Professional pilot kill recreation?

[jspace17]

They say that if you get paid to do something you love, then you never work a day in your life. But they also say that if you throw money in the mix, it makes that 'hobby' feel more like work.

When you're off the clock so to say, do you ever still feel like flying? I've heard stories of certain people getting out of the Air Force or Navy and never flying again but it seems like a lot of people enjoy the career path.

I feel like I won't ever get tired of it but how has it affected you? Do you take your family flying for fun? Ever have planes on buying a small plane? Are the huge amounts of commercial pilots from the Air Force an indicator of a lack of flight time?

I feel like this will be a no-brainer but also curious if a 172 will put any 11Fs to sleep

[HossHarris]

Everything I can afford is too goddamned slow and lacks radar/guns

[jspace17]

Does your family/friends still want you to take them flying? I can understand how a small plane can get boring but has it become a chore or just not as fun?

[Prozac]

Lots of guys get into the military aviation business because it seems like its probably the coolest job in the military (it is), they think a flight suit will get them laid (not so much these days), or it is expected of them by a parent/sibling/etc.  These are typically the people who walk away from the career, never to take the stick again.  Plenty of others truly have the flying bug.  These people have never imagined themselves doing anything else.  For just about anyone, a flying career can be monotonous, exhausting, and a lot of hard work.  But aviation is wide and varied and there is always new, cool shit to do.  Learn to fly a helo, get a tailwheel endorsement, learn how to fly floats, go to Oshkosh, get in with the warbird crowd, fly gliders, and the list goes on and on.  If you have the bug, you will not get tired of aviation (at least not for long).  Sure, there are days when I have stepped out of the airplane feeling tired and weary and not wanting to think about flying at all.  But I'm still looking at Citabrias on barnstormers the next day.

[jspace17]

That's what I was hoping to hear. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be like that too but wanted to see the other side of things. I keep hearing about friends' families getting out and never flying again and it made me think "is it really that bad?"

[carminsandiego]

11 minutes ago, jspace17 said:

That's what I was hoping to hear. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be like that too but wanted to see the other side of things. I keep hearing about friends' families getting out and never flying again and it made me think "is it really that bad?"

it's not that it's "really that bad" but it's that nothing in the civilian side compares to what we do.  

 

For some (very few), going up in a 172 and trolling around without any of big AF control is very relaxing and more enjoyable.  But for most, it's painful to see negative ground speed on a windy day and seeing cars pass you and would rather just relive the glory days over drinks at the VFW

[extender10]

I think that it comes down to wanting to spend the time/$ to keep up the GA flying bug.  

For example some dudes in the squadron I was hired at split shares for a float plane between 3 or 4 dudes.  After UPT I definitely can see myself spending some cash to get my ASES so I can go fly around with them - there is a float plane fly-in north of Travis AFB every year and it just seems like a cool way to experience Cascadia/the west coast especially after I revert to being traditional reservist.  

I think I can get my ASES at Kenmore Air in Seattle for ~$1800 bucks - 6 flights and checkride included, kind of expensive but sounds fun.  I went to school at UW in Seattle and Caravans and Beavers on floats were non-stop on steep approaches into Lake Union, it was awesome to watch in the evening.

I can see flying 172s getting really old after flying jets though.  But things like tailwheel, maybe flying a Pitts, etc all sound interesting to me.

Edited August 22, 2017 by extender10

[LookieRookie]

I've never flown GA and I fly enough mil side. If my flight pay went to $2K per month maybe then I would.

[matmacwc]

I think I'd be bored to tears.

[SocialD]

As a part time 11F who flies for the airlines, I still enjoy the hell out of flying gliders and light GA.  Low, slow, tailwheel, grass strips, fly-ins and fly-in camping trips...great times.  The wing kit for a plane I'm building should be showing up in 4-6 weeks.  Some people have the bug for all flying and others just enjoy the tactical part of our jobs...to each their own.  

[Hacker]

Plenty of airline pilots I know own and fly GA airplanes.  As soon as I dig out of the wreckage of regional and first-year pay, I'll be joining them.

As mentioned, many of them own experimentals or something a little more exciting than a Cherokee or Cessna.

