Leaving the Air Force for Something Other than the Airlines

[guineapigfury]

Deployed LR is where it's at.  But this game is volatile.  I saw a dude go through the cycle of hired-deployed-fired in about 5 weeks.

[HU&W]

36 minutes ago, guineapigfury said:

Deployed LR is where it's at.  But this game is volatile.  I saw a dude go through the cycle of hired-deployed-fired in about 5 weeks.

I don't know if deployments or shift work after retirement are "where it's at" for me.

[herkbum]

I thought that is what you meant and I agree with HU&W.  If kids were older, then I "might" think about it.

[Hacker]

It is sad when the airlines -- even considering what's happened in the industry in the last 15 years -- are considered a more stable long term gig than most of the DoD contract flying jobs.

[Day Man]

12 hours ago, guineapigfury said:

Deployed LR is where it's at

??

[LookieRookie]

29 minutes ago, Day Man said:

??

Launch and recovery for RPAs

[JS]

Also, Lockheed Martin is still cranking out C-130's at a good clip and there is an Airbus factory in Mobile, Alabama doing the same.  I know of a few folks who have worked at both places - some of the C-130 guys still test fly the birds as they come off the assembly line.  Decent pay as well.  

 

 

[Learjetter]

I couldn't do the a-word without a class 1 medical...so I opted for a GS14 FAA gig in Flight Standards.  I am remotely sited, lots of telework opportunities, occasional sims...and I fly .civ to keep some air under my butt and sharp-ish about aviation.   Work with lots of former mil controllers and flyers, so culture is ok.  Fed bennies are nothing to sneeze at. Advancement opportunities exist to SES levels, if so inclined.

Works for us.  Can recommend. 4/5 stars..

[pbar]

On 8/28/2017 at 2:02 PM, tk1313 said:

You had me at "bar"... Are you still at Eglin or nearby? If so, PM the restaurant name/loc and I'll gladly give you my money. If you serve raw oysters on the half shell from Apilachicola I'll probably stop there exclusively when I'm in town.

No, it's in a suburb of Atlanta.  Thanks for the support though!

[HuggyU2]

When I retired 35 months ago, I went straight into an Executive Director position, with the expectation that if I did well, I'd be CEO in ~3 years.  

The position got me access to CEO's, millionaires, entrepreneurs, and a host of other highly successful... and famous... people.  The social events were off the chart.  

However, after 18 months, I resigned.  Entirely too much work, no free time, and high stress led to this.  I appreciated the organization bringing me on, but in the end, it wasn't the right fit.  It did scratch the itch I'd had for a long time in doing this type of job.  Glad I got to go to that side of the business world.. and maybe I'll go back some day.  

But for now, the airline lifestyle and benefits are a better fit.  

 

[Flaco]

On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 0:22 PM, pbar said:

Hasn't been my experience.  My wife has wanted to start a bar/restaurant forever and so we decided to go ahead and do it concurrent with my retirement.  In preparation, I read a couple "how-to" start a business books and attended a Boots 2 Business course on base.

Now I understand why many entrepreneurs say you have to fail a couple of times before you become successful.  

Many businesses will lose money and then fail after a few years. But there does seem to be a point in business where if you a doing a good job and stick with it, word of mouth reaches critical mass and that's where the business will take off. In tech they call this "hockey stick" growth. I'm not in the tech world, but that has definitely been my experience. Stick with it long enough, you'll become and expert in whichever field you're in, and the market will reward you. Best wishes to you man!

[skibum]

I went from full time to part time military not too long ago and transitioned to full time (non-airlines) work. I decided no airlines (various reasons), and did not want to be a contractor. The idea of wandering around in a polo shirt, khakis and cheap shoes with my badge around my neck, talking to people who don't really give a fvck and having some toolbox O-6 boss me around did not seem fun. I decided to just go for the big jobs and was surprised by how many offers I got. What I found was industry and other agencies were looking for leadership, and they were willing to bid for someone with a military track record. They cared little for technical background. I didn't choose the highest offer (money was important but not the most important) but instead went for location and the the type of industry I had also been interested in. In the end, I might make more money than an airline bubba some day but probably not. I'm home most nights. I travel if/when I want. I got a hefty pay raise. Just like flying, I have a job where most people actually pay to go do it and others are surprised I get paid. Since staring, I've hired a few guys retiring off active duty, so it's not like I fell into a one-off opportunity.

My advice - do what you want, don't aim low on the positions, and go for your dream job. Make someone pay you (a lot) to do what you would do for fun.

[Day Man]

what is this magical job? asking for a friend...

