwing you over, but the idea is to get your problem solved ASAP.  Yes, something about DFAS itself would be handled via HHQ levels.  But at DoD, not USAF.

If the problem really is a DFAS (and not a screw-up by local finance), then the IG will likely only be able to make inquiries or refer you to the DFAS IG.  Sometimes inquiries work...just the phrase "I'm with the IG" can get stuff moving.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't be hopeful:  I had an issue once where I was getting paid too much.  After almost of dealing with local finance and DFAS, the only way it got resolved was I had a random casual conversation with a guy who happened for the Air Force Audit Agency who had enough clout to make a phone call and get them to take money from me...it was ridiculous.

[Herk Driver]

Use the DOD IG if you go that route.

Edit: also if you are writing your Congressman, don't write them and file an IG at the same time. Takes longer and they won't both look into it. Pick one and then wait for result then maybe do the other if still needed.


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[rancormac]

Looks like the only thing available on DOD IG website is Fraud Waste and Abuse complaint form... same thing?

[Herk Driver]

Looks like the only thing available on DOD IG website is Fraud Waste and Abuse complaint form... same thing?

 

They take other complaints. Not sure of the form but you can write it out on a bar napkin and they will take it. Don't take no for an answer. The website specifically says complaints of mismanagement.

 

 

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[matmacwc]

On 5/13/2017 at 9:03 PM, rancormac said:

What's the correct chain of command to upchannel it to... where I'm currently stationed, or my actual Guard unit thats half way across the country (I'll be PCSing there in a few weeks)?  Related question about going to IG... does any IG office work for such a 'national' (DFAS) issue?

Both channels, you are one of the lucky ones that has 2 squadron commanders, ANG and AD.

[HU&W]

DOD IG Hotline is how to file direct with DOD.  https://www.dodig.mil/Hotline/hotlinecomplaint.html or 1-800-424-9098.  Click on the big Online Hotline Complaint Form in the middle.

Letter to Congress will generate a congressional, which will likely get referred to the IG.

If you file with your local IG, the form is an AF 102 (note: check yes in block 8 to make sure they can maximize help to you).  They will take the complaint, do a quick sanity check of the information to ensure it's not frivolous, assist if they can, and transfer to the IG of the organization against which the complaint is filed if they can't help immediately.

Edited May 16, 2017 by HU&W

[Bergman]

I agree that eventually you will likely need to get your Sq/CC involved at a minimum, if not Congressman and/or IG.

 

It's been a while (thankfully) but I used to have pretty good luck on AD going to finance and pretty much standing on their desks saying over and over, "I am not moving until I talk to an officer in your chain of command.  Or all of the officers in your chain of command."  A couple of times I ended up talking to Lt's, then eventually on to a Captain (I was a Captain at the time) but more often than not, some E-7 or E-8 would come out of the woodwork and voila! my problem was solved almost immediately.  YMMV.

 

[SocialD]

The posts above are probably the better way to handle this situation...probably best to bring your chain into the loop.  As I near my 20, I lean more towards the scorched earth policy.  I've just seen way too many great dudes/dudettes get fucked over to care about tact anymore.  My fucks to give are dwindling at an astonishing rate.

Bergmans method is fairly effective, just be willing to deal with any blowback.  Had to employ this method to get a secret CD burnt at a major base in the PACOM AOR.  I shit you not, there was only one (1) person on base who had secret burn rights at the time and they didn't want to do shit to help us out.  They were not amused, when asked for my classified courier letter, I just pointed at my wings and told them I carry classified every fucking day.  They apparently weren't happy with my antics, but thankfully my leadership are some grade A MOFOs, and I never heard anything from it.

Edited May 17, 2017 by SocialD

[Jaded]

Doing that will get you an LOR with some leadership. 
 

[SocialD]

20 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Doing that will get you an LOR with some leadership. 

Ya...there once was a time that the thought of an LOR worried me.

Edited May 17, 2017 by SocialD

[Fud]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 0:03 AM, rancormac said:

What's the correct chain of command to upchannel it to... where I'm currently stationed, or my actual Guard unit thats half way across the country (I'll be PCSing there in a few weeks)?  Related question about going to IG... does any IG office work for such a 'national' (DFAS) issue?

My last assignment was in the IG office (hearing complaints/Director of Inspections).  The first thing the IG will ask you is if you attempted to resolve this issue with your chain of command.  I would recommend what has already been said by going to your CC and allowing them to handle the issue.  I would also have a summary document on top of your records stating just the facts with supporting documentation behind it.  This will show that you are proactive, and it will make things much easier. 

Most people do not realize that making a Congressional complaint will trigger the IG at the lowest possible level to investigate the issue (i.e. the complaint will be sent down to the lowest command level possible).  This was at least how it was when I got out a few years ago.