Thunderbird F-16 flips at KDAY

[BFM this]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Unless the powers that be are going to let them hang at show center doing pedal turns I highly doubt F-35s, the juice won't be worth the squeeze because the TX performance specifications are so high.

The T-X has a minimum sustained g requirement of 6.5g and objective of 7.5g  The requirement sets a high bar for maneuverability, requiring the T-X to sustain that load at a pressure altitude of 15,000ft for at least 140˚ of a full turn with minimal loss of energy and altitude.  Initiated at or above 15,000ft pressure altitude, at or below Mach 0.9, and at or above 80% fuel weight, the aircraft’s flight path angle during this maneuver can be no lower than 15˚ nose low while losing no more than 2,000ft of vertical altitude and 10% of the initial airspeed.

 

Bottomline, for a 10th the cost per airframe they can get almost the same show.

All very logical and well put.  But not how it's going to play out I'm afraid.

Management wants their dancing bear center stage, pronto.  At least that's the drumbeats I'm hearing.  We'll see.

[icohftb]

1 hour ago, Motofalcon said:

Disclaimer: 100% speculation, we'll see what the SIB/AIB says in 6.9 months...

There is no way a "wind gust" would flip a viper all the way onto its back during taxi unless it's a damn hurricane. Seriously, to lift the entire fuselage/engine up and over the wing?? Come on. Hell, a gust strong enough just to put it up on a single main and wingtip would be *hopefully* something the wx guys could forecast and would be well outside the normal limits and therefore a wx cnx. Now, a strong wind gust during landing, which pushed the mighty mighty off the runway and THEN it flipped - maybe.  Not probable, but possible.

But flipping on its back during taxi?  I don't buy it. 

And while I feel bad for him and hope he has no serious injuries, that crew chief has one of gnarliest fam ride stories around. 

Yeah something doesnt smell right about that story...

[Jaded]

Eerily similar to the Shaw jet at Osan about 5 years ago.

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/landing-gear-collapse-caused-f-16-crash-in-s-korea-air-force-says-1.251417

As well as the Osan crash in 2010. 

https://www.stripes.com/news/landing-gear-failure-linked-to-f-16-crash-at-osan-1.114321#.WU6ZkMtOlnE

 

[icohftb]

58 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Eerily similar to the Shaw jet at Osan about 5 years ago.

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/landing-gear-collapse-caused-f-16-crash-in-s-korea-air-force-says-1.251417

As well as the Osan crash in 2010. 

https://www.stripes.com/news/landing-gear-failure-linked-to-f-16-crash-at-osan-1.114321#.WU6ZkMtOlnE

 

Well that sounds like a much more plausible cause.

[F16Deuce]

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

Eerily similar to the Shaw jet at Osan about 5 years ago.

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/landing-gear-collapse-caused-f-16-crash-in-s-korea-air-force-says-1.251417

As well as the Osan crash in 2010. 

https://www.stripes.com/news/landing-gear-failure-linked-to-f-16-crash-at-osan-1.114321#.WU6ZkMtOlnE

 

Anything is possible.  For now we need to give Speedy the benefit of the doubt and let the safety investigators do their thing.

[Clark Griswold]

5 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

... knowledge...

Bottomline, for a 10th the cost per airframe they can get almost the same show.

Not to mention at probably 15% per flight hour cost and the logistical / security costs of parking a T-bird configured F-35s while out on the road.  T-X T-birds would likely have a much lower logistical footprint.

Bar napkin math but 8 pilots flying 750 hours a year (WAG) in T-bird F-35s @ $30k an hour comes to $180 million but in a T-X @ 5k an hour comes to 30 million, 150 million in savings, real money even for the AF.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Clark Griswold
public math

[xcraftllc]

Also the back seat of the T-X would allow for incentive rides that the F-35 couldn't offer. Hopefully it happens as soon as the T-X is online. It would sure be nice to have those Block 52s freed up for combat.

[ClearedHot]

8 hours ago, Motofalcon said:

Disclaimer: 100% speculation, we'll see what the SIB/AIB says in 6.9 months...

There is no way a "wind gust" would flip a viper all the way onto its back during taxi unless it's a damn hurricane. Seriously, to lift the entire fuselage/engine up and over the wing?? Come on. Hell, a gust strong enough just to put it up on a single main and wingtip would be *hopefully* something the wx guys could forecast and would be well outside the normal limits and therefore a wx cnx. Now, a strong wind gust during landing, which pushed the mighty mighty off the runway and THEN it flipped - maybe.  Not probable, but possible.