[Pancake]

A couple of folks have posted about having great jobs, but leave out the specifics. Just tell us what you do, exactly. Provide specific compensation information. The airline info is out there, and really, there's no reason to be vague with the details of these non-airline careers (unless they're really not that great?).

No offense, but without specific info, these jobs begin to sound like "ask me how I make $1000 a day working from home" scams.

With a fresh MBA in hand, I did my diligence seeking a non-airline career when I separated in 2012. Granted, besides flying, I have a non-technical background (poli sci from the Zoo). Standard GE Junior Officer LP, consultant (Booz Allen, Deloitte), Raytheon, and the CIA were the only bites I got and none fell into "dream job" status. Other than the companies listed above, no one I spoke to was really interested in hiring someone with a non-technical degree (more likely, it was just me). I even sensed a little "military fatigue" from the recruiters I spoke to ("yeah, yeah, leadership, MBA, flying, but what else do you offer"). After considering pay/benefits versus time away from home, the stability afforded with getting in at the front end of the hiring wave (2014), and control of my life, airline pilot was the clear choice. I begrudgingly admit that because to an extent I still equate airline pilot to glorified bus driver (no offense to bus drivers... it's important work). I suspect a detail that's being left out of these success stories (except maybe Huggy's example), is networking or an already established relationship leading into a transition from mil to civ, which is difficult or impossible for AD pilots to build in anything but contracting or staff work.

On long-term mil leave now and still searching/resume building for that professionally fulfilling career I can get into (or more likely do in addition to the airlines) after I retire in a couple of years.

Great thread, just wish we could get some more details from the few that have found the golden unicorn.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Pancake

[old crow]

Not sure it's a "golden unicorn" but here's some details about a certain large company that rhymes with "Bmazon":

- Loves hiring military officers.  FGOs typically roll into an Operations Manager job.  CGOs/SNCOs into an Area Manager job.  My OM counterparts were all retired O-5/O-6s and most were former AF pilots.

- Operations Manager = $110K-ish per year + $50K first year bonus....plus stock.  Second year bonus is $45K.  Awarded 300+ shares of stock upon hire (vesting over 4 years).  Not sure how much stock given now, but that is 300+K in stock...not too shabby for a mouth-breathing moron with a shitty AF-mandated Masters Degree.

- Easy growth and promotion opportunities

- 4 day work week (mostly) which is cool, but you could end up on shift work

- Rough company culture.  Most managers bail at the 1-2 year point.

 

Agree with many of the previous points that have been pointed out.  Corporate 'Merica is looking for leadership.  Don't be afraid to apply to jobs that aren't in your technical wheelhouse....you'd be surprised at what doors can be opened because of your military leadership.

 

 

[HuggyU2]

8 hours ago, Pancake said:

... there's no reason to be vague with the details of these non-airline careers (unless they're really not that great?).

 

You're wrong.  The reasons for omitting some details varies from person to person.  

Many people do not want to discuss their salary on a public forum.  And for many different reasons.  

In my case, I signed a legal document when I resigned that prevents me from stating much more than I did.  

Simply be happy with the information you DID get and add it to your list of data points.  

[Pancake]

46 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

Simply be happy with the information you DID get and add it to your list of data points.  

I understand what you're saying with regard to sharing corporate information/salary data, but simply stating "I make good money, this job has its pluses and minuses, shoot for the stars," really isn't tangible, meaningful information. It's fun to read about people finding success outside of military, but most of the information shared thus far is anecdotal and provides little context.

Old Crow, thanks for contributing the information above... helpful for those of us still mulling a career change after going to the airlines.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Pancake

[pawnman]

5 hours ago, Pancake said:

I understand what you're saying with regard to sharing corporate information/salary data, but simply stating "I make good money, this job has its pluses and minuses, shoot for the stars," really isn't tangible, meaningful information. It's fun to read about people finding success outside of military, but most of the information shared thus far is anecdotal and provides little context.

Old Crow, thanks for contributing the information above... helpful for those of us still mulling a career change after going to the airlines.

-2

I don't want to compel anyone to divulge more than they want/are legally allowed to...but the airline thread is ripe with tactics, techniques, and procedures to get picked up by any number of companies.  I'd love to see more actionable information that those of us pondering and exit (and without the ol' airline gig to fall back on) could use to find something else in corporate America.

[pbar]

The one gotcha to Amazon is that you have to be willing to relocate to where they want you to live.  Retiring AF friend of mine interviewed with them and during the 2nd interview round the first question was, "Are you willing to relocate to where we need you?  If you answer no, the interview is over."   I spent 23 years putting up with living in places I didn't want to live so Amazon was not for me, plus another retired B-1 WSO who I know got an Amazon ops manager job, quit after a couple of years because he said it was too many 12 hour days.  

