Leaving the Air Force for Something Other than the Airlines

[HossHarris]

53 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

So what if you don't want to go to the airlines or get a PhD, want to be home every night, and don't want to work 16 hours a day? Fighter type with engineering degree/experience.

Walmart greeter. 

[nunya]

Edward Jones.

[Guest]

So what if you don't want to go to the airlines or get a PhD, want to be home every night, and don't want to work 16 hours a day? Fighter type with engineering degree/experience.

Sim instructor

[JeremiahWeed]

21 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

So what if you don't want to go to the airlines or get a PhD, want to be home every night, and don't want to work 16 hours a day? Fighter type with engineering degree/experience.

ATAC adversary pilot?

[hindsight2020]

36 minutes ago, JeremiahWeed said:

ATAC adversary pilot?

Not generally available as a full time position, day rates are not that competitive (compared to some of the nicer part91/91k equipment), and not a true homesteading gig either. But sure, it is an option post-retirement just as any of the ones offered on this thread already.

The thing for me is that, AD retirement is not enough take home to really rely on "gig" work in order to make it to the finish line of retirement income replacement of 75% of an O-5 take home in peak earning years. You need another supra-six-figure career destination with retirement vehicles to match, in order to truly replace that purchasing power. Mil retirement is truly a lot smaller than is marketed.

Edited September 23, 2017 by hindsight2020

[hindsight2020]

14 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

Sim instructor

yup, if you can stomach the location. Big non-starter for many of these gigs. Same deal with the federal flying positions currently available out there. Location is a big sticking point for most. if not a limfac then I would agree, certainly an option that meets the hours and homesteading criteria of the OP.

[olevelo]

So what if you don't want to go to the airlines or get a PhD, want to be home every night, and don't want to work 16 hours a day? Fighter type with engineering degree/experience.

My plan is to be a really good gambler. Primarily poker and sports.

[Duck]

Stay-at-home, trophy husband. That’s my plan. We will see what my wife says.

[matmacwc]

On 9/22/2017 at 6:40 PM, Kenny Powers said:

So what if you don't want to go to the airlines or get a PhD, want to be home every night, and don't want to work 16 hours a day? Fighter type with engineering degree/experience.

Same boat, defense consulting, real estate or a sim job is what I'm looking at.

[SocialD]

20 hours ago, matmacwc said:

Same boat, defense consulting, real estate or a sim job is what I'm looking at.

Every consultant I know (not all defense guys), spends more time on airliners and in hotels than I do as an airline guy.  On the upside, you'll get to rock your polo/khaki/loafer/lanyard getup, hanging out in squadron bars all over the US.  With a 20 year pension, I would opt for the sim job and do real estate on the side.  You can continue to relive the glory days of when you used to be a fighter pilot, but still have a nice supplemental income.  As long as there is a sim in your desired location, sim jobs seem super chill, with good work hours and decent money.  Supplementing it with real estate is a smart choice in case the sims go away or if there is any amount of lengthy downtime (ref. Burlington sims).  It seems like most sim facilities have part time options, being able to transition to part time would be nice if the real estate side took off.     

[ChkHandleDn]

On 9/23/2017 at 7:53 PM, hindsight2020 said:

yup, if you can stomach the location. Big non-starter for many of these gigs. Same deal with the federal flying positions currently available out there. Location is a big sticking point for most. if not a limfac then I would agree, certainly an option that meets the hours and homesteading criteria of the OP.

Unless you're an airline sim instructor. That can be a great deal if you live in base. Home every night, six hour days, good pay. Heard a rumor highest paid airline guy is a WB sim IP. 

[SocialD]

6 hours ago, ChkHandleDn said:

Unless you're an airline sim instructor.  That can be a great deal if you live in base. Home every night, six hour days, good pay.  Heard a rumor highest paid airline guy is a WB sim IP. 

