What is right with the Air Force

[arg]

On 9/6/2024 at 3:17 PM, DirkDiggler said:

https://theaviationist.com/2024/09/05/mc-130j-crews-earn-award/

After dragging four Pave Lows from Jacksonville FL to Virginia, hanging out, and dragging them back, our crew was awarded an MRE. I got the ham slice, better than the pork and beans I guess. It was an ORI so we made Norty look good.

[DirkDiggler]

9 minutes ago, arg said:

After dragging four Pave Lows from Jacksonville FL to Virginia, hanging out, and dragging them back, our crew was awarded an MRE. I got the ham slice, better than the pork and beans I guess. It was an ORI so we made Norty look good.

The ham slice from the old MREs used to be the shit if you had a fire to grill it over.

[Biff_T]

 

1 hour ago, arg said:

.. It was an ORI so we made Norty look good.

[DirkDiggler]

https://www.dvidshub.net/news/484658/honoring-trailblazer-legacy-msgt-mona-lynn-howard-lives-howard-drop-zone?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0QRnWYmJ-EbvU23L5J1RVzIUxu6HDmIK0TupBzPK9aVqiyVovo_VPNWng_aem_5FeGBA5wS4w4bZPOGmH-jg
 

Lynn was a phenomenal loadmaster and person, glad to see this DZ named after her.

[gearhog]

The AF is healing?

https://www.af.mil/Diversity/

[FourFans]

On 11/16/2024 at 6:00 PM, gearhog said:

The AF is healing?

https://www.af.mil/Diversity/

I see what you did there.

[nunya]

On 11/16/2024 at 7:00 PM, gearhog said:

The AF is healing?

https://www.af.mil/Diversity/

I do enjoy the lack of basic proofreading from the world's greatest air force.

[LookieRookie]

For reference here is what the page looked like right before the election.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20241007193219/https://www.af.mil/Diversity/

[dream big]

22 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

For reference here is what the page looked like right before the election.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20241007193219/https://www.af.mil/Diversity/

Da Fuk!? It’s no wonder we haven’t won a war in decades and pissed away Afghanistan for the world to see. 

[FourFans]

On 11/19/2024 at 1:57 PM, LookieRookie said:

For reference here is what the page looked like right before the election.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20241007193219/https://www.af.mil/Diversity/

In summary: Your skin color, gender, and sexual preference have no bearing on your performance...so long as you aren't white, male, or straight

Edited November 21, 2024 by FourFans

[Biff_T]

On 11/19/2024 at 11:57 AM, LookieRookie said:

For reference here is what the page looked like right before the election.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20241007193219/https://www.af.mil/Diversity/

Gay.   

[Biff_T]

https://theaviationist.com/2024/12/18/492nd-fs-f-15e-strike-eagles-return-from-middle-east-with-new-nose-arts-and-bomb-markings/

 

Edit:  Fuck Yeah!

Edited December 18, 2024 by Biff_T
Afterthought

[FourFans]

"... inspired by figures of the Greek mitology..."

is that kinda like Greek Mythology?

[dream big]

On 12/18/2024 at 9:24 PM, Biff_T said:

https://theaviationist.com/2024/12/18/492nd-fs-f-15e-strike-eagles-return-from-middle-east-with-new-nose-arts-and-bomb-markings/

 

Edit:  Fuck Yeah!

Won’t last long, someone will get offended. 

[disgruntledemployee]

I'm offended Hades staff isn't shooting out giant streams of molten fire.

[Lawman]

In preparation for talking points at the Army senior leaders conference…


Our effort is to force the Army to admit the product we are getting out of our flight training program and arriving to their first units is sub standard.

On that point, I’d like to get anything along the lines of documentation or policy letters discussing the known fact that Army ratings mean nothing due to a long history of guys not passing muster when transferring services and the Air Force recognizing that the base line Army aviator has severe gaps in training where the only remedy is to fully reprogress them through the UPT program.