I'd recommend any non-pilots looking for post-AF employment get a PMP program manager certification which can be had for free through Syracuse University Veteran's Transition Program as that seems to be a very common thing to have for transition into the corporate world.    You can also take the exact same courseware on AF e-Learning but then you'd have to pay for the $500 test yourself. Got a late start on mine but I wish I had done it as a junior major as I learned a lot of stuff that would have been useful for the AF jobs I had.  Hell, I think the AF would probably be better off replacing ACSC DL with a PMP cert course.   

[old crow]

23 minutes ago, pbar said:

The one gotcha to Amazon is that you have to be willing to relocate to where they want you to live.  Retiring AF friend of mine interviewed with them and during the 2nd interview round the first question was, "Are you willing to relocate to where we need you?  If you answer no, the interview is over."   I spent 23 years putting up with living in places I didn't want to live so Amazon was not for me, plus another retired B-1 WSO who I know got an Amazon ops manager job, quit after a couple of years because he said it was too many 12 hour days.  

I'd recommend any non-pilots looking for post-AF employment get a PMP program manager certification which can be had for free through Syracuse University Veteran's Transition Program as that seems to be a very common thing to have for transition into the corporate world.    You can also take the exact same courseware on AF e-Learning but then you'd have to pay for the $500 test yourself. Got a late start on mine but I wish I had done it as a junior major as I learned a lot of stuff that would have been useful for the AF jobs I had.  Hell, I think the AF would probably be better off replacing ACSC DL with a PMP cert course.   

YMMV.  I told them I was only available for one location...the one close to my house.  Wasn't a problem.  Also, when I interviewed folks for Amazon, that was NOT one of the questions I asked.  (In fairness, that question might be asked by the recruiter or HR).

"Too many 12 hour days"....yup....like every day.  Holiday season (Peak) is the worst...16+ hour days 6 days a week, but it's all part of the "wonderful" experience.

 

Big 2 on the PMP.  I've found it to be very helpful post-AF.  However, I found the Syracuse program to be crap...didn't prep me to pass the exam.  Some of it may be my fault for treating it like a CBT, but still.   (The exam is no joke...don't expect to pass without a lot of studying).  I did a 1-week Boot Camp for $2K.  Passed the test first try.  Consider the Boot Camp + $500 exam fee + yearly PMI membership to be an investment in yourself.  PMP + MBA + military = $$$.  (And having Amazon, Google, Facebook, Apple, etc on your resume/LinkedIn helps a lot as well).

[nunya]

17 minutes ago, old crow said:

 (The exam is no joke...don't expect to pass without a lot of studying).

2!  Not to derail this into a PMP thread, but do not go into the exam without knowing this process chart and these formulas cold.  I wouldn't have passed if I had done just the Syracuse courseware and not done substantial other prep. 

[Pancake]

16 hours ago, Justonethought said:

2- If you came here looking to confirm your decision to fly for the airlines you will find it, and it is likely the right choice anyway if that is the case.

3 - seek out all sources of information.  I have no doubt the airlines is a sweet lifestyle with good pay.  I just wouldn't come here and expect many alternative experiences.

2- Hardly. It's a good fall back until I/in case I don't find that dream job. Pay/time off/bennies are great, but I don't find satisfaction in the work.

3- Not sure what you mean here. If we can only get the general experiences of the non-airline folks, void of salary, specific details of duties, sector/company name, strategies to get hired, I'm not sure how useful this thread will end up being. That said, there have been a few posts that provided tangible info useful in pursuing other opportunities. Thanks to those contributors.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Pancake

[Pancake]

2 hours ago, Justonethought said:

If you are looking for some unbiased arbiter to compare airline flying to corporate executive you likely won't find one.  The experience required in each field forces you to make a choice between one or the other.

Ha! This is getting funny.

I'm not.

Nevermind.

[HuggyU2]

Pancake, 

Business jobs are completely varied.  Comparing upper level management benefits is futile.  And a part of that is what you negotiate (already mentioned by others).  And even if you knew my base salary, I wouldn't want to try to explain the metrics associated with the bonuses I was eligible for since it would put you to sleep.  

Additionally, you contradict yourself.  You say the pay and benefits in the airlines are great, but you're not satisfied.  Then go find something that will satisfy you, if that's what's important.  But don't complain about the lack of pay information here:  you've already stated your current well-paying gig isn't cutting it, so what does it matter?