This!  They have a damn good schedule if they live in base.  They're supposed to go fly the line every couple months, but training is so busy, many haven't flown in 7+ months.  Based on listening to a few WB Capt instructors talk about how many extra sims they're picking up, I'm guessing many of our WB Captain instructors are easily up over 500k in total compensation (with some well above that).  Not bad for being home almost every night.  

Edited September 26, 2017 by SocialD

[hindsight2020]

On 9/26/2017 at 4:14 PM, SocialD said:

This!  They have a damn good schedule if they live in base.  They're supposed to go fly the line every couple months, but training is so busy, many haven't flown in 7+ months.  Based on listening to a few WB Capt instructors talk about how many extra sims they're picking up, I'm guessing many of our WB Captain instructors are easily up over 500k in total compensation (with some well above that).  Not bad for being home almost every night.  

 

I was under the impression that not all airlines run their sim jobs by plucking from their active line pilot list, plenty subcontracting and non-line-pilot employees abound in these jobs. Which is another way of saying: not all airline sim jobs are paid as well as those done by seniority list pilots (aka United).

I know United sim jobs are done by listed pilots, but I thought DL/AA/SW didn't? I know FDX sim guys are are not line pilots nor paid anywhere near what their pilots do. The schedules are homesteading for sure, but plenty of 2am box times abound these days, so schedules are not exactly cake.

At any rate, not disagreeing, but not all airline sim jobs are as lucrative as the United guys for instance. I suppose for those in the know, would you mind listing which airlines use their line pilots and which doesn't? Because the pay gap is significant between these jobs, at times as much a difference as the gap between what FFD and mainline pilots get paid. And to be pedantic, if you gotta get hired as a pilot to apply for a sim job, technically you did go to the airlines, so it doesn't exactly go with the spirit of the thread, I digress.

 

[HuggyU2]

On 9/26/2017 at 7:29 AM, ChkHandleDn said:

Heard a rumor highest paid airline guy is a WB sim IP. 

When you "hear a rumor" relating to things that affect airline pilots, get the name of the flight attendant that told you.  

[sputnik]

I know plenty of folks at Delta that made it to the training department in two years or less.  Some civ some mil.

2020, Delta uses primarily seniority list pilots.  But also has some non seniority guys as well.   Seniority list instructors get paid at the highest FO seat they can hold.  Today that means they all make 777 FO pay, guarantee 85 hours a month.  Most guys I know are hitting 100 hours...~20k/month.   As of late Delta has been having trouble getting enough instructors, going as far as to have recruiting booths in pilot lounges.  I'd guess its the short Capt upgrade times, don't know for sure.  You can now get hired to teach in a plane you've never flown.

But it is an airline job.  And while I know people who have hid in the training dept for years and years, at some point you're probably going to have the fly the line.  Well, I guess you could go into some form of management.

I have trouble believing the highest paid guy at DL is a Sim IP. Just based on what I see some of the super senior guys pulling off on the line.  But I've been wrong before.

[tcf5566]

2020, not ALL FDX sim instructors are line guys, but a lot are. It's a pretty good deal, BUT you have to be ok with living in a Memphis suburb. (Or commute to fly the sim). They only have to work the same amount of days as a pilot on reserve, so 16 or 19 depending on the month, so definitely not a bad gig if you live there.

[SocialD]

11 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

I was under the impression that not all airlines run their sim jobs by plucking from their active line pilot list, plenty subcontracting and non-line-pilot employees abound in these jobs. Which is another way of saying: not all airline sim jobs are paid as well as those done by seniority list pilots (aka United).

What sputnik said below.  Agreed about the spirit of the thread, I was simply responding to a post.  Given that most people don't realize that there are decent gigs at the airlines, that are available to very junior pilots and keep you home a lot, I thought it was worth mentioning.  I've been here for < 3 years and there are around 40 sim instructors that are junior to me.  My sim partner, another FO at the 2 year point, and I were asked if we'd be interested in applying for sim IP jobs, when we went through 330 school earlier this year.  There are other lucrative gigs available, and currently going fairly junior, that are more office type jobs, if that's your thing.  However, I'll leave that to PMs or the other thread, so as not to derail this thread any further.  I'm actually enjoying reading about the other gigs guys are rolling into.