We are attempting a “see ourselves” discussion with a service currently led by an Artillery officer who doesn’t understand why we keep crashing helicopters due to pilot error mostly based off experience and the quality of the limited hours they have.


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[snoopyeast]

On 12/18/2024 at 4:35 PM, FourFans said:

"... inspired by figures of the Greek mitology..."

is that kinda like Greek Mythology?

That's how you spell it after too many Mythos

[Boomer6]

41 minutes ago, Lawman said:

On that point, I’d like to get anything along the lines of documentation or policy letters discussing the known fact that Army ratings mean nothing due to a long history of guys not passing muster when transferring services and the Air Force recognizing that the base line Army aviator has severe gaps in training where the only remedy is to fully reprogress them through the UPT program.

I've never seen a policy letter on the UPT side that alludes to this, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I think your best bet is to contact Randolph stan/eval and see if they have data. It's possible they have a policy on this. If not, you'd probably have to ask them to gather MAS (MAAS?) data for all army guys that went through T-6s and/or Rucker. MAS is basically the overall pilot score each stud receives.

If you can get AETC to send you those scores for prior army guys and ask them to tell you where it falls on the bell curve you could draw some conclusions from that. That data is definitely available from our GTIMS (UPT flt record/grades software if you're unfamiliar), but will require someone to sort through to find the prior army guys.

Knowing the AF it's probably going to take a colonel making a formal request just to get the ball rolling. If you get a general to make the request maybe you can get the data prior to the end of FY25.

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by Boomer6

[raimius]

I don't know if you'll get good data vs modern AF UPT.  We have been making so many changes and pushing through a lot of weak students the last few years.  

 

[GoneFishing64]

It feels like 20 Jan could bring in an era of real disruption and change.  Here are some ideas for the new SECAF to get in on the action and shock the stale bureaucracy to life:

 

1)  Purge the bloat.  Hold the promised Selective Retirement Board for O-7 through O-10.  Retire one-third of all stars from the force, and eliminate one-third of all HHQ staff positions to compliment the GO cuts and downgrades.  Leave the GO positions vacant or downgraded, and distribute the HHQ staff cuts to operational Wings.  Upgrade operational Active Duty Wing Commands to one-star billets.

 

2)  Give Wing Commanders 100% authority over promotions up to O-4 and E-7.  Also, give full discretionary authority over 50% of O-5, E-8, and E-9 promotions.  If laws require promotion boards (O-4, O-5), convene the boards to review records for errors and oversights.

 

3)  Extend all Command tours to 4 years.  Commanders should be the longest-tenured and most operationally knowledgeable members of their organizations.

 

4)  Fix the standards and discipline crisis.  Many, including the ACC Commander, have recognized the symptoms, but few seem to have diagnosed the disease.  Fundamentally, many airmen have come to believe that they do not have to do what they are told, AND THEY ARE CURRENTLY CORRECT!  Supervisors are hesitant to discipline, and subordinates’ avenues of recourse are strong and many.  First step:  Just a SECAF order, “Supervisors will discipline subordinates who fail to maintain standards.  Such actions are a mandatory requirement of leadership, and will not be misconstrued as harassment, favoritism, hazing, or bias.”  This is not about uniforms and haircuts.  This is about doing your job well.

 

4a)  The bluster about “grooming standards” is really about beards, and the issue is racially charged.  Having de-facto racially segregated facial hair standards is not good.  Immediately allow beards for all members and make this ridiculous issue go away forever.

 

5)  Day one attack on over-classification…end CUI.  It is ironic (perhaps Orwellian) that the latest information classification marking is “Controlled Unclassified Information”.  Secrecy is the death of accountability.  CUI was created by executive action, so it can be undone.

 

6)  Incite a personnel management revolution.  AFPC is ground zero for self-destructive centralized bureaucratic control.  Look to professional sports leagues for an alternative private sector model.  Smash the bureaucracy, and announce a software-based de-centralized personnel management system.  Yes, this would include “free-agency” periods where members and Commanders will hold direct power over internal personnel movements.