[Snooter]

Seriously?  I can't stand driving more than 3 hours at a stretch anymore and the steering wheel doesn't have fu**ing  trim.  I broke 2000 hrs with the family on a cross country trip in a rented Bonanza. Every day I try to figure out the financing to be able afford a plane on my own so I don't have to drag the family through security or be at the airport at the crack of dawn to meet a departure time.  It is much more relaxing to look at the weather and say, "looks like we're having Cajun food instead of bbq for lunch..."

edit: grammar and punctuation

Edited August 22, 2017 by Snooter

[VMFA187]

Maybe one day when I have a family I could see the benefit of owning a small plane for weekend trips, but as of now the only way I could see getting into GA is if a buddy of mine was willing to purchase a similar aerobatic airplane and we could meet up once in a while for a couple butterfly sets.

That probably won't happen so I'm going to continue putting my money into fast cars and motorcycles.

[Danger41]

If it fucks, flies, or floats it's cheaper to rent.

Thats the main reason GA is hard to get involved with for me.

[hindsight2020]

I've owned an airplane or another since 2009 (gone through 3 so far). The boredom of flying the Buff was actually what precipitated my decision to join the ranks of aircraft ownership. It would have happened anyways, but Lord knows that assignment really pushed me to biting the bullet.

It has been a great lifestyle for my family, and I feel grateful I get to share my passion with a family that enjoys the travel benefits of said hobby. It's not cheap, but because it is a lifestyle and not merely another random hobby, we make it a priority over say ostentatious housing, like many who bemoan their inability to afford it whilst living in their suburban 4/10th of a million dollar gold-plated prisons. Life's a choice.

As to professional flying, my interest was always very narrow in scope. I became interested in pro flying only in order to fly tac airplanes. Though I didn't get to fly the fighter I wanted, I managed to find a substitute I could enjoy (tac trainers). I'm very happy with it. Crew/heavy flying was never a motivator of mine when choosing to become a pilot. Had tac mil flying not been accessible to me, I would have exit stage and kept my flying strictly recreational. I sincerely enjoy recreational piston flying over heavy turbine flying, which is why airline flying is very low in my radar scope, hiring wave be damned. 

BL, professional flying has NOT been a detractor from being able to engage in and enjoy recreational piston flying for me. If anything, it has made it cheaper, as I keep much of my currencies from the day job along with the medical currency, which keeps my wallet free to pursue the kind of recreational flying expenditures I want to enjoy with the family. I fully see myself and my wife incorporating the recreational flying lifestyle into our empty nest and retirement chapters in a couple decades; hopefully airpark living long term. To be clear, I would do this regardless of whether I had become a pro pilot or not. Flying for a living is incidental to my passion for flying, not the other way around. To each their own.

 

 

 

[HossHarris]

8 hours ago, Danger41 said:

If it fucks, flies, or floats it's cheaper to rent.

I have a boat and a wife. 

3 of 3 would break me.

[Majestik Møøse]

I don't have a plane, but an unusually large number of other U-2 guys do. Everyone is dual qual'd in the T-38 and, even though there are lots of out and backs, cross countries, formation, and low levels, dudes still want to fly on the weekends. It's primarily because of Beale's location in the middle of the West Coast. Turns a 3.5hr drive to Monterrey into a <1hr flight, and the fun factor is way better.

Professional pilots don't fly because it's better than their day job, they fly because driving sucks.

[jspace17]

14 hours ago, extender10 said:

I think that it comes down to wanting to spend the time/$ to keep up the GA flying bug.  

For example some dudes in the squadron I was hired at split shares for a float plane between 3 or 4 dudes.  After UPT I definitely can see myself spending some cash to get my ASES so I can go fly around with them - there is a float plane fly-in north of Travis AFB every year and it just seems like a cool way to experience Cascadia/the west coast especially after I revert to being traditional reservist.  

I think I can get my ASES at Kenmore Air in Seattle for ~$1800 bucks - 6 flights and checkride included, kind of expensive but sounds fun.  I went to school at UW in Seattle and Caravans and Beavers on floats were non-stop on steep approaches into Lake Union, it was awesome to watch in the evening.

I can see flying 172s getting really old after flying jets though.  But things like tailwheel, maybe flying a Pitts, etc all sound interesting to me.

I've always liked the idea of ASES but it's one of those things that sounds expensive until you see it on paper. I'm not far from Travis and was just there for my IFC. Looking at all different endorsements has been making me feel like I'll have too long of a list to get bored or complacent with flying but I'm still wet behind the ears with just a PPL.