But flipping on its back during taxi?  I don't buy it. 

And while I feel bad for him and hope he has no serious injuries, that crew chief has one of gnarliest fam ride stories around. 

Hmmm

 

[icohftb]

29 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Hmmm

 

Think the bone started taxiing (and had more than idle power) as he crossed his 6

[ClearedHot]

2 minutes ago, icohftb said:

Think the bone started taxiing (and had more than idle power) as he crossed his 6

Ya think? 

[FidelCashflow]

Another troll account. 

Edited June 25, 2017 by gearpig

[Danger41]

18 minutes ago, icohftb said:

Think the bone started taxiing (and had more than idle power) as he crossed his 6

Safety school DG?

[Clark Griswold]

Why the hell did the guy filming think the Class C accident happening right in front of him was less important than a routine takeoff?

 

[BashiChuni]

56 minutes ago, icohftb said:

Think the bone started taxiing (and had more than idle power) as he crossed his 6

are you a wing exec?

[icohftb]

47 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

are you a wing exec?

Ok genius i meant that when the viper started taxiing the bone wasnt moving but on my small phone screen it appears that the bone starts moving as the video pans right

[BashiChuni]

19 minutes ago, icohftb said:

Ok genius i meant that when the viper started taxiing the bone wasnt moving but on my small phone screen it appears that the bone starts moving as the video pans right

Group or wing?

[icohftb]

5 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

Group or wing?

Flight exec!

[BashiChuni]

3 hours ago, icohftb said:

Flight exec!

you're WAY behind your poll year then...so sad

[ClearedHot]

10 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Group or wing?

Epic

[Buddy Spike]

23 hours ago, Motofalcon said:

Disclaimer: 100% speculation, we'll see what the SIB/AIB says in 6.9 months...

There is no way a "wind gust" would flip a viper all the way onto its back during taxi unless it's a damn hurricane. Seriously, to lift the entire fuselage/engine up and over the wing?? Come on. Hell, a gust strong enough just to put it up on a single main and wingtip would be *hopefully* something the wx guys could forecast and would be well outside the normal limits and therefore a wx cnx. Now, a strong wind gust during landing, which pushed the mighty mighty off the runway and THEN it flipped - maybe.  Not probable, but possible.

But flipping on its back during taxi?  I don't buy it. 

And while I feel bad for him and hope he has no serious injuries, that crew chief has one of gnarliest fam ride stories around. 

Microburst?

[icohftb]

8 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

you're WAY behind your poll year then...so sad

?

[HU&W]

23 hours ago, Motofalcon said:

Disclaimer: 100% speculation, we'll see what the SIB/AIB says in 6.9 months...

There is no way a "wind gust" would flip a viper all the way onto its back during taxi unless it's a damn hurricane. Seriously, to lift the entire fuselage/engine up and over the wing?? Come on. Hell, a gust strong enough just to put it up on a single main and wingtip would be *hopefully* something the wx guys could forecast and would be well outside the normal limits and therefore a wx cnx. Now, a strong wind gust during landing, which pushed the mighty mighty off the runway and THEN it flipped - maybe.  Not probable, but possible.

But flipping on its back during taxi?  I don't buy it. 

And while I feel bad for him and hope he has no serious injuries, that crew chief has one of gnarliest fam ride stories around. 

Maybe those things sticking out of both sides of the fuselage made it more prone to be affected by wind and other types of air currents.

[icohftb]

5 minutes ago, HU&W said:

Maybe those things sticking out of both sides of the fuselage made it more prone to be affected by wind and other types of air currents.

Were any other aircraft damaged at the airshow?

[AZwildcat]

On 6/24/2017 at 7:01 PM, ClearedHot said:

Hmmm

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by AZwildcat

[SocialD]

On 6/25/2017 at 10:34 AM, Buddy Spike said:

Microburst?

 

If I were a bettin man, I would guess hydroplaning mixed with winds.  There were some wicked downpours/storms rolling through the Dayton area that day.  Either way we'll know when the SIB/AIB are released.  Glad no-one was seriously hurt.    

I cant find it now, but there is a video floating around somewhere, showing the jet in two peices on a flatbed.  They cut it between the two cockpits.