 

7)  Honestly exercise and evaluate the military capability of units. Exercises against challenging threat and logistics scenarios should be conducted on a no-notice basis and be evaluated by the MAJCOM or higher.  Evaluate military performance, not compliance or methods.  On day one, warn Wings to expect no-notice exercises.  Before the end of February, drop an ambitious, multi-wing, cross-MAJCOM exercise against a robust “pacing threat.”  Include fighters, tankers, cargo, CRG, and bombers.  The great thing about no-notice exercises is that they do not take too long to plan.  Expect the exercise to blow up like the first Starship, which would make it a massive success.

[hindsight2020]

anecdotally I can tell you the FWQ program was there to reinforce a lot of those deficiencies, but no stated letter would ever be public. From my recollection it was always couched under the assumption the fixed wing fundamental from army undergraduate was simply too short for the usaf liking, not necessarily driving a pointed aspersion at the quality control of army under grad training, green bag or contractor alike.

 

 Concur with the prior comments regarding data mining via GTIMS. The point about UPT 2.5 is valid (garbage product imo), but you can easily compile multi decade samples predating the 2.5 sophistry distraction, and still get a good control group wiht the SUPT 1.0 AF and USN kids. 

Access to the data in a way that can be mined will be the hurdle.

Edited December 28, 2024 by hindsight2020

[dream big]

1 hour ago, GoneFishing64 said:

 

It feels like 20 Jan could bring in an era of real disruption and change.  Here are some ideas for the new SECAF to get in on the action and shock the stale bureaucracy to life:

 

1)  Purge the bloat.  Hold the promised Selective Retirement Board for O-7 through O-10.  Retire one-third of all stars from the force, and eliminate one-third of all HHQ staff positions to compliment the GO cuts and downgrades.  Leave the GO positions vacant or downgraded, and distribute the HHQ staff cuts to operational Wings.  Upgrade operational Active Duty Wing Commands to one-star billets.

 

2)  Give Wing Commanders 100% authority over promotions up to O-4 and E-7.  Also, give full discretionary authority over 50% of O-5, E-8, and E-9 promotions.  If laws require promotion boards (O-4, O-5), convene the boards to review records for errors and oversights.

 

3)  Extend all Command tours to 4 years.  Commanders should be the longest-tenured and most operationally knowledgeable members of their organizations.

 

4)  Fix the standards and discipline crisis.  Many, including the ACC Commander, have recognized the symptoms, but few seem to have diagnosed the disease.  Fundamentally, many airmen have come to believe that they do not have to do what they are told, AND THEY ARE CURRENTLY CORRECT!  Supervisors are hesitant to discipline, and subordinates’ avenues of recourse are strong and many.  First step:  Just a SECAF order, “Supervisors will discipline subordinates who fail to maintain standards.  Such actions are a mandatory requirement of leadership, and will not be misconstrued as harassment, favoritism, hazing, or bias.”  This is not about uniforms and haircuts.  This is about doing your job well.

 

4a)  The bluster about “grooming standards” is really about beards, and the issue is racially charged.  Having de-facto racially segregated facial hair standards is not good.  Immediately allow beards for all members and make this ridiculous issue go away forever.

 

5)  Day one attack on over-classification…end CUI.  It is ironic (perhaps Orwellian) that the latest information classification marking is “Controlled Unclassified Information”.  Secrecy is the death of accountability.  CUI was created by executive action, so it can be undone.

 

6)  Incite a personnel management revolution.  AFPC is ground zero for self-destructive centralized bureaucratic control.  Look to professional sports leagues for an alternative private sector model.  Smash the bureaucracy, and announce a software-based de-centralized personnel management system.  Yes, this would include “free-agency” periods where members and Commanders will hold direct power over internal personnel movements.

