Herk Down

[LookieRookie]

God speed

[Danger41]

Same unit (for the pax) that was hit by the UH-60 crash near Hurlburt a couple years back. Damn shame.

[HerkFE]

9 hours ago, gearpig said:

What a devastating loss for the families. Condolences to them.

While I can't think of many, I'm sure there are a few reasons why a Herc would suddenly and violently depart controlled flight at altitude. I hope the investigators' first priority is finding 4 complete sets of blades. If they don't, there should be hell to pay. 

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1185310/c-130-pilot-receives-60th-koren-kolligian-jr-trophy/

I believe this same thing happened at OKC just before they converted to the -135. I don't know all of the details but essentially, my understanding, one blade went flat and three feathered. 

[M2]

Notifications are being made, and families are identifying their lost loved ones...

https://www.news4jax.com/news/jacksonville-marine-among-16-killed-in-plane-crash

[Warrior]

Small F-ing world. I'm an AF C130 pilot and I went to HS with one of those guys.

Anyone know anything about USMC SIB/AIB processes?


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[VMFA187]

10 hours ago, Warrior said:

Small F-ing world. I'm an AF C130 pilot and I went to HS with one of those guys.

Anyone know anything about USMC SIB/AIB processes?


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SIB/AIB = Safety Investigation?

If so, I know that it'll take > six months for the report to come out. If you have more specific questions, shoot.

[mcbush]

1 hour ago, VMFA187 said:

SIB/AIB = Safety Investigation?

If so, I know that it'll take > six months for the report to come out. If you have more specific questions, shoot.

In the AF, flight safety investigations consist of two parts: the Safety Investigation Board and the Accident Investigation Board. The SIB occurs first, is generally safety-privileged, and is primarily concerned with preventing future incidents and disseminating lessons learned to the relevant parties. The AIB follows and looks to assign cause/blame, and produces a report which is publicly releasable. Is the USMC process similar?

[VMFA187]

3 minutes ago, mcbush said:

In the AF, flight safety investigations consist of two parts: the Safety Investigation Board and the Accident Investigation Board. The SIB occurs first, is generally safety-privileged, and is primarily concerned with preventing future incidents and disseminating lessons learned to the relevant parties. The AIB follows and looks to assign cause/blame, and produces a report which is publicly releasable. Is the USMC process similar?

It is. The Department of the Navy does two investigations just like you described. The first only to assess what happened IOT get the information out to the fleet to prevent further accidents linked to the same cause(s). The second investigation can be punitive, ultimately assigning blame for the mishap.

[Prosuper]

Got a bud who was a FE in the OKC unit. He told me the airplane was shaking so violently they could not see any instrutments or engine gauges. The A.C. guessed right and shut down the engine.

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[BFM this]

5 hours ago, Prosuper said:

Got a bud who was a FE in the OKC unit. He told me the airplane was shaking so violently they could not see any instrutments or engine gauges. The A.C. guessed right and shut down the engine.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Baseops Network Forums mobile app
 

Wow, stubborn motor.

Marines had something similar about 20yrs ago in a unit I was in.  IIRC (second hand, wasn't on board the plane) one blade tossed itself about a half mile away, and the rest of the hub shelled itself, peppering the cockpit with fragments.

[M2]

On 7/13/2017 at 11:01 PM, Warrior said:

Small F-ing world. I'm an AF C130 pilot and I went to HS with one of those guys.

One of them graduated from the same high school I did, albeit 28 years later...

Rest in peace, Marines!

[snoopyeast]

There is an abbreviated report out on AFSAS.   Recommend reading for -130 guys.

[ThreeHoler]

There is an abbreviated report out on AFSAS.   Recommend reading for -130 guys.

Have a mishap number or other way to search for it?

[bronxbomber252]

Go under blue four news, then scroll down to the Mishap Summary Briefs (MSB). It should be one of the top two

[Tonka]

For those of us with a safety shop that doesn't believe in using the safety process to prevent mishap and won't let you read mishap reports:

https://www.militarytimes.com/2018/12/05/investigation-blames-air-force-and-navy-for-systemic-failures-in-fatal-marine-corps-c-130-crash-that-killed-16/

The horrific KC-130T plane crash that killed 15 Marines and a sailor last summer was caused by a deteriorating propeller blade that was corroded when it entered an Air Force maintenance depot in 2011, but workers there failed to fix it and sent it back to the fleet unrepaired.

This neglect allowed a routine corrosion problem to metastasize into a crack that went undetected for years until a mundane cross-country transport mission ended in flames.

On July 10, 2017, that worn-down blade finally failed and came loose from the propeller 20,000 feet above Mississippi farmland, as the Marine Corps Reserve plane was en route to California under the call sign “Yanky 72.”

It shot into the side of the aging aircraft, one of the last 130Ts still flying, a model set to be retired in the next few years.

The blade’s impact set off a cataclysm that killed everyone on board and left the aircraft in three pieces, creating inconsolable heartache for 16 military families and an inferno of wreckage scattered for miles.

[Prosuper]

https://news.usni.org/2018/12/06/kc-130t-accident-report-video-reconstruction?fbclid=IwAR0zjb1jR6vRpCxKv2HWyd2k_NICJ307MoLRSO50AsJQjzh2dHlZBKGMG3c

Had to be horrifying for the crew, this is brutal.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Prosuper
spelling

[Day Man]

Jesus. Christ.

