Jump to content

Air Force/Airline Meeting

Guest

By Guest
in General Discussion

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 65
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

ClearedHot
ClearedHot

I keep hearing Stop Loss and it may be inevitable, but what a chocolate mess it would create.  For starters how long do you think they can Stop Loss someone...out to 20 years of service? This is a pro

snoopyeast
snoopyeast
Air V
Air V

Awesome.  Absolutely nothing came of this.  Meanwhile, 8 months of the "crisis" has continued since Congress gave the AF the ability to increase ACIP to close to inflation corrected values from 1994.

Posted Images

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
Do you have any details of the recent meeting? That article is from 1997.

Doh! APC passing it off as new news. Guess I should work on my reading comprehension.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LookieRookie Gray Beard

LookieRookie

Posted
Posted (edited)

Interesting enough there still is the MilPDS code for dudes that enrolled in Phoenix aviator back in the day.

Edit: A quick Google search says the meeting is on Thursday May 18.

Edited by LookieRookie
BFM this Gray Beard

BFM this

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, gearpig said:

From the article:

Though 20 years old, the idea of paying the airlines to not hire you may be easier than paying you to stay in.

 

Sounds like a textbook class action.

  • Upvote 2
Spartacus Flight Lead

Spartacus

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, gearpig said:

Today was the day, it seems. Any leaks?

https://www.janes.com/article/70524/pilot-shortage-concerns-us-air-force-bomber-chief

 

I heard that the airlines are upset about USERRA and dudes getting hired and then taking years of mil leave. Apparently, the airlines were planning on bringing this up and might play ball if the AF can get changes to USERRA made.

Nothing about this meeting will be in OUR best interest. I would bet that everything discussed was about how to help the AF and the airlines. Thus how to screw over pilots.

 

HuggyU2 Gray Beard

HuggyU2

Posted
Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Apparently, the airlines were planning on bringing this up and might play ball if the AF can get changes to USERRA made.

Although I am not in the know, I cannot imagine this being a possibility.  USERRA is "law of the land", and will take an act of Congress to make significant changes.  

The AF is only one of seven uniformed services:  have they coordinated with the other six?

The airline industry isn't the only employer of military personnel.  They don't get to decided the rules unilaterally.  

I couldn't get a couple of safety-related 847's approved through the bureaucracy my last 2 years in the AF.  How will they manage to change USERRA?

Edited by HuggyU2
  • Upvote 3
hatedont Crew Dawg

hatedont

Posted
Posted (edited)

The AF needs to get their affairs in order before running over to the airlines to complain about a shortage. When I looked at some slides from AFPC its not just pilots leaving. Aircrew in general and maintainers are punching out too. I'm talking Navy T-34 Mentor style of getting out...

Edited by hatedont
Sprkt69 Flight Lead

Sprkt69

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said:

Although I am not in the know, I cannot imagine this being a possibility.  USERRA is "law of the land", and will take an act of Congress to make significant changes.  

The AF is only one of seven uniformed services:  have they coordinated with the other six?

The airline industry isn't the only employer of military personnel.  They don't get to decided the rules unilaterally.  

I couldn't get a couple of safety-related 847's approved through the bureaucracy my last 2 years in the AF.  How will they manage to change USERRA?

Probably money, like LOTS of it and broken promises

Duck Gray Beard

Duck

Posted
Posted
You can't change USERRA, but you can change who even gets orders in the first place. There's nothing stopping the Air Force from, say, denying long term orders to a name that appears on a legacy seniority list.

The problem with the AF vs the Airlines is there is ZERO benefit to either organization to help the other. One is going to lose out and the Air Force is playing with a losing hand...


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums
VMFA187 Gray Beard

VMFA187

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, hatedont said:

 I'm talking Navy T-34 Mentor style of getting out...

I flew the T-34C and this reference is lost on me...?