 

7)  Honestly exercise and evaluate the military capability of units. Exercises against challenging threat and logistics scenarios should be conducted on a no-notice basis and be evaluated by the MAJCOM or higher.  Evaluate military performance, not compliance or methods.  On day one, warn Wings to expect no-notice exercises.  Before the end of February, drop an ambitious, multi-wing, cross-MAJCOM exercise against a robust “pacing threat.”  Include fighters, tankers, cargo, CRG, and bombers.  The great thing about no-notice exercises is that they do not take too long to plan.  Expect the exercise to blow up like the first Starship, which would make it a massive success.

Agreed with most except 1-2. For 1: sounds a lot like offloading the staff work to the wings (already happens and it’s a detraction). Staffs exist not just to support the commander but to enable down the chain units to focus on tactical and operational mission tasks. A good staff allows Wings and below to get after the mission and advance the ball. I want smart operationally minded bros on the staff getting after the strategic problems and the admin that follows so the wings can focus on the mission. 

For 2: How many toxic 0-6 commanders have you had? I don’t want Wing Kings to have that much power over the promotion of an officer. Current system is not perfect but at least adds some impartiality to the mix. 

[Lawman]

anecdotally I can tell you the FWQ program was there to reinforce a lot of those deficiencies, but no stated letter would ever be public. From my recollection it was always couched under the assumption the fixed wing fundamental from army undergraduate was simply too short for the usaf liking, not necessarily driving a pointed aspersion at the quality control of army under grad training, green bag or contractor alike.
 
 Concur with the prior comments regarding data mining via GTIMS. The point about UPT 2.5 is valid (garbage product imo), but you can easily compile multi decade samples predating the 2.5 sophistry distraction, and still get a good control group wiht the SUPT 1.0 AF and USN kids. 
Access to the data in a way that can be mined will be the hurdle.

This is good stuff.

A month ago we had a group of senior aviation leaders who were incensed at the fact that there was resistance to the Army making Rucker into a joint rotary wing center of excellence. “What do you mean the AF & Navy aren’t on board!???”

Some of these people are so delusional about their position in the universe or how little we actually train it’s terrifying they are in charge. We’ve been screaming for a decade that our training model is inadequate and units are echoing the same. Don’t give me a “qualified aviator” that I have to teach all the basics to again and who’s only qualification seems to be able to ride along and not turn the aircraft inside out by accident during normal procedures. Right now we make pattern familiar pilots, who have just enough instrument knowledge to execute an emergency recovery badly.


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[ViperMan]

3 hours ago, Lawman said:

A month ago we had a group of senior aviation leaders who were incensed at the fact that there was resistance to the Army making Rucker into a joint rotary wing center of excellence. “What do you mean the AF & Navy aren’t on board!???”

Some of these people are so delusional about their position in the universe or how little we actually train it’s terrifying they are in charge. We’ve been screaming for a decade that our training model is inadequate and units are echoing the same. Don’t give me a “qualified aviator” that I have to teach all the basics to again and who’s only qualification seems to be able to ride along and not turn the aircraft inside out by accident during normal procedures. Right now we make pattern familiar pilots, who have just enough instrument knowledge to execute an emergency recovery badly.

Confirm this is the Army you're talking about?

[Lawman]

Confirm this is the Army you're talking about?

Yes.

Some overzealous people have it in their heads that we can get more dollars and serve more “customers” to consolidate a basic entry rotary program under one roof at Novosel. Then the idea would be to push people to follow on advanced airframes and mission sets and back to their respective services. This would coincide with divestment of the Lakota as our entry trainer to a new trainer or possibly 2 platform solution. I’m firmly in the 2x platform camp on teaching the basics of rotary wing flight in something like the R66 then moving to a more capable aircraft to replicate tactical and national airspace flight training as an intermediate lead in. That way when we put you in a chinook or a 64 we aren’t having to spend much more expensive blade hours teaching the fundamentals of formation flight.

When it was brought up that what we qualify as complete in comparison to our friends at Whiting as well as the entry training fixed wing programs that preceded other services rotary phases you got this confused look from people that they wouldn’t just adopt our shitty model. We also do absolutely 0 mission planning in our advanced airframe training syllabus but we tell units when they get this new winged pilot that they are “mission ready.”

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