11 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

BL, professional flying has NOT been a detractor from being able to engage in and enjoy recreational piston flying for me. If anything, it has made it cheaper, as I keep much of my currencies from the day job along with the medical currency, which keeps my wallet free to pursue the kind of recreational flying expenditures I want to enjoy with the family. I fully see myself and my wife incorporating the recreational flying lifestyle into our empty nest and retirement chapters in a couple decades; hopefully airpark living long term. To be clear, I would do this regardless of whether I had become a pro pilot or not. Flying for a living is incidental to my passion for flying, not the other way around. To each their own.

That's a great point too. I didn't know about the medical currency but it makes sense since the AF is far more strict than any FAA class. I agree and I also see potential in getting my future kids involved in flying. Don't have many pilots in my family and I'd like to jump-start that legacy

1 hour ago, Majestik Møøse said:

I don't have a plane, but an unusually large number of other U-2 guys do. Everyone is dual qual'd in the T-38 and, even though there are lots of out and backs, cross countries, formation, and low levels, dudes still want to fly on the weekends. It's primarily because of Beale's location in the middle of the West Coast. Turns a 3.5hr drive to Monterrey into a <1hr flight, and the fun factor is way better.

Professional pilots don't fly because it's better than their day job, they fly because driving sucks.

Too true. Plus I love signature's cookies and ice cream sandwiches down there, haha. Made my first XC flight down to Monterrey from Palo Alto. Great little airport and awesome to be so close to the runway and the beach on the apron. I've always loved the idea of renting a plane to fly to Tahoe for the weekend but that's a $1,000 rental so my friends and I toyed with the idea of buying a Skylane or something.

[the g-man]

1 hour ago, jspace17 said:

 

That's a great point too. I didn't know about the medical currency but it makes sense since the AF is far more strict than any FAA class. I agree and I also see potential in getting my future kids involved in flying. Don't have many pilots in my family and I'd like to jump-start that legacy

 

Don't go too crazy there big hoss, with the FC1 you can only exercise the privileges of a FAA Class 3, which for most is good to fly their own Cessna around.

 

*Caveat, I have heard of dual flight surgeons/AMEs which can issue a FAA Class 1.  But if you go out with your 2992 or whatever stupid form medical gives you once a year and anytime you RTFS, you're FAA Class 3.

 

To answer the original post, if I could afford it I would fly GA more.

[Hacker]

15 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

the only way I could see getting into GA is if a buddy of mine was willing to purchase a similar aerobatic airplane and we could meet up once in a while for a couple butterfly sets.

There's plenty of this out there...EAA chapters...CAF....IAC....you just have to poke around a little bit to find it.

I've spent some time with one of the EAA chapters that has a bunch of well-retired military pilots and current Van's RV drivers who do acro, formation, and a little basic BFM on the weekends.  It is a blast.

[jspace17]

44 minutes ago, the g-man said:

Don't go too crazy there big hoss, with the FC1 you can only exercise the privileges of a FAA Class 3, which for most is good to fly their own Cessna around.

 

*Caveat, I have heard of dual flight surgeons/AMEs which can issue a FAA Class 1.  But if you go out with your 2992 or whatever stupid form medical gives you once a year and anytime you RTFS, you're FAA Class 3.

 

To answer the original post, if I could afford it I would fly GA more.

Good to know, I only have a class 3 now anyways. Don't see myself flying commercial anytime soon but I'll make sure to get checked out before I do. Thank you

[raimius]

Mil flying has met my needs, so far.  That said, if I don't get to fly on duty for a while, I definitely start to miss it.  Sadly, helicopters are stupid expensive...
 

I'm definitely thinking about saving up for an RV-7/8 in the future, though.  The .gov won't pay me to fly forever. 

[TreeA10]

After 30 years and 12,000 hours of flying commercial and military jets, I finally got around to getting my Commercial Single Engine Land rating a couple years ago.  Haven't done much with it other than rent a Cessna or fly a friends Navion around the local area.  My 175 hour CFI looked at my background and said "Hey, you can probably teach me."  My response was, "I know nothing of small airplanes and will probably kill us both."  Went fine other than the humorous attempts trying to find the runway in the flare after many years of sitting 10-12 feet off the concrete. 

[jspace17]

1 hour ago, TreeA10 said:

After 30 years and 12,000 hours of flying commercial and military jets, I finally got around to getting my Commercial Single Engine Land rating a couple years ago.  Haven't done much with it other than rent a Cessna or fly a friends Navion around the local area.  My 175 hour CFI looked at my background and said "Hey, you can probably teach me."  My response was, "I know nothing of small airplanes and will probably kill us both."  Went fine other than the humorous attempts trying to find the runway in the flare after many years of sitting 10-12 feet off the concrete. 