As for executive level jobs, if you weren't an O-6 who can get an executive headhunter, you better have networked very, very well over the past few years.  As a retired O-5, getting directly into the Executive Director job, my situation isn't too common.  And it didn't happen by accident.  If that's what you're looking for, do you have those kind of connections?  

Finally, you can do another job AS an airline pilot.  I met a jumpseater that was furloughed for 9 years, and went and got a law degree.  He does wills, trusts, and that sort of thing on layovers.  In my case, I am doing a plethora of odd, part-time jobs that are "satisfying".  

You should have the time to do something satisfying too.  My gut feeling is that you just need to think outside the box.  

Edited September 2, 2017 by HuggyU2

[ClearedHot]

Every person has a unique situation and at the end of the day I strongly encourage each person to follow the path that provides the most happiness and satisfaction to both you AND your family.  Honestly I did not put as much thought into the “after” plan as I should have.  I’ve invested well and don’t need to work, but as I got closer I decided I still wanted to avoid becoming a sloth and do something meaningful, at least for a few years.  I hit the button a year in advance and the airline gig was really heating up, with over 4,000 hours TT and 2500+ IP time I thought it was a no-brainer, I could work part-time make decent cash and have the travel benefit for my family.  I obviously have many bros at Delta and Fedex and they shared the good and the bad, so I decided to make that plan A. My plan had two basic flaws that were mistakes on my part, not insurmountable, but still limitations I needed to overcome.

1.  I had been sitting at a desk for the last two years NOT flying.

2.  I had not completed my ATP and now had to do the ATP/CTP course.

I started flying private again and signed up for the CTP deal (what a complete waste), and built my application on airline apps.  I hit the apply button with the written complete and provided updates with the CTP complete, new hours flown and finally added my ATP practical two weeks after my retirement ceremony.  When I hit the last update button with the ATP complete I thought, “ok the phone will ring any day now”…it did not.

Luckily I talked to a lot of folks (including Rainman), and I had a plan B that I was also working.  There are MANY resources for vets and Rainman walked me through several I had never heard of which, one really really helped (https://www.acp-usa.org/).  In very short order I was contacted about several positions, I had not applied to any of them, all word of mouth through my network.  I made it to the final two for a very senior job and was a bit relieved when I did not get it (location).  Over the course of a month I interviewed with several major defense contractors, with Google, with one of the largest food production companies, and with a major university.  I don’t want this to turn into a dissertation but I learned some valuable lessons.

1.  Industry is STARVED for leadership. 

2.  Industry professes to love Vets but in reality they are very concerned about them.  Many think every Vet has PTSD.

3.  Most jobs come from contacts and networking.

4. Industry has all the same problems and BS the military has.  As a SQ/CC, Grp/CC, Wg/CC I had to deal with DUIs, Rapes, theft and other buffoonery.  I have encountered many of the same issues at my current level in Industry.

After a flurry of interviews things went quiet for a while which was EXTREMELY frustrating.  Industry hiring moves at a glacial pace and I began to contemplate outright retirement.  I was REALLY shocked the airlines hadn’t called and am honestly still somewhat perplexed by that fact.  I have since learned how important recency is to the majors, I get it they are the pros, but it does not make sense to me.  When I returned to fly as a O-5 it took two weeks to requal.  When I returned as an O-6 I was scheduled for 10 rides, I did three rides and proficiency advanced to my checkride as a mission IP.  I was flying civilian but still had less than 100 hours in the last six months…oh well it is their ball and their game, they get to make the rules.

Four months later I got the call from Delta, over nine months after I first hit apply.  The next day I got a call from a company I interviewed with early on…the made me an offer (turns out they were waiting for a senior dude to say yes and he didn’t know he had to say yes.)  I sat down with my family and we had some long deliberations.  Every situation is different and my family was tired of me being gone all the time.  My son was established in school so taking a position with Delta was going to mean commuting and sitting reserve in a crash pad for at least a year.  I must say after going through all the asspain it was not easy to call Delta and say "no thanks!"

In the end I was able to parlay the industry position into a remote position working from my house.  My company flies me to the home office once a month and I generally leave on Monday morning and return Friday night.  The other travel has ramped up a bit but some of that is seasonal, some was unexpected because our company is GROWING, and the rest is self-imposed.  I ended up starting at about 7-8 year airline pay, well over that with my annual bonus which means I can do this for a few years and walk away with another chunk of $ to add to my portfolio.  We bought a few new toys but I have managed to save every penny of my retirement check.  It was not a simple choice but it works for me and most importantly my family.