Leaving the Air Force for Something Other than the Airlines

[BadgerDave]

For those interested in hearing the fire mission in action, there's some good traffic of the tankers working the Camp fire near Chico, CA available here during daytime hours:

https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/20854/web

If looking for a phone option, I use the Scanner Radio Deluxe app

 

[Shaft34]

Link to the DynCorp job posting as of 11/16/18:

https://dyncorp.taleo.net/careersection/2/jobdetail.ftl?job=429005&src=JB-10060

[HuggyU2]

Shaft,

Post some pics of you fighting the fires up here in NorCal.  

[Prozac]

I looked into these jobs a few years back when we moved to California. Very dynamic, interesting flying for sure. I’m in SoCal so the length of the season was a non starter for me (two young kids at home) and I took a cushy airline job. Tons of respect and hats off to the guys that do this job though. These guys literally saved my home last year when it was threatened by the liberty fire. Had there not been air on scene very quickly, there’s no doubt in my mind that hundreds of homes would’ve been destroyed. Instead, one home and an out structure were all that was lost. If there’s anyone here who worked that fire, PM me. Seriously. I owe you a bottle. 

[Shaft34]

On 11/19/2018 at 9:07 PM, HuggyU2 said:

Shaft,

Post some pics of you fighting the fires up here in NorCal.  

Sure...here you go. I was actually in SoCal.

Woolsey Fire on 11/11/18 in the West Hills area and Fox Tanker Base in Lancaster. Screen shots are from local CBS news chopper in LA. The shadow makes for an interesting image.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Shaft34

[Homestar]

that first picture looked like a drawing.  Those are very cool looking planes!

[Marco]

Hoser still flying w/ y’all? Or has age finally forced retirement? Great American, that man is.

[Shaft34]

3 hours ago, Marco said:

Hoser still flying w/ y’all? Or has age finally forced retirement? Great American, that man is.

I think he stopped flying about 3-4 yrs ago and retired 2 yrs ago. Definitely a legend!

[Tanker 78]

2 hours ago, Shaft34 said:

I think he stopped flying about 3-4 yrs ago and retired 2 yrs ago. Definitely a legend!

Been here three years and meet him once at the beginning of my first year.  I was introduced as the new guy who used to fly Hawgs.  He immediately checked my back for bird strikes.  Sharp even on the way to retirement.  

[FLEA]

Bringing my conversation to this thread so I don't derail the airline thread. 

Question on guard/reserve jobs, my understanding is it's very difficult to get hired on guard/reserves as a Lt Col due to the limited number of billets in a squadron for O-5 and the unit preference to award those to people that grew up in the unit. 

Am I wrong though I'm assuming that advice is mainly geared toward flying jobs? It seems to me that there are staffs out there filled with reservist, where an O-5 would be more appropriate. 

[herkbum]

Bringing my conversation to this thread so I don't derail the airline thread. 
Question on guard/reserve jobs, my understanding is it's very difficult to get hired on guard/reserves as a Lt Col due to the limited number of billets in a squadron for O-5 and the unit preference to award those to people that grew up in the unit. 
Am I wrong though I'm assuming that advice is mainly geared toward flying jobs? It seems to me that there are staffs out there filled with reservist, where an O-5 would be more appropriate. 

Typically the answer is yes. But I transferred units last year as a Lt Col so I could fly manned airplanes again, so it’s possible. The transfer was a reward since I stepped away from my RPA unit for a year to be a SQ/CC at a non flying squadron.


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[hindsight2020]

8 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Bringing my conversation to this thread so I don't derail the airline thread. 

Question on guard/reserve jobs, my understanding is it's very difficult to get hired on guard/reserves as a Lt Col due to the limited number of billets in a squadron for O-5 and the unit preference to award those to people that grew up in the unit. 

Am I wrong though I'm assuming that advice is mainly geared toward flying jobs? It seems to me that there are staffs out there filled with reservist, where an O-5 would be more appropriate. 

It's very difficult to get hired as an AGR, because the O-5 AGR billets at the flight level are scarce. You cannot overgrade AGR positions as they are controlled aka an O-5 in an O-4 AGR billet. 

TR/DSG is much easier, since most units play the shell game of "overage", then swap people in and out of permanent positions the UMD, giving them another 2 years. Rinse and repeat. It's a risk like everything else, but for the most part it works at kicking the can down the road. ARTs have no rank restriction, but nowadays you're looking at people running back to the units, some never to return to the airline game, so the musical chairs on the full-time side have kinda stopped for a couple years.