[FLEA]

What are your all's thoughts on the military publicizing this in wide dispersion? I've heard in scenarios like this the tendency to blame the aircrew is deeply frustrating and hard on families. A report going out to publicly let everyone know their loved ones did everything right has to be somewhat vindicating. As a former C-130 dude myself this is absolutely terrifying. The recreation video reminds me of the wing box failure video on the fire fighting C-130 several years back. So quick and instant, no time to react or do anything to save it. 

[Champ Kind]

15 minutes ago, FLEA said:

What are your all's thoughts on the military publicizing this in wide dispersion? I've heard in scenarios like this the tendency to blame the aircrew is deeply frustrating and hard on families. A report going out to publicly let everyone know their loved ones did everything right has to be somewhat vindicating. As a former C-130 dude myself this is absolutely terrifying. The recreation video reminds me of the wing box failure video on the fire fighting C-130 several years back. So quick and instant, no time to react or do anything to save it. 

It's one thing to be an aviator and being able to read reports/see videos after a mishap and then have the ability to learn from it, mourn the loss, and compartmentalize it.  I didn't know anyone on that plane, but I wouldn't want my wife/kids to see that video.  

Edited December 9, 2018 by Champ Kind

[Blue]

I like the fact that they're publicizing the blistering incompetence of the AF depot at Warner Robbins.

 

[JeremiahWeed]

1 hour ago, FLEA said:

 The recreation video reminds me of the wing box failure video on the fire fighting C-130 several years back. So quick and instant, no time to react or do anything to save it. 

I remember that fire drop video.  That was quick and instant, for the most part.  Unfortunately, not the case with this break-up starting at FL200.  Quick and instant to a point of unrecoverable failure, yes - but 2-3 final minutes I wouldn't wish on anyone. 

[Tonka]

Im no expert in human physiology... but i would imagine/speculate the forces involve would be incapacitating.  i dont know what the force required to liberate the whole prop assembly is, but it has to be high.

[JeremiahWeed]

1 hour ago, Tonka said:

Im no expert in human physiology... but i would imagine/speculate the forces involve would be incapacitating.  i dont know what the force required to liberate the whole prop assembly is, but it has to be high.

Me either - but air and centrifugal loads acting on an operating prop/engine assembly that suddenly been thrown off axis violently can reasonably explain its liberation.  While it's comforting for family to cling to, if the crew was strapped in, unfortunately, I think it's very possible they weren't incapacitated by the break up.

[Prosuper]

6 hours ago, Blue said:

I like the fact that they're publicizing the blistering incompetence of the AF depot at Warner Robbins.

 

As an employee of the depot at Tinker. KC-135 Post dock, it would not break my heart to see those schmucks in the WRALC prop shop charged with manslaughter. If we were a part 145 MRO repair station they would.  Now we are going through the usual knee jerk reaction from the 06 and above crowd putting QA on the war path on to make sure tech data is open to the page when doing a task. The whole USAF MX QA system is not equipped to prevent this. They are only there to assign blame after the fact and not equipped to prevent. They are used more or less as a administrative hammer by MX Sq CC's, they have been watered down to be safety cops and seen as the enemy to MX troops doing the job. We need to take a page from how a civilian part 145 repair station does it. Before I install a component I need a inspector there to ok it then I install then he witnesses the torques I use and we both sign off together. The ALC way is to have a mechanic take component, install, op check and sign off, it works if the mechanic has total integrity but some days we have good days and bad days . Second set of eyes is a must that does not answer to my supervision but has a good working relationship with the mechanic.

Unfortunately those guys will be de-certified , retrained, and have a PE on the task. Maybe given 3 days off without pay. They will move supervisors around  and QA will come into the shop to check if the tool box inventory is signed off , everybody is wearing safety gear  correctly but not to slow down production.  On my shift we have only 2 inspectors to cover 7 different weapons systems. The part 145 MRO has a couple per jet and we had them jumping from one job to the next. 

[hindsight2020]

29 minutes ago, Prosuper said:

As an employee of the depot at Tinker. KC-135 Post dock, it would not break my heart to see those schmucks in the WRALC prop shop charged with manslaughter. If we were a part 145 MRO repair station they would.  Now we are going through the usual knee jerk reaction from the 06 and above crowd putting QA on the war path on to make sure tech data is open to the page when doing a task. The whole USAF MX QA system is not equipped to prevent this. They are only there to assign blame after the fact and not equipped to prevent. They are used more or less as a administrative hammer by MX Sq CC's, they have been watered down to be safety cops and seen as the enemy to MX troops doing the job. We need to take a page from how a civilian part 145 repair station does it. Before I install a component I need a inspector there to ok it then I install then he witnesses the torques I use and we both sign off together. The ALC way is to have a mechanic take component, install, op check and sign off, it works if the mechanic has total integrity but some days we have good days and bad days . Second set of eyes is a must that does not answer to my supervision but has a good working relationship with the mechanic.

Unfortunately those guys will be de-certified , retrained, and have a PE on the task. Maybe given 3 days off without pay. They will move supervisors around  and QA will come into the shop to check if the tool box inventory is signed off , everybody is wearing safety gear  correctly but not to slow down production.  On my shift we have only 2 inspectors to cover 7 different weapons systems. The part 145 MRO has a couple per jet and we had them jumping from one job to the next. 

Is Tinker depot part 145 though? I understand y'all are majority civil servants, but isn't Tinker still mickey mouse AF MX run, to include military procedural fucketry standard? Genuinely curious, wife's born/grew up in Midwest City and I dropped more BUFFs at TIK that I care to recall, so I'm familiar with the area.