Dual qualification

[SPAWNmaster]

One thing I haven't seen in this thread or the original discussion in Track Select is the fact that this is already being done by the RPA Guard unit in Syracuse, NY. I have a buddy who was hired by them and was sent through UPT. I believe he went through the heavy track and now that he is rated is going to RPA school. Those guys are dual rated to both fly the RPA bird and also fly the chase plane (DA42?). I don't know much about it but it seems like a practical application of the dual qual concept. 

[pcola]

Aren't most guard/reserve pilots dual qualed?  Not by the AF, of course, but still safely executing flight ops in two different aircraft while maintaining qualifications in each. My point is that it is reasonably possible for one person to maintain operational proficiency in two aircraft simultaneously without a lot of drama. Of course this isn't applicable to every AF airframe either. 

[tac airlifter]

On 8/1/2017 at 1:33 PM, Lstcause257 said:

So a legitimate question to dual qual. Can anyone provide guidance on dual qual for different positions on the same aircraft? I'm currently deployed as a C208B EP and we are trying to determine who would need to sign off on me being qual'd as MSO (Mission Systems Officer). This is mostly to teach/eval our counterparts how to do ISR and airdrop. We currently are using an FE from the helo world but he will be departing shortly and need a plan of action.

The way I read the 11-202v2 we fall under host nation rules (they don't talk about dual qual). The 11-401 says we need MAJCOM approval to fly foreign aircraft (which we are already doing). So the way I read it as long as our host nation signs off on it we are good.

What am I missing on all this? I feel like there is something I'm not taking into consideration.

Yes there is a precedent.  In the early days of the U28 program several IPs were dual qual'd as instructor pilot and instructor CSO. Although some flew that way in combat (switching back and forth between crew positions) episodically and by exception, the main utility was in rapidly expanding the cadre of instructors available for home station training.

To my recollection, "authorization" was in a note in our METL pub.  There wasn't a true 11-2-U28 v1-3 for a few years, but I believe the pubs we used were signed by the AFSOC A3.

i don't think you're missing anything.  If you have a good idea to improve the mission and your idea is not specifically forbidden.... game on to execute until told otherwise.  

[herkbum]

10 hours ago, SPAWNmaster said:

One thing I haven't seen in this thread or the original discussion in Track Select is the fact that this is already being done by the RPA Guard unit in Syracuse, NY. I have a buddy who was hired by them and was sent through UPT. I believe he went through the heavy track and now that he is rated is going to RPA school. Those guys are dual rated to both fly the RPA bird and also fly the chase plane (DA42?). I don't know much about it but it seems like a practical application of the dual qual concept. 

I believe you are mistaken.  SYR had/has an RC-26 in the OG.  This is why they can send some guys to UPT.  Unless something has changed recently, they have not ever had a chase plane.  Only a few of the folks there have flown both and I believe the folks that have are only qual'd in 1 at a time. 

[dream big]

17 hours ago, SPAWNmaster said:

One thing I haven't seen in this thread or the original discussion in Track Select is the fact that this is already being done by the RPA Guard unit in Syracuse, NY. I have a buddy who was hired by them and was sent through UPT. I believe he went through the heavy track and now that he is rated is going to RPA school. Those guys are dual rated to both fly the RPA bird and also fly the chase plane (DA42?). I don't know much about it but it seems like a practical application of the dual qual concept. 

The chase plane is not an MWS, it is probably fairly simple to fly.  Also as for guard/reserves being "dual qualified" with their airline airplane; when most of them are at their unit, they just show up, fly, do the required training and go home.  They aren't chief of <x> and I doubt they spend much effort on OPRs, etc.   Get rid of all my additional duties unrelated to flying and I maybe could have time to be dual qualified.

Edited August 3, 2017 by dream big

[Guest]

The chase plane is not an MWS, it is probably fairly simple to fly.  Also as for guard/reserves being "dual qualified" with their airline airplane; when most of them are at their unit, they just show up, fly, do the required training and go home.  They aren't chief of and I doubt they spend much effort on OPRs, etc.   Get rid of all my additional duties unrelated to flying and I maybe could have time to be dual qualified.

Looks like the Civil Air Patrol flys the chase sorties. Sorry.

https://cnycap.org/2016/07/cny-group-performs-mq-9-chase-mission-for-174th-atkw/

[viper154]

On 8/3/2017 at 5:18 AM, herkbum said:

I believe you are mistaken.  SYR had/has an RC-26 in the OG.  This is why they can send some guys to UPT.  Unless something has changed recently, they have not ever had a chase plane.  Only a few of the folks there have flown both and I believe the folks that have are only qual'd in 1 at a time. 

I have a buddy up there. That's all correct. The RC-26 is gone but he was hired to fly it. Ended up going to the -9 but they weren't dual quald. 

 

For a time dual qual was a thing on the MQ-1s and 9s  same cockpit but completely different HUD, and plane. The 1 had a 200 pound payload cap and a "lawnmower" engine with a supercharger. The 9 has a turbo prop, several thousand pounds of payload, and a completely different electrical system. Flying two different planes with a similar mission is doable. 

On a unrelated note, the guard units can send RPA guys through UPT if they have the money/the student wants to/and the slots are open. 

[herkbum]

On 8/4/2017 at 6:17 PM, viper154 said:

On a unrelated note, the guard units can send RPA guys through UPT if they have the money/the student wants to/and the slots are open. 

Disagree. We have been told our folks are only going to URT. A few yrs ago, they waffled back and forth if they were going to let a few of them go thru UPT and in the end they all went to URT. Our last UPT bubba is now a Capt. 

 

Caveat: we do not have a non-RPA airframe on the ramp, so this is likely the reason for URT only. 

Edited August 5, 2017 by herkbum