That's a good point, I've heard about the transition from civilian to military flying but not the opposite. Bet those first few landings felt really weird

[HuggyU2]

On 8/21/2017 at 4:24 PM, Prozac said:

But aviation is wide and varied and there is always new, cool shit to do.  Learn to fly a helo, get a tailwheel endorsement, learn how to fly floats, go to Oshkosh, get in with the warbird crowd, fly gliders, and the list goes on and on.  If you have the bug, you will not get tired of aviation (at least not for long).  Sure, there are days when I have stepped out of the airplane feeling tired and weary and not wanting to think about flying at all.  But I'm still looking at Citabrias on barnstormers the next day.

You, my friend, are insightful.  

On 8/21/2017 at 5:47 PM, LookieRookie said:

I've never flown GA and I fly enough mil side. If my flight pay went to $2K per month maybe then I would.

You haven't seen the POWER of the dark side.  Screw the flight pay.  You don't know what you're missing. 

On 8/21/2017 at 6:01 PM, matmacwc said:

I think I'd be bored to tears.

No Sir,... you just need to imagine being terrified at 55 knots.  Or negative 4G's.  Or inverted on a straight-and-level pass at 200' AGL.  I was bored in my '77 Corolla... until I learned to DRIVE it.  

On 8/21/2017 at 6:07 PM, SocialD said:

Words... and more good words.

Yes.  And I respect the hell out of those that have the drive to actually build/create.  Those are the type of people that also give back.  

On 8/21/2017 at 6:39 PM, Hacker said:

As soon as I dig out of the wreckage of regional and first-year pay, I'll be joining them.

Can't wait to see you at a fly-in, Brother!!  And Reno is next month.  Beers are on me.  

On 8/21/2017 at 6:51 PM, Snooter said:

Seriously?  I can't stand driving more than 3 hours at a stretch anymore and the steering wheel doesn't have fu**ing  trim.  I broke 2000 hrs with the family on a cross country trip in a rented Bonanza. Every day I try to figure out the financing to be able afford a plane on my own so I don't have to drag the family through security or be at the airport at the crack of dawn to meet a departure time.  It is much more relaxing to look at the weather and say, "looks like we're having Cajun food instead of bbq for lunch..."

And you know what?  That lifestyle will impact the relationship you have with your kids.  And wife.

And it will be very positive. Good on you, good Sir.  

On 8/21/2017 at 7:16 PM, VMFA187 said:

That probably won't happen so I'm going to continue putting my money into fast cars and motorcycles.

Ah... silly, silly, Grasshopper.  Give up your love of such things as golf, motorcycles, golf, cars, golf, and... did I mention golf?  These things were created by Lucifer to steer you away from your Aviation Destiny.  

Well,... keep the fast car.  But only if it doesn't keep you out of more aviation.  Being able to drive to your 60 mph aircraft in a car that can do 165 mph is kinda worthwhile.  I think.  

On 8/21/2017 at 7:48 PM, Danger41 said:

If it fucks, flies, or floats it's cheaper to rent.

Thats the main reason GA is hard to get involved with for me.

This makes no sense.  Whether you rent or buy Item #2, you simply need to do it.  

As for Items #1 and #3, I have no advice to offer.  

On 8/21/2017 at 8:21 PM, hindsight2020 said:

Flying for a living is incidental to my passion for flying, not the other way around. 

A quotable quote.  

14 hours ago, gearpig said:

The AF paid for 40 hours of flight training prior to my UPT date. I was in a Piper Tomahawk. That sort of ruined my interest in GA. Got my ATP in a Cherokee in a few hours about 12 years ago. Miserable. Flew a cross country with a friend in his Bonanza. a few years back. That was a much better experience, but it was still slow, noisy, poor visibility, and lots of logistics involved.  

The first girl I kissed wasn't much of a kisser.  Neither were the next three.  Thankfully, I didn't give up before I met #5. 

Some airplanes just don't respond well to inputs.  It might not be a problem with "that type of airplane", but rather with "that particular airplane".  I remember my first Extra 300 flight in 1996:  indescribable.  

And now... with 110+ different aircraft in my logbook... I'm happy to say that I'm over 25% of the way to my goal.  They are truly, unique experiences.  

Not to mention the amazing people I have met along the way.  I should have written a book.  

Awesome thread, jspace.  

Edited August 23, 2017 by HuggyU2