MooseAg03 Gray Beard

MooseAg03

Posted
Posted

I think he's talking about the boldface that was along the lines of "Canopy - Open, Toward Trailing Edge - Jump." I never flew it, but heard about their bailout boldface from squadron bros.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

VMFA187 Gray Beard

VMFA187

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, MooseAg03 said:

I think he's talking about the boldface that was along the lines of "Canopy - Open, Toward Trailing Edge - Jump." I never flew it, but heard about their bailout boldface from squadron bros.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Forgive me - I'm a Marine, perhaps a little more dense than most.

Smokin Gray Beard

Smokin

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, joe1234 said:

You can't change USERRA, but you can change who even gets orders in the first place. There's nothing stopping the Air Force from, say, denying long term orders to a name that appears on a legacy seniority list.

Except discrimination laws...

 

This entire meeting baffles my mind.  I don't see how either side can legally influence the other to do anything.  If the Air Force leaders somehow convince the airlines to stop military hiring, that is illegal discrimination.  If the Air Force stops giving long term orders to guard/reserve guys employed by the airlines, that is also discrimination.  The only thing is the airlines could do is hire a representative number of military guys to better represent the total applicant pool.  But even that would only slow the hiring of military pilots temporarily.  The one thing this does accomplish is prove to guys looking to get out that big Air Force is not looking out for them and instead is actively trying to remove post-military employment opportunities.

Smokin Gray Beard

Smokin

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Spartacus said:

I heard that the airlines are upset about USERRA and dudes getting hired and then taking years of mil leave. Apparently, the airlines were planning on bringing this up and might play ball if the AF can get changes to USERRA made.

Nothing about this meeting will be in OUR best interest. I would bet that everything discussed was about how to help the AF and the airlines. Thus how to screw over pilots.

 

This line of logic on behalf of the airlines is bull.  Compare a list of guys on long term mil-leave to guys on long term medical leave and tell me that the military leave is what is really breaking their system.  Last I heard from a Delta pilot, the ratio of long term sick leave to long term mil leave was in the ballpark of 10:1.  The airlines may complain about guys 'abusing' USERRA, but United sure didn't seem too heartbroken about using bankruptcy court to kill fixed pensions they should still be paying out today.  If the shoe were on the other foot, the company would use every power the law gave them to maximize their profit.  Why is it somehow wrong when employees do the same thing?

  • Upvote 3
Snooter Flight Lead

Snooter

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Duck said:


The problem with the AF vs the Airlines is there is ZERO benefit to either organization to help the other. One is going to lose out and the Air Force is playing with a losing hand...


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

It's like a pilot with an ADSC trying to sort out an exit strategy...  my heart smiles that the Air Force has a losing hand...

  • Upvote 1
jazzdude Gray Beard

jazzdude

Posted
Posted
I think he's talking about the boldface that was along the lines of "Canopy - Open, Toward Trailing Edge - Jump." I never flew it, but heard about their bailout boldface from squadron bros.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hah, boldface in navy land.
Crew, canopy, cords, crouch, dive, pull
Hope the horizontal stab doesn't hit you on the way out.

Don't know why that penguin hasn't been pushed off the iceberg yet...
  • Upvote 2
hatedont Crew Dawg

hatedont

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, jazzdude said:


Hah, boldface in navy land.
Crew, canopy, cords, crouch, dive, pull
Hope the horizontal stab doesn't hit you on the way out.

Don't know why that penguin hasn't been pushed off the iceberg yet...

Thanks for writing it out!

Edited by hatedont
Herk Driver Gray Beard

Herk Driver

Posted
Posted

Hah, boldface in navy land.
Crew, canopy, cords, crouch, dive, pull
Hope the horizontal stab doesn't hit you on the way out.

Don't know why that penguin hasn't been pushed off the iceberg yet...

What happened to the harness? Did it get removed?

...cords, harness, crouch...


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums
Duck Gray Beard

Duck

Posted
Posted

Uh... I just wanted to take this time to say thank you to the Air Force, Gen Goldfein and all the other Generals for making our recruiting efforts so easy. Especially when you all paid so many pilots to get out in 2014. Those guys have been awesome employees. Out of respect to you guys, we asked them if they wanted to go back to the AF and they said "Fock no". Sorry. But good luck with your retention problems!

Sincerely,
- the airlines


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

  • Upvote 1

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...