The other piece where being an O-5 already gets more complicated is the waiver of sanctuary stuff, if your unit is tracking active retirements. O-5s are generally getting close in AD time, and the units don't want to have a guy show up for the proverbial one day and boom, claim sanctuary the second he gets on a 30+ day set of MPA. Color or money and all that jazz.

BL, it's not particularly exigent an ask to get hired as an O-5 TR in a flying unit. AGR is much more difficult, especially as an outsider to the unit (it's pretty much unheard of, unless the command climate is super toxic at said unit already).

Hardest part is letting go of the rope. Good luck, you're not the first one nor last one to make the jump. It's gonna be alright. 😄 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by hindsight2020

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, hindsight2020 said:

Hardest part is letting go of the rope. Good luck, you're not the first one nor last one to make the jump. It's gonna be alright. 😄 

 

you aint wrong...im holding onto the rope and looking down *gulp*

but i'm going to let go...i promise...this december...(i think)...(FML).....(airlines come back).....

[FLEA]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

you aint wrong...im holding onto the rope and looking down *gulp*

but i'm going to let go...i promise...this december...(i think)...(FML).....(airlines come back).....

I've worked corporate before and detested it. I was an intern in the financial sector in college and it just wasn't for me. I think my biggest fear is it's going to feel the same going back. I have no doubt I'll find work but it's all up to 1.) Will I get a salary that's competitive with what I'm leaving the military with (with flight pay and if I would have taken the bonus) and 2.) What's the quality of life? I'm willing to take a substantial hit to #1 if #2 is substantially better. But I'm afraid it will be like I remember as an intern in which case its really going to suck.

That said, I can't watch my wife's mental health deteriorate any longer. So I'm absolutely committed to leaving after this tour. I've had several people reccommend real estate so I think I'm going to look into that. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by FLEA

[jazzdude]

You can also look into being a sim instructor, whether for the Air Force, or for Flight Safety or CAE, etc. Had sq mates go that route and they seemed pretty happy with it. Not really flying, but not a desk job either. Pay seems to be decent from what I've heard doing those gigs. Some defense contractors also have sim instructor or test positions as well.

It's not easy to match O-4 with flight pay, bonus and a little extra to match the tax advantage of BAH with anything besides stepping into a legacy airline, or maybe an engineer, and even then it'll be a big pay cut for about a year. My quick napkin math puts it at $180K to be at pay parity as a flying O4 on the bonus (ignoring any CZTE, per diem, etc), so you may want to start running your budget/adjusting lifestyle to something lower, maybe for at least a couple years as you make the transition.

I know someone else mentioned it, but also consider non-flying reserves, since it'll likely have a much lower time commitment, especially if you're concerned about time away from home, unless your willing to move to your reserve job.

[SocialD]

10 hours ago, FLEA said:

Bringing my conversation to this thread so I don't derail the airline thread. 

 

Too late...they're talking about PME and college professors over there.

 

10 hours ago, FLEA said:

Question on guard/reserve jobs, my understanding is it's very difficult to get hired on guard/reserves as a Lt Col due to the limited number of billets in a squadron for O-5 and the unit preference to award those to people that grew up in the unit. 

 

The issue in the ANG is control grades.  For full time O5, there has to be a control grade available and each base only gets X control grades.  There is lots of horse trading that goes one around the Wing when needed to make it work.  I would say it's not impossible, but yes it can be more difficult to get full time if you're already an O5.  Every Wing allocates their control grades differently.  After talking with a pilot in another Wing in my state, I learned that, compared to his squadron, we have a crazy amount of control grades in OPS.  I guess that's why you can't swing a dead cat in ops without hitting 5 Lt Cols. 

Maybe someone smarter on control grades can pipe up.  I'm an O5 that never plans on going full time, so I've never really thought much about them.  

 

[hindsight2020]

2 hours ago, SocialD said:

 

Too late...they're talking about PME and college professors over there.

 

 

The issue in the ANG is control grades.  For full time O5, there has to be a control grade available and each base only gets X control grades.  There is lots of horse trading that goes one around the Wing when needed to make it work.  I would say it's not impossible, but yes it can be more difficult to get full time if you're already an O5.  Every Wing allocates their control grades differently.  After talking with a pilot in another Wing in my state, I learned that, compared to his squadron, we have a crazy amount of control grades in OPS.  I guess that's why you can't swing a dead cat in ops without hitting 5 Lt Cols. 