[HuggyU2]

On 9/25/2017 at 7:03 AM, SocialD said:

With a 20 year pension, I would opt for the sim job and do real estate on the side.  You can continue to relive the glory days of when you used to be a fighter pilot, but still have a nice supplemental income.  

Military simulator jobs pay fairly well.  I'm told by Navy friends that Hornet sim IP's at Lemoore make upwards of $175k.  Obviously, you're tied to living near that base.  If an 8-hour day working in/around the squadron appeals to you, it might be a good option.  

[Fud]

I left the USAF for numerous reasons, and am very glad I did.  The political correctness, SAPR training, and the focus on doing less with more was always prevalent and quite maddening.  I got out and had a job lined up as a financial advisor.  When the company told me they would not pay the original salary, but only give me commissions, I chose to vote with my feet.  It was a nice feeling, but it was also very stressful at the time.  I went on numerous job interviews and to numerous military/veteran related job fairs.  It was an interesting experience, but here is what I learned. 

1. Most of the job fairs you attend will just be to drop off your resume.  You need to focus on the events that have no-kidding interviews on site at the job fair.  The resume collectors were a waste of time.

2. Look into working overseas.  I thought about being a merchant mariner for a while and went through the process.  The money is great, and you get to travel.  However, all of the men I spoke with had been divorced at least once.  Not a great job for a family. 

3. Put your resume out everywhere.  I applied for over two hundred jobs on USAjobs.gov and got nowhere.  After receiving my VA disability rating, I was contacted by the Wounded Warrior Foundation's Recruit Military branch.  I was offered a high paying (all relative) job, with great benefits, and I love where I am living now.  Wouldn't change it for the world. 

There is life outside of the military, but the reserves keep trying to call me back because of the benefits.  I have nothing against the reserves, but if I couldn't fly, then I didn't want to do it.  I also found that numerous companies say they care about Veterans, but it is up to the individual to figure out what they truly want to do for a living. 

[uscmas412]

Bump...any new info?  The FY18 CSO bonus that excludes those with expired initial ADSC's may be the final piece of dumbassery I can bear.  

[pawnman]

11 hours ago, uscmas412 said:

Bump...any new info?  The FY18 CSO bonus that excludes those with expired initial ADSC's may be the final piece of dumbassery I can bear.  

Same thing they did last year.

[Swizzle]

How about the MyPers info on the AvB that talks about CSO's expired UPT commitment...and I'm pretty sure they're not talking about re-cat's...these are our Personnel'ists. Wonder if this typo will confuse a young FSS warrior into mismanaging someone?

Edited June 5, 2018 by Swizzle

[nunya]

Apparently my sarcasm wasn't clear.  I'll be more obvious.

FSS Airman Snuffy to a CSO trying to separate: "This memo says CSOs have UPT commitments; Table 1.69 says UPT commitment is 10 years; therefore, you have to stay in."

You know it'll happen in an FSS in a galaxy not far away.

Edited June 6, 2018 by nunya

[matmacwc]

34 minutes ago, nunya said:

CSOs have UPT commitments; Table 1.69 says UPT commitment is 10 years; therefore, I hope you navs don't want out earlier than 10 years.

You know it'll happen in an FSS in a galaxy not far away.

CSO's don't go to UPT?  Is this English.

[pawnman]

6 hours ago, nunya said:

CSOs have UPT commitments; Table 1.69 says UPT commitment is 10 years; therefore, I hope you navs don't want out earlier than 10 years.

You know it'll happen in an FSS in a galaxy not far away.

Not until they rename UNT to UPT.  But if we're sending CSOs to Undergraduate PILOT Training instead of Undergraduate NAVIGATOR Training, at least it will open some airline career options when they get out.