Maybe someone smarter on control grades can pipe up.  I'm an O5 that never plans on going full time, so I've never really thought much about them.  

 

That's just fighter privilege bruh. 😄 Jest aside, see my comments above regarding controlled grades. BL, it ain't gonna happen for our esteemed aspiring quitter unless he does some time as a TR/DSG first.

 

[El Duderino]

FLEA, what airframe are you on, how many years of service do you have and how long till you can leave AD?

[FLEA]

3 hours ago, El Duderino said:

FLEA, what airframe are you on, how many years of service do you have and how long till you can leave AD?

I'll send you a PM. My airframe is unique and a small community; i dont want the bobs to know im thinking to leave yet. 

[AirGuardianC141747]

2 hours ago, FLEA said:

I'll send you a PM. My airframe is unique and a small community; i dont want the bobs to know im thinking to leave yet. 

What would you say you really do here? I’ve got people skills dammit!!! Great Bobs reference Flea and exceptional SA. 

[Snuggie]

On 6/12/2020 at 2:05 AM, FLEA said:

 I've had several people reccommend real estate so I think I'm going to look into that. 

Realtor here! My wife runs a real estate business in Las Vegas and Omaha and I have my license in both locations to help (I have another separate non-flying full time job). It's a hard job to do well but if you find your niche you can make bank. My wife out earned me as a flying O-4 last year and is on track to do even better this year.

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions about real estate as there is a lot to consider if you decide to go that way. 

[FLEA]

Ok so I thought I was set on the Airlines but something just came up and I'm just doing my due diligence to weigh it. I may have a pathway to an M7 MBA program (Booth). However, I would be finishing it at 38 years old. I'm not really sure it would be the "oompf" i'm looking for to take my career to the next level. Anyone not doing airlines care to weigh in? Would this be a huge opportunity for me? I've heard it both ways. 1.) By the time your in your late 30's you are much older than typical MBA candidates and employers expect you have already held the entry level positions an M7 MBA would grant you access to. 2.) For a transitioning vet an M7 MBA says you possess both the skills and the talent to function well in a high end corporate environment. 

[jonlbs]

1 hour ago, FLEA said:

Ok so I thought I was set on the Airlines but something just came up and I'm just doing my due diligence to weigh it. I may have a pathway to an M7 MBA program (Booth). However, I would be finishing it at 38 years old. I'm not really sure it would be the "oompf" i'm looking for to take my career to the next level. Anyone not doing airlines care to weigh in? Would this be a huge opportunity for me? I've heard it both ways. 1.) By the time your in your late 30's you are much older than typical MBA candidates and employers expect you have already held the entry level positions an M7 MBA would grant you access to. 2.) For a transitioning vet an M7 MBA says you possess both the skills and the talent to function well in a high end corporate environment. 

To me it all comes down with how do you want to spend your future.

Spent 2+ years at MIT and it was so exciting and everyone is busting their ass nonstop. Assume most M7 schools (had to google it) will be like that. But at some point you have to look forward and see if that type A hard work lifestyle is for you. Had a lot of vets at Sloan and they all seemed to kill it cause they were type A hard workers.

I sided with the no boss, no emails, no deadlines, airline career. But that is cause I would rather spend my life relaxing. I do miss it from time to time but then remember how grueling the work was.

If it is a money question then the ceiling is way higher in the MBA world. But airline pay isn't terrible either.

 

Hope that perspective helps. Can elaborate more if needed, my thoughts seem kinda disjointed.

Edited February 11, 2022 by jonlbs

[Lord Ratner]

Also, if money is your primary concern, remember that *no one* makes the big bucks working for the man (except actors and athletes). 

If you're motivated and intelligent enough to make it in the business world, you're almost certainly capable of running a business yourself. The time required to get to the executive level is usually longer than the time to start making good money being the founder. Obviously the risk is much higher too

[skibum]

You gotta ask yourself what you REALLY want. You need to be completely honest. With an M7 & a mil background there are plenty of high career trajectories. It won't be the same as if you were 20 something, but it will still get you the high dollar, high paced career. On the other hand, you can make a little less in the airlines, doing meaningless work but get half your life back. Again, be honest with yourself